Cap1 & CCA return

[alisindebt]

Hi

 

In daily express this morning in "your money2 it says a MBNA customer has had £8000 written off due to mistakes made when setting up the deal, the main grounds were that MBNA could not provide a copy of the original signed loan agreement. also there was a PPI elemant.

 

read @

 

Daily Express | Money | Breaking news, sport and showbiz from the World's Greatest Newspaper - updated 24/7

 

articule headed "Bank in dock over an £8-000 credit card bill"

 

Don't forget that the same happened to me, as reported elsewhere on CAG. They wrote off 10 500 pounds in my case, but I didn't make the Express!

[vint1954]

They started the action in Nov last year. They have not provided proof of this payment and their own documentation states they don't have the accounts, so it is difficult to see how they could possibly know a payment was made...

 

 

 

I haven't specifically applied for this under s77/78. I initially asked for proof of debt as I had no knowledge of this debt. I then used the CPR letter when they started legal action.

When do you think that the last payment was made?

 

They would need to proove it was made by you.

[vint1954]

Don't forget that the same happened to me, as reported elsewhere on CAG. They wrote off 10 500 pounds in my case, but I didn't make the Express!

Hi alisindebt,

 

What reason did the court give?

[alisindebt]

Hi alisindebt,

 

What reason did the court give?

 

I didn't go to court. I did a CCA request for one pound and the wrote back saying that the original agreement had been lost. They then got a letter of dispute from me and then wrote to close the account.

 

If you use the correct templates you don't need to go to court, they will back down.

 

My letters are recorded about this matter here on CAG if you do a quick search you will find them.

 

Also, somebody mentioned on here that it is does not set a precedent. I wouldn't be too sure about that.

 

The law already exists and is quite simple, so there is no reason for any o us to over egg the pudding:

 

No CCA means the agreement is unenforceable.

 

That's why we take the time to write here, to explain what has REALLY happended.

[AnimalMagic]

When do you think that the last payment was made?

 

They would need to proove it was made by you.

 

I have never made any payment on this account. The first I heard of this account was when they started chasing me for it! I have never had an account with MBNA, nor one with any other bank with the account number they are claiming under...

[vint1954]

I didn't go to court. I did a CCA request for one pound and the wrote back saying that the original agreement had been lost. They then got a letter of dispute from me and then wrote to close the account.

 

If you use the correct templates you don't need to go to court, they will back down.

 

My letters are recorded about this matter here on CAG if you do a quick search you will find them.

 

Also, somebody mentioned on here that it is does not set a precedent. I wouldn't be too sure about that.

 

The law already exists and is quite simple, so there is no reason for any o us to over egg the pudding:

 

No CCA means the agreement is unenforceable.

 

That's why we take the time to write here, to explain what has REALLY happended.

I think the poster meant that it does not set a legal precedent. They are correct when referring to Count Court claims. If there is no agreement, then the law is very specific. They cannot enforce. s127 (3)

[egg-sterminator]

Hi alisindebt,

 

What reason did the court give?

Hi Vint could you take a look at post #15890 for me . great work on cra's and oc's by the way .

[FlyboyAgain]

I didn't go to court. I did a CCA request for one pound and the wrote back saying that the original agreement had been lost. They then got a letter of dispute from me and then wrote to close the account.

 

If you use the correct templates you don't need to go to court, they will back down.

 

My letters are recorded about this matter here on CAG if you do a quick search you will find them.

 

Also, somebody mentioned on here that it is does not set a precedent. I wouldn't be too sure about that.

 

The law already exists and is quite simple, so there is no reason for any o us to over egg the pudding:

 

No CCA means the agreement is unenforceable.

 

That's why we take the time to write here, to explain what has REALLY happended.

 

 

Good point, for at which period - and that time will surely come - that courts become swamped by this stuff would it not be better to attempt to go after them direct? The evidence is begining to say 'yes'.

[42man]

Report to your local MP, FSA and OFT.....and possibly the SRA....!!

[alisindebt]

I agree, but this took 4 years of letters between them and me. So I could not be bothered with court-also i live abroad, but look at the next message belwo from the site team and my answer!

[alisindebt]

Report to your local MP, FSA and OFT.....and possibly the SRA....!!

 

Who are the SRA?

 

To clarify, I already reported elsewhere on CAG the success with MBNA/Abbey/Lowells and I am in the process of writing to all the organisations that you list, including details of underhanded techniques that were used by Lowells to try and recover this "unenforceable" debt over the last 5 years, such as the fact that it is still listed on my CRA files, also discussed elsewhere on here.

 

I have the same situation with CapQuest who just wrote off 4900 pounds, also two other Egg accounts.

 

The letters all go out in the next few days.

 

If there are any other places to write to, just let me know!

[alisindebt]

SRA, I now realise is the Solicitors Regulation Authority.

 

However, there were no solicitors involved, I did it all myself, so I don't think the SRA would be an option.

[42man]

I was replying to egg-sterminators post....

