Cap1 & CCA return

[patrickq1]

trading standards MAY start proceedings

plus this is an application

patrickq1

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi Dave

 

i can just make out one perscribed term and that the interest one.

 

If this is all they can produce in Court surely thay cant win:confused:

[Having_A_Knightmare]

trading standards MAY start proceedings

plus this is an application

patrickq1

 

Good point Patrick it is an application form.

[davefirewalker]

Hi Dave

 

i can just make out one perscribed term and that the interest one.

 

If this is all they can produce in Court surely thay cant win:confused:

 

I'd have thought so too...............until Pauls case...

 

it seems that sometimes judges arent interested in the law...they think that we are trying to get out of our commitments. Which may be true, but we have that right if the creditors dont follow the rules. It seems as though the creditors can write their own law at times, and pretty much do as they please. Well the CCA 1974 is the check and balance to stop them.

 

I hope you do well out of it, but be warned Barclays WILL take it to the wire.

 

they also have "guests" roaming this site to see what is going on...be warned

 

rgds

 

Dave

[un1boy]

I am right in thinking that the Prescribed terms MUST be on the same page as the signature aren't I?

 

If they are within the terms and conditions then the agreement is covered by sec 127(3)?

[car2403]

I am right in thinking that the Prescribed terms MUST be on the same page as the signature aren't I?

 

If they are within the terms and conditions then the agreement is covered by sec 127(3)?

 

The regs require them to be in the same document, but not necessarily on the same page.

[B3rty]

....and the DCA may sent these on separate sheets because thats how they receive them from the OC archives but they will need to prove that they are all contained in the same document...the only way is to show the original in court which is very doubtful and CPR 16 says

 

7.3 Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:

 

(1)a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing

[gyzmo]

Apologies for intruding and for raising something taht may have already been mentioned.

 

As for enforcement of agreements, the stipulation that a court cannot enforce an agreement in certain circumstances has been removed - meaning that even if there is no CCA, the court could still enforce the agreement (modified or not). Is this retrospective? I know i came about as a human rights issue (to a fair trial) and just wondered if that makes any difference?

[pford]

Apologies for intruding and for raising something taht may have already been mentioned.

 

As for enforcement of agreements, the stipulation that a court cannot enforce an agreement in certain circumstances has been removed - meaning that even if there is no CCA, the court could still enforce the agreement (modified or not). Is this retrospective? I know i came about as a human rights issue (to a fair trial) and just wondered if that makes any difference?

 

Only if it was signed after April 2007 before then the CCA act still stands as it was

[car2403]

....and the DCA may sent these on separate sheets because thats how they receive them from the OC archives but they will need to prove that they are all contained in the same document...the only way is to show the original in court which is very doubtful and CPR 16 says

 

7.3 Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:

 

(1)a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing

 

 

 

They do rely on the fact they issue through the Production Centre at Northampton - and CPR specifically states this rule doesn't apply to claims issued there, in that they DON'T have to attach the agreement to the POC but they DO still have to produce the original at a hearing.

 

They clearly rely on lesser mortals, that don't fully understand their rights and will usually cave in due to a lack of knowledge of consumer law, in the hope that they will either get Judgment by Default or Admission in cases where no agreement exists or has been provided.

 

This is where groups like CAG comes in, as we MUST spread the message that this SHOULDN'T be the case, and experienced claimants should be encouraged to share their experiences to provoke confidence in those less confident than themselves.

 

It's all under handed, but until this Government takes consumer protection seriously and acts accordingly, we're stuck with the system we have - and have to rely heavily on Judges that are far LESS experienced than some of the claimants that come before them to save our souls in the face of these unscrupulous lenders.

[spidey41]

just recieved my cca from lloyds tsb they are threatening me with court action for £4500 the credit act i signed states credit limit of £500 as i never signed any other agreements when credit limit went up or cards were reissued will this stand up as my defence in court any help please ?

[BigBadCAGBagger]

The quick answer, not at all.

 

You need to see whether or not the agreement you signed conforms to the Consumer Credit Act. If you could scan it and post it into a new thread and then put a link to this thread you will get the best response.

[spidey41]

the agreement they sent me is so blury it is unreadable the other odd thing is where i signed it it is signed in the date column with no date on it which i normaly dont do it is my signiture though

[ncf355]

The copy they send has to be legible otherwise they do not comply

 

As said above, if you scan it we can start to try and help you

[ncf355]

....and the DCA may sent these on separate sheets because thats how they receive them from the OC archives but they will need to prove that they are all contained in the same document...the only way is to show the original in court which is very doubtful and CPR 16 says

 

7.3 Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:

 

(1)a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing

 

 

 

 

Hi Barty

 

just looking at this - cant find it at CPR 16?

[pt2537]

PRACTICE DIRECTION – STATEMENTS OF CASE - This practice direction supplements CPR Part 16

 

Practice Directions 7.3 Matt;)

[spidey41]

honestly there is no point in scanning it it is small and blurry and unreadable even being enlarged it is still a blurry mess

[car2403]

PRACTICE DIRECTION – STATEMENTS OF CASE - This practice direction supplements CPR Part 16

 

Practice Directions 7.3 Matt;)

 

Congrats on the Mod status Paul - I can't think of any other member that is more deserving of that status on here!

 

Keep up the good work, matey!

[ncf355]

D'oh!

 

Cheers Paul

 

And may I 2nd Car's statement!

[ncf355]

honestly there is no point in scanning it it is small and blurry and unreadable even being enlarged it is still a blurry mess

 

That being the case you need to write back and tell them they have not fulfilled their obligations

[ian1969uk]

This stuff about the original being needed is not as clear cut as we might like to think, and I know of one case recently where a judge allowed enforcement on a copy document simply because the creditors swore it was a true copy of the original.

 

The CPRs seem to suggest that the original is needed in Court but look at Section 8 of the Civil Evidence Act 1995:

 

Proof of statements contained in documents

 

(1) Where a statement contained in a document is admissible as evidence in civil proceedings, it may be proved—

 

(a) by the production of that document, or

 

(b) whether or not that document is still in existence, by the production of a copy of that document or of the material part of it, authenticated in such manner as the court may approve.

 

(2) It is immaterial for this purpose how many removes there are between a copy and the original.

 

 

Now, what this means is that a Court may accept a copy for enforcement as long as it is satisfied as to the creditor's methods of archiving.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

The regs require them to be in the same document, but not necessarily on the same page.

 

When they say document would you say the signature page would have to be the last page.

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Is this thread showing up in your subscribed threads link??

[spidey41]

right here goes page 1 hope you have more luck reading it than me

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Spidey there to small