Bong v HSBC *Contractual Interest & 13yr claim**WON!!!**

[Guest bong]

sure is mate. am I allowed to talk about it on my thread do you think? sorry photoman, i'm only joking -couldn't resist. forgive me I am truly a devil at heart. no doubt lloyds will settle that one but thinking about it I'm sure they will have to rethink their strategies for these claims as a result of this.

[mcuth]

Looks good to me

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[Ian Appleby]

Hi Bong,

I'm sure you will be lucky and i have everything crossed for you.Do you know of a preliminary letter that includes the wording for claiming back the compound interest?.I am getting my claim in the post this week,i am claiming from 2001 to 2006,So do i use the consumer act 1995 quote?.The account was opened before 1995.The xmas break has put me back a few steps and i need to get my head around the process again.I really hope this works out for you,because in my mind it will be a new landmark and a new sight to set to for others.

Cheers Ian

[Guest bong]

Hi Ian, as your account was opened before 1995 you do not rely on the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 in your claim. However I've looked again at the prelim letter in the library (seems a long time since I had to send one of those) and it doesn't make reference to the regs so that is ok. Bear it in mind though for when you have to file your claim and complete your particulars of claim.

 

I don't know of a template letter for the contractual interest but you could try adapting my letter (see post 12 on the first page of this thread) or see if there are any other examples around in other threads. I think Mindzai had posted up his letter in his Lloyds thread.

 

Hope that helps

[Ian Appleby]

Thanks Bong your always a great help .

[TANZARELLI]

Hi Ian, as your account was opened before 1995 you do not rely on the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 in your claim. However I've looked again at the prelim letter in the library (seems a long time since I had to send one of those) and it doesn't make reference to the regs so that is ok. Bear it in mind though for when you have to file your claim and complete your particulars of claim.

 

I don't know of a template letter for the contractual interest but you could try adapting my letter (see post 12 on the first page of this thread) or see if there are any other examples around in other threads. I think Mindzai had posted up his letter in his Lloyds thread.

 

Hope that helps

 

Hi bong, what if the account was opened before 1995 but then ran into and after 1999 when the UTCCR 1999 came into play, why can't you then refer to this as part of you later claim, if you see what I mean.? I know it would not have relevance to pre its existence but if you have a big claim say 1990-2001 for example surely it has some relevence to 1999-2001 charges. Just a thought, and a point worth considering when writing out POC's for example with the wording.

 

Or am I right on the wrong track here?

 

Tanz

[Guest bong]

Hi tanz, they wouldn't apply even to the later years of your claim because they only refer to contracts entered into since 1 July 1995.

[TANZARELLI]

Hi tanz, they wouldn't apply even to the later years of your claim because they only refer to contracts entered into since 1 July 1995.

 

Ahh i see Grasshopper.

 

Thanks

 

Tanz

[Guest bong]

Nothing in the post for me still

 

I just phoned the court to find out if my application had been accepted. she said it was received and would take 5 - 10 working days to process. She also said my AQ went up to the judge on 4th Jan and hadn't come back yet. I'm gettin impatient. always was actually.

[vicmar]

hi bong just wondered how you are getting on i haven't heard anything yet is it worth phoning the court i hand delivered my AQ 29th dec and posted a copy of the schedule on the 2nd jan i use the copy post in AQ track/ forum heres hoping

[Guest bong]

vicmar the only reason I phoned the court was to find out about my application. I think in your case it wouldn't be necessary to phone the court unless you didn't hear from them with your hearing date after say another 7 - 10 days from now.

[vicmar]

vicmar the only reason I phoned the court was to find out about my application. I think in your case it wouldn't be necessary to phone the court unless you didn't hear from them with your hearing date after say another 7 - 10 days from now.

 

Hi bong do you think it is worth emailing debbie to check progress i have read in other posts they have to check progress and it seems to help or is it better phoning?

[Guest bong]

hi vicmar, yes you could do either - whichever you feel most comfortable with I'd say.

[RedDeath]

Hey Bong,

Just read your letter, certainly well drafted, however, I did not notice any reference to the actual amount you wish to charge. Should this be included (or maybe you already have and its in a draft version)?

 

I take it you are charging the full 29.8%, so i would imagine you may want to point that out in the letter (i.e. you deem the contract to be mutual, as such you wish to claim 29.8% interest as you did not authorise penalty charges and so on.).

 

Also, this is some text i found in someone's thread (sorry if you recognise it and don't get credit, it was copy and paste job a while back).

