Marston Bailiff Visits with invisible distress warrant for unpaid criminal fine

[birde1978]

Hi

Wonder if somebody could give me some advice relating to a bailiff visit on 6th September 2011

 

At approx 9.30am my partner was waking me up she informed me that there was a bailiff sat outside and wanted to speak with me.

I went outside to find out what was going on the bailiff informed me that he had a distress warrant and wanted full payment or was going to take my goods.

 

I asked to see such warrant to which he said he didnt have to show it to me so i told him to sling his hook to which he replied i will call a lock smith then showed me his ID badge.

 

I told him to call a lock smith then good luck to them as my door is reinforced to prevent any tomcat burglar from coming along and breaking into my house.

 

I couldn't wait for the lock smith to arrive to watch, Was going to record it would of been funny

 

Anyway the bailiff decided to call the police instead so they arrived young single copper on his own explained to him that i was not letting the bailiff in on my own free will after the bailiff flashing his ID card again to the police officer he told me in front of the officer that he forgot to mention earlier that preventing him from his duty i was committing a criminal offense the police officer said nothing about what he had said as i ****ed myself with laughter

Anyway after the officer and the bailiff had a word the officer told me that by not complying with him i was causing a breach of the peace to which i was forced to let him in to which the officer stayed till he was in my door then left.

Inside the bailiff took an inventory of goods didnt mount to much i would of gladly paid him to take the goods he wanted the 100 pound that was on my kitchen side and then wanted 100 pound a month he filled out this notice of distress which i have attached to my post to view.

 

When he left i just put it down to sods law and the fact you cant win them all.

Until i was looking on the forum the other night and came across by chance a post relating to bailiffs and how some ****** bailiff had treated them unfairly, So i decided to check my info in relation to threads left and to my surprise firstly notice the police officer had no right to get involved and threaten to arrest me for not complying.

 

I ring the court named on the notice of distress which you will see is pontypridd to which they tell me they have never heard of me let along a distress warrant being issued they even go as far as checking gwent magistrates to which again nothing i was advised they don't use marston group only excel and swift, I was then told to take legal advice as nothing they could do for me.

 

I contacted the ministry of justice to check the bailiffs certificate to which they could not find this bailiff on there register, So i contacted marstons and kindly asked for confirmation that the bailiff was certificated to which after being put on hold for ages the lady came back and told me he was i asked in which court was this certificate granted to which she said she didn't know and would ring me back after speaking with this bailiffs manager to which she didn't.

I took advice briefly to find also that the police are responsible for viewing this distress warrant as he could be anyone but didn't bailiff just flashed his ID card at him and they become bosom buddies.

 

The dates represent a time in Devon criminal fine i had moved and didn't pay and can only assume the distress warrant has come from there but notice says pontypridd???

 

I really wanted to see a copy of this alleged distress warrant as i understand after 180 days it becomes void if all was in order with the paperwork there shouldn't of been a problem to show it to me upon asking him, Is that correct that he does not have to show it to me???

 

Also the goods he marked up would of nowhere near covered the balance he was asking not even if he sold them 10 times over, I was advised that the warrant i didn't see should of been sent back as goods don't cover it?? Is this correct???

 

I have today rang my local police station to make a formal complaint and advised a Sargent will ring me today but didn't bother, I know they can be busy so will wait or ring them back.

Apart from the complaint i don't really know where i go from here in relation to this threads i have read are of similar nature but not my circumstances so would much appreciate your advice.

 

Thanks for reading and sorry if i have bored you to death

 

Birde

 

Edited September 20, 2011 by citizenB
Have popped in some spacing to make reading easier

[dx100uk]

your spelling and grammer are bad!

 

i'm not sure on the time line of expiry

but

 

as its was a criminal fine

 

yes he did have right of entry and could have forced entry too.

 

there are several cag newsletters of recent to read

 

as well threads too here as you have done and dont forget the stickies

not exactly my game

 

but me thinks you need to pay what is owed, else prison could not be that far away.

 

dx

the troops will be here in the morning.

 

thread renamed as well

[birde1978]

Ha ha thanks dx

Spelling/grammar never been my strong point, Well talking thats another subject altogether.

appreciated with name change sums it.

 

Birde

[citizenB]

There are lots of stickies in the bailff forums that will probably have information on what you can do next. If you dont get any where with telephoning your police station. Perhaps a letter in the form of an official complaint will do the trick

[ploddertom]

This may apply to you. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?165753-MAGISTRATE-COURT-FINES.-Template-of-a-Statutory-Declaration.

 

PT

[birde1978]

Quick Update

Rang the court involved distress warrant issued in October 2010 was never renewed.

I have read many interesting posts on the 180 day rule for returning un-executed warrants back to the courts

Bailiff has argued 12 months for criminal fines saying his warrant ends in Dec 2012?????

I have looked on hmcs and came across this SPECIFICATION FOR PRIVATE ENFORCEMENT PROVISION

Which clearly state in 6.13 that its 90 days but i know from reading around been increased to 180days.

I cant help feeling i am being shafted Why should my warrant and any dealings with it be any different.

The rules are the rules.

Surely any fees incurred in this matter are invalid??

Go back to the bailiff i keep being told as he is dealing with it but when i do he knows no other words as an explanation other than Locksmith and Payment!!

