Help - Natwest have instructed capquest - large debt

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?332542-RBS-CapQuest

 

The link above is a CapQuest / RBS issue.. NW are, I think part of that group so the situation is similar to yours. Not a long thread, but might give you some ideas.

[fuzzel]

Hi CitizenB,

 

I didn't send that letter as I was without PC access for a few days and when I got back I had letters from capquest confirming that they had bought the debts from natwest. I have since received 2 further letters confirming that the debt has been bought. I was working on the assumption that this means it has been assigned or constitutes an assignation but I haven't actually had anything from Natwest confirming assignation. Does that matter or do the letters from capquest confirming they've bought it count as proof of assignation?

 

So far I have sent letters to the CRAs to get the hwole of my credit report to confirm the SB position. Today I intended sending a SAR to natwest and the CCA to capquest. Does that sound the best way forward yo you? Will the CCA letter prevent proceedings being raised unti they have complied with it?

 

Thanks

 

Fuzzel

[fuzzel]

Thanks for mentioning the other link too, I've already had a look through any capquest threads and that one was particualrly interesting because it is not SBed, as mine may prove not to be.

[citizenB]

Hello Fuzzel,

 

If you are happy that the letters you have received confirm that the account has been legitimately assigned, then you can follow the route you are most comfortable with. As I already said.. if CQ are really hell bent on starting litigating.. not having documents to hand will not stop them. They will most likely hope that you arent aware of procedures and bank on obtaining a judgment in default.

 

If they do decide to litigate, then you can put obstacles in their way using CPR (court procedure rules) and in order to ensure a level playing field, the case will most likely be stayed until they have complied.

[fuzzel]

To be honest I am not sure which route is best to take. My main goal is to staive off litigation until I can confirm the SB position (hopefully I will have records soon) and if it transpires that it is not SBEd then I probably will need to make payments each month as I cannot risk bankruptcy if they raise proceedings and if they do that I assume they would no longer be open to a monthly payment?

 

Am I right in thinking that the CCA letter prevents them from raising proceedings until they have complied with it?

 

Fuzzel

[citizenB]

Am I right in thinking that the CCA letter prevents them from raising proceedings until they have complied with it?

 

 

 

Fuzzel, I have answered this question several times.. If CQ are hell bent on litigation then they will start .. with or without the documentation. It is what they do. You would then be forced to request this document via CPR and until it was produced then the claim would be stayed.

 

I cant make it any different... sorry.

[fuzzel]

CitizenB,

 

apologies if I wasn't clear in my post. I understand what you are saying about them being able to raise proceedings without the AGREEMENT but what I was getting at was whether Capquest are prevented from raising proceedings until they have replied to the CCA LETTER, ie until they have comfirmed to me in writing whether or not they have or do not have the agreement. What I am trying to do is buy time, so if the letter does that because they are unable to litigate until they have responded to it, then it will serve a purpose for me, regardless of whether it turns out they have an agreement or not, if you see what I mean.

[fuzzel]

It also has some relevance as to whether they can raise proceedings against me I think - Jasper advised me that in Scotland (which is where they must sue me) they cannot raise proceedings without first attaching a valid copy of the consumer credit agreement.

[citizenB]

CitizenB,

 

apologies if I wasn't clear in my post. I understand what you are saying about them being able to raise proceedings without the AGREEMENT but what I was getting at was whether Capquest are prevented from raising proceedings until they have replied to the CCA LETTER, ie until they have comfirmed to me in writing whether or not they have or do not have the agreement. What I am trying to do is buy time, so if the letter does that because they are unable to litigate until they have responded to it, then it will serve a purpose for me, regardless of whether it turns out they have an agreement or not, if you see what I mean.

 

 

I am sorry fuzzel, you are asking the SAME question in a different way. My answer remains the same.

 

If CQ are hell bent on litigation then they will start .. with or without the documentation. It is what they do. You would then be forced to request this document via CPR and until it was produced then the claim would be stayed.

 

I will add that it will make absolutely no difference if you have sent the CCA letter and they havent responded.. All you could do is to raise that in your defence.

 

 

 

 

Actually, the rules are the same here.. a claim must have the documents forming the basis of the claim attached to the claim form.. except for when a claim is issued via Northampton Bulk Centre. Which is the method most of the creditors are using.

 

The regulation exemption which permits them to not attach documents when using Northampton Bulk centre does suggest that any documents should be sent separately as soon as possible.. However that very rarely happens and they have thus far got away with it.