 

- There is an implied term of contract that the customer can charge the bank at the same rate which the bank allows itself to charge the customer in similar circumstances.

- Under such a term interest due to the customer is calculated at [unauthorised overdraft rate]% per year. Ergo, interest at said rate due to the customer amounts to £[AMOUNT] plus £[daily amount] per additional day; or

- if customer isn't allowed to charge such a rate, then customer can charge interest at the authorised overdraft rate. Under such a term interest is [authorised overdraft rate]% per year. Ergo, interest at said rate due to the customer amounts to £[AMOUNT] plus £[daily amount] per additional day; or

- if customer isn't allowed to charge either rate to the bank then customer is allowed to charge the bank interest pursuant to s69 County Courts Act 1980 (date?). Interest under the 1980 Act is 8% per year. Ergo, interest at said rate due to the customer amounts to £[AMOUNT] plus £[daily amount] per additional day.

 

Think it could be helpful to cover your back. Then tie it in to say that you want the case struck out and you to be awarded the 29.8%. I feel that if courts are now looking at this with a view to strike out, it might mean we can sneak a little more in! ;-)

[vicmar]

hi bong thanks for reply sent email last night but i recieved a letter today offering full amount (less current court charges for AQ) how is your claim going?

[Guest bong]

sorry reddeath, which letter are you referring to?

[photoman]

Bong,

Just wondering if you would like to take a peek at a new thread I have started, and I hope will become a worthwhile debate.

Already had a fair few of the regulars visit and comment there and I think you opinion and input would be valuable.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/57491-wear-your-bulletproof-vest.html

[RedDeath]

The letter 2 pages back, the one I take you are sending to the courts. Maybe I am suffering from sleep depravation, will check back tomorrow.

[the_final_straw]

Bong, help!!

 

I've looked everywhere and cant find a template for claiming the compound interest. I've modified your POC and come up with this (see below). I'm not going back further than 6 years. Do you reckon this POC is OK or would you suggest any alterations?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

• The Claimant has an account XXXXXX ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around March 1996

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

4. The Claimant contends that:

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

c) The claimant claims compound interest on the amounts claimed - using the rate and method specified in the said contract, and applied by the defendant to monies it is owed. A schedule of the interest calculated is annexed to the Particulars of Claim at pages 3 & 4.

The claimant’s ground for seeking restitution of the compounded contractual rate of interest is that the defendant would be unjustly enriched if the claimant's entitlement was limited to the statutory rate of interest in that the defendant has had use of the sums and would have used these sums to re-lend at commercial compounded rates.

d) Alternatively, if the court decides that the claimant is not entitled to the contractual rate of interest, then the claimant claims interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984. A schedule of the interest calculated is annexed to the Particulars of Claim at pages 5 & 6.

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

a) The return of £1435.50 taken by the defendant in charges and interest applied on the charges between 06/10/2003 and 05/09/2006 of £184.82.

b) Court fees

c) Compound interest at the contractual rate of 15.9% AER from 06/10/2003 to 13/01/2007 of £1,283.89, and also interest compounded at the same percentage rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment.

d) In the alternative to c, interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year, from 06/10/2003 to 13/01/2007 of £485.97 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of 36p.

e) Court costs;

f) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act as set out on the attached list of charges or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

6. Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act (1982).

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

[Guest bong]

hi tfs, I'm sorry I have to admit that I haven't checked it all in great detail, I've got a bug at the moment with headache thanks to my lovely son who has been off school with it, and its hard to concentrate on the screen but my only observations are that you wouldn't need 5f as well as 5d and I think 6 needs to be slotted in above 5.

 

HTH

[Guest bong]

well I've found out that I've got a hearing date of 27 April but the court clerk couldn't tell me what the order was because it went out directly from their bulk typing centre on Friday. They've banked my application fee so I'm hoping its in relation to my strike out application. I'll update as soon as I get it!!!

[livelylad]

well I've found out that I've got a hearing date of 27 April but the court clerk couldn't tell me what the order was because it went out directly from their bulk typing centre on Friday. They've banked my application fee so I'm hoping its in relation to my strike out application. I'll update as soon as I get it!!!

 

 

Best of luck.

[mooreda]

All the best - I hope all goes well - keep us posted

[chezt]

Fingers tightly X'd for you ... GOOD LUCK!

[bill-k]

All the best with that one Bong.

 

Knife - stone - paper ? Which one wins ?

 

Paper every time with the Origami champ !!