 

Just a little something you may be interested in my friend and fellow cagger professorgbr had a case being handled by a solicitor, under a cpr31.6 pre action request was sent an application with a little box of t&cs on the back claiming to be original . unfortunatly for them conditions numbers clearly do not match as related conditions refferred to are totally different . This was done under an afedavit by ccc's brief . Does this make it a more serious matter than their usual deceptions they get away with and who should it be reported to ? Ihave very similar case so dont want to name ccc just yet as they may do same thing again and we would have more evidence . O and by the way we have original cca's unsigned unsure where to post any caggers help here ?

[alisindebt]

OK, gotcha. By the way, I am still tackling Egg at the moment and in the case of an unsecured loan a similar thing seems to have happened. I got a CCA with all sports of prescribed T+Cs missing.

 

Then, I was sent a further printout of T+Cs apparently claiming to be copies of the originals, same thing as you report, the numbers did not match the original CCA referring to "our terms and conditions". They also used Citibank on there, my CCA dates back to 2003 and Citibank took over in 2005!

[FlyboyAgain]

Stop Press!! This just in from HBSC:-

 

BBC NEWS | Business | HSBC boss says banks owe apology

[vint1954]

Just a little something you may be interested in my friend and fellow cagger professorgbr had a case being handled by a solicitor, under a cpr31.6 pre action request was sent an application with a little box of t&cs on the back claiming to be original . unfortunatly for them conditions numbers clearly do not match as related conditions refferred to are totally different . This was done under an afedavit by ccc's brief . Does this make it a more serious matter than their usual deceptions they get away with and who should it be reported to ?

 

This will obviously have to be bought to the courts attention, but should also be subject of complaint to OFT and SRA.

 

Ihave very similar case so dont want to name ccc just yet as they may do same thing again and we would have more evidence . O and by the way we have original cca's unsigned unsure where to post any caggers help here ?

 

Have these come from the OC's following a CCA request? Basically no signature, then not enforcable. Best to start your own thread for each one.

[egg-sterminator]

I was replying to egg-sterminators post....

 

Just a little something you may be interested in my friend and fellow cagger professorgbr had a case being handled by a solicitor, under a cpr31.6 pre action request was sent an application with a little box of t&cs on the back claiming to be original . unfortunatly for them conditions numbers clearly do not match as related conditions refferred to are totally different . This was done under an afedavit by ccc's brief . Does this make it a more serious matter than their usual deceptions they get away with and who should it be reported to ? Ihave very similar case so dont want to name ccc just yet as they may do same thing again and we would have more evidence . O and by the way we have original cca's unsigned unsure where to post any caggers help here ?

thanks 42 man . The case was going through a big northern firm and apparantly the number of cases similar could be approaching the 100 mark ? the point is their soliciters didn't notice and folded the case . Now being a cagger and slighty scepical of ccc's a quick check revieled apr's didn't match and conditions referred to on application didn't match . Point being they have not checked these cases properly {and it went to their barrister} people are paying fees for poor and sometimes questionable advice when for just a small donation CAG delivers so much more . I have three cases with one of their briefs who's knowledge is far lower than a lot of caggers . Red flagging to them seems like doing their job for them . not red flagging it meens leaving a lot of people who have been let down by them in trouble believing their agreements are enforcable . By the way if you havn't had a look at Vint1954's thread on cra's and oc's well worth a look particulary in view of the recent poor case in london . Edited October 7, 2009 by egg-sterminator

[egg-sterminator]

Have these come from the OC's following a CCA request? Basically no signature, then not enforcable. Best to start your own thread for each one.

Ok Vint will do, they were on the back of an application but only filled a quarter page . He filled app in at a sevice station from a rip of pad .The conditions which he still has were on the card carrier .

[vint1954]

Ok Vint will do, they were on the back of an application but only filled a quarter page . He filled app in at a sevice station from a rip of pad .The conditions which he still has were on the card carrier .

They were stupid with their agreements. Their shoddy agreements are akin to a roofer not bothering with half the tiles:D

[AnimalMagic]

Wondered if anyone had a reference to a case more than a few months old, where 1st Crud has lost because they cannot show a valid agreement?

 

I think I may have enough evidence to show attempted fraud...

[littlefatbudha]

Can i ask a quick question without butting in, does a repalcement credit card, original lost, which now has different account no. have to have new agreement.THanks.

[vint1954]

Wondered if anyone had a reference to a case more than a few months old, where 1st Crud has lost because they cannot show a valid agreement?

 

I think I may have enough evidence to show attempted fraud...

Fraud would be dificult to prove, however attempting to mislead!

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Vint,

 

Is cutting and pasting with bits of the agreement missing fraud?

 

DD

[egg-sterminator]

Hi Vint,

 

Is cutting and pasting with bits of the agreement missing fraud?

 

DD

I think Vints point is knowing and proving are 2 different things . Imagine the resources these giants have at their disposal, alot of it due now to the taxpayer .

[vint1954]

Hi Vint,

 

Is cutting and pasting with bits of the agreement missing fraud?

 

DD

That could actually do it, however it will depend on whether or not they are saying, here is your actual agreement or here is a reconstruction.