[fuzzel]

CitizenB,

 

with respect, it isn't the same question at all - Raising proceedings without a consumer credit agreement is not the same as raising proceedings without having responded to a CCA letter from a potential defendant. I understand that they can raise proceedings without an agreement, but my question is can they raise proceedings without having responded to my CCA letter within the time provided by statute, which of course requires them to hunt around for an agreement to send me or to confirm that they do not have one.

[citizenB]

Ok, In which case, I am sorry I truly do not know.

[fuzzel]

ie, under statute, is it not an instant defence that they have failed to respond to a CCA letter at the date proceedings are raised as I have seen that said on these forums. Obviously I am less concerned if they raise and I have an instant defence to the action but if you are saying that they may raise without responding to the CCA letter then it goes against what I have read so far, so I am just looking for some clarity as my understanding from other threads was that if they do not reply to the CCA you have a defence.

[fuzzel]

Sorry citizen, posted last one before yours went up! I'm just hovering about here hoping for an answer before I go to the post office lol.

 

Thanks for your input on it. I think I will send the SAR letter to natwest and another to capquest (in case Natwest just say they have sent all info to Capquest) as well as a CCA letter to capquest. Hopefully I will have my full CRA records in a few days and it will be more obvious what approach I need to take with capquest.

 

Thanks again

[Frog Escalator]

With the CCA request, with regard to "correctly worded", does it contain these vital points (or words to the same effect)? --

 

• "I do not acknowledge this debt"
  
• -- if you make any reference to it in the letter, refer to "the above account" or "the alleged account", NOT "my account"
  
• "The £1 payment is the statutory fee for the CCA request and is not to be used for any other purpose"
  -- make it a postal order, not a cheque
  -- send the letter recorded delivery/signed for (of course)
  

 

Sorry if this is telling granny how to suck eggs, but ... these may all indeed be in the CCA request, but it's worth checking!

[Frog Escalator]

(may already be in, I mean)

[dx100uk]

failure to respond to a cca request will make no diff.

 

there is no bullet proof way of stopping them going to court.

 

end off.

 

sit on your hands

 

and TBH you should have sent that SAR 2 weeks ago.

would have been halfway there by now.

 

dx

[fuzzel]

Ok dx I appreciate your help but there's no need to keep putting me down by telling me what I should have done, especially when you advocated not doing it! - You told me on 30th Dec (11 days ago) in one of several similar posts, not to do anything at all, in response to another member's post suggesting I request info and drag things out (via a SAR etc)! It is only since receiving a PM from Jasper at new year in which he fully explained the legal rational behind it all that I understood that it would be ok to send a SAR to Natwest. My in-laws have been staying with us and our PC is in the lounge so I've been unable to look on the forum posts/set up the printer and type letters etc without them (and my partner) looking over my shoulder seeing it asking what I was up to. Apart from that, I was of the understanding that there was nothing to worry about re legal proceedings so long as Capquest had not yet bought the debt, which of course they now have. It's a bit harsh telling me off for not doing something 2 weeks ago that you said I shouldn't do in the first place, having all along said I should "sit on my hands and stop worrying"!

 

So, it is only now that I have managed to send a SAR letter and a CCA letter.

 

At the start of this thread you told me that I had nothing at all to worry about because the debt did not show on my experian "credit expert" credit report and therefore the debt must be dead, but you failed to tell me that the debt MIGHT APPEAR on the records of the other CRAs because the report did not cover info held me equifax or callcredit, and therefore that I need to recover reports from all of the main companies to be sure. You said and have continued to say that I should do NOTHING, despite me querying whether obtain the other reports just in case. What if equifax have a whole string of info on these accounts that show it is not SBed?

 

In your last post (and in very post since the start of the thread) you said to me to sit on my hands and do nothing, yet as desperate as I am to believe that will work you have yet to give me an explanation as to why that will be okay. How long to I sit on my hands for exactly? Until they raise proceedings? Once they have raised proceedings I will surely lose the ability to set up a monthly payment that I can afford as they will be up and running in court and may aswell seek decree for the whole sum owed. provided of course that it is not SBed (which I will confirm soon one way or the other) and that the debt has been properly assigned (which appears now to be the case).

 

My goal is - to avoid having court proceedings raised against me for the whole sum owed, when I could arrange a monthly payment and avoid a court judgement against me and possibly risk my home and bankruptcy etc. If I can do that by sitting on my hands then please please please EXPLAIN WHY how doing so will achieve that, when other posters on the forum have made it clear that capquest often send the "we've bought the debt letter" as a pre-cursor to raising court proceedings and often do raise proceedings.

 

BUT, if you think I should not be worried about going to court because I will win, and that is why you are telling me to sit on my hands, then please please EXPLAIN WHY I should have nothing to fear from proceedings being raised? YOu keep saying the DCA has no legal rights - but surely they do if natwest ASSSIGN their rights to them?

 

I am desperate for help and I don't want to be rude, but when it comes to the crunch, if capquest raise proceedings it will not be defence for me to tell the court that they have no case in law "because dx said so", so why is it that you are so confident about me doing nothing?

 

PLease don't be offended by me saying all this as I do appreciate you trying to help me by giving your advice, but I feel it's important to say that it's only helpful advice if you explain why it is good advice, rather than just giving a throw away comment like "sit on your hands" or "the DCA has no legal rights" without qualifying it.

 

Thanks

Fuzzel

 

Fuzzel

[fuzzel]

Frog escalator,

 

Cheers for your earlier post, I noticed it earlier before I went to the post office so I changed the letter slightly as the template did say "my account" on it a couple of times. I also checked it included the other words you suggested.

 

Fuzzel

[Frog Escalator]

Frog escalator,

Cheers for your earlier post, I noticed it earlier before I went to the post office so I changed the letter slightly as the template did say "my account" on it a couple of times. I also checked it included the other words you suggested.

Fuzzel

 

PHEW! If you'd left "my account" in, that could have reset the Statue Barred clock as direct acknowledgement of the debt!!!

Glad I got the comment in after all and that it was helpful -- even with my limited knowledge!

I am learning though, as we all are ...

 

Nice one!

[fuzzel]

yes the CCA one was worded ok but becasue the SAR letter template is geared towards the OC it did mention "my account a few times". I also made it clear at the top of that letter that "this letter in no way constitutes and acknowledgement or admission of this or any other debt" so hopefully that covers it.

 

I see some people say it is normal to send the SAR letter to the OC only whereas others have suggested it is sensible to send to the DCA also. I thought it made sense here to send to both since, having sold the debt to capquest, natwest may well just come back and say "we have nothing, we gave all the info to capquest when we sold it to them". Time will tell I suppose. Hopefully I will have a response to those and the CCA letter soon.

[Stigman]

Hi Fuzzel,

 

Glad you sent the CCA request to crappyquest, that will keep them busy for a few weeks minimum while you await your SAR.

 

When you receive your SAR, scan through the statements, that will easily show your last payment, if in 2006 it's already statute barred and just send them the statute barred template letter in the top tool bar entitled Library in green (Scotland version).

If 2007, it will be statute barred this year, when/if you get back your CCA request, remove all of your personal details including account numbers, full amounts and barcodes then attach and post so that people can advise you further.

 

If Capquest ring you, refuse to go through the security questions and say "in writing only" and hang up, do not be attempted to ring them as they will say anything that they will not commit to in writing and will only be saying it to get a payment out of you.

 

Until you hear back from either because you have requested the required documentation, just enjoy each day and don't worry.

 

Stigman

[fuzzel]

Thanks Stigman and mrsbucket.

 

Mrs bucket - I sent to the OC aswell, just in case they say they have passed all info to capquest.

[fuzzel]

Just an update,

 

today I received the 3rd set of letters from capquest confirming they had bought the two debts, loan and overdraft.

They have crossed with my CCA letter which I sent the other day.

 

What's odd is that the letters move back by almost a week the date by which I must get back to them before they "will not hesitate to utilise the legal system to its full extent".

It seems strange that they would send me the same letters 3 times, a week apart, and move the deadline each time.

Kind of suggests to me they may have nothing,

otherwise they would be saying "will take court action" by x date and stick to it.

 

Also worth noting is that to date I have only ever received a letter from Natwest saying that capquest are helping them recover the debt,

nothing yet to say they have sold it to capquest.

 

I supose if it has been assigned my SAR should come back with the info.

Even if it has,

Natwest have failed to tell me.

 

Fuzzel

[fuzzel]

What I don;t get though is that the letter allegedly from natwest saying capquest were assisting came from the CDR address and in a CDR envelope on the same day, so if they have instructions from natwest to print off such letters on their behalf, surely capquest would have printed off a letter from "natwest" saying they have sold to capquest.

 

Any thoughts?

[dx100uk]

well known for dca's to do that

typically they use it as another ruse to add some form of supposed

legitimacy to their spoofig tactics.

 

lets await that sar.

 

dx