Any thoughts on this as to me whats the point of having rules if companies like marston can just ignore them??

 

Birde

[brassnecked]

All Marstons want at this stage are their fees, and a little matter of rules which they will ignore if they can extract payment, is of no consequence to them imho. I am not sure as to the 180 day expiry, perhaps tomtubby will have a definitive answer.

[ploddertom]

Try sending a PM to Tomtubby for the correct answer to this.

 

PT

[birde1978]

Hi

Thanks for your reply.

Its the posts from Tomtubby i have got this information on after reading around the forum.

Surely are consumer rights and the wrong doings of companies like Marston should be fought for rather than backing down to making payments to them over few months that's easy way out what about the wrong doings do i just blatantly let them get away with it.

Or do i stand up and fight for my rights and do whatever it takes to deal with it??

What about the next person this bailiff visits does he carry out what he has always done or learn from previous jobs and see people wont and will not back down if there in the wrong.

Its time to break the trend and make some noise any help

 

Birde

[caledfwlch]

your spelling and grammer are bad!

 

i'm not sure on the time line of expiry

but

 

as its was a criminal fine

 

yes he did have right of entry and could have forced entry too.

 

there are several cag newsletters of recent to read

 

as well threads too here as you have done and dont forget the stickies

not exactly my game

 

but me thinks you need to pay what is owed, else prison could not be that far away.

 

dx

the troops will be here in the morning.

 

thread renamed as well

 

According to the experts on just about every other thread we have involving fines, the Bailiff needs a specific, seperate warrant of entry signed by a judge to force entry. His normal warrant of execution does not allow him.

 

Otherwise the first time you know you have Bailiff's on your case is when the bailiff's collecting fines smash their way through your front door or window.

 

I suggest the OP report the Police officer to police complaints and do his best to get him sacked, and contemplate civil action for financial remedy due to the officers actions, stepping well outside his legal duties - refusing a Bailiff entry is not breach of the peace. He stepped outside his duty.

[dx100uk]

i was always under the impression that criminal fines held right of forced entry, unlike ctax stuff.

 

as i said, legal is not my game..........

 

dx

[brassnecked]

i was always under the impression that criminal fines held right of forced entry, unlike ctax stuff.

 

as i said, legal is not my game..........

 

dx

 

Not sure myself DX, but I thought they coudln't force entry on a first visit, and would need a specific warrant from the court to do so on a subsequent visit. I am going to research this one to satisfy myself, but for a more immiediate, and likely definitive answer, tomtubby's our girl.

[birde1978]

Quick Update:

 

Ok so i said i would fight and that's exactly what i have done.

The warrant is now on hold pending multiple of serious complaints i will be making.

I did not mention in last update about the recording of all calls this has been invaluable in my situation.

I understand there is an organisation which i cant name will not only investigate my complaint but will be looking into more wider things.

I will come back and let you all know very soon along with the edited audio clips to show how serious this situation turned out in the last few days.

 

At 2.50pm the bailiff rang with threats of locksmith and the fact i will be paying and the levy was still valid but by 3.15pm he was ringing back to explain all he ever had was my familys best interests at heart i do understand that his manager has had a word in between regarding the telephone call he had with two organizations.

Sorry i can not be more specific but i will put everything up once i have got it sorted to show others and hopefully others may benefit from my experience.

 

Birde

[dx100uk]

10/10

 

birdie

 

dx

[brassnecked]

Excellent

[missy2010]

Hi all

A bailiff executing warrants of distress(magi fines) does not need to carry a warrant. Even if he was carrying a warrant, it would only be a company facsimile of the original warrant. The original would be held at the relevant enforcement office. The least the bailiff should have done is show you the facsimile, or tell you the warrant could be viewed during office hours at the enforcement office.

 

The bailiff is allowed to force entry without prior levy if the following conditions are met:

1. the debtor is in and refusing access.

2. the bailiff has had permission from the magistrate to force entry(can be done over the phone)

3. the bailiff has passed a training course to satisfy the magi that he is able to safely carry out the warrant in this manner

 

If you refuse to allow the bailiff access you are doing nothing wrong, but if you try to STOP the bailiff entering then you commit a breach of the peace as the bailiff has the legal right to enter.

 

If you paid the bailiff, did he give you a receipt. The ref no. should be on the receipt. If you contact the office with that ref no., they will give you the magi courts ref no and tell no. You can then speak to the magi about appeals process.

 

The fine only expires after 180 days for the bailiff enforcing it, but the bailiff may request a 1 month extension. If the bailiff fails to collect, the warrant then may be passed to another enforcement company to attempt to collect.

 

Its a CRIMINAL fine. They do not expire. If nobody can collect on the warrant, then it is returned as appropriate and the magi courts then deal with it. Usually by a summons or a warrant for your arrest issued. Failing to pay a magi fine is another criminal offence in itself which can, and often does, lead to a custodial sentence.

[missy2010]

p.s i hope you get it sorted, this case does sound somewhat dubious. Usually, once a warrant is returned, we are not allowed to contact debtors, so something deffo smells with this one.

[birde1978]

Thanks

 

Got some more info will post up.

Edited October 25, 2011 by birde1978

[birde1978]

Anyone know how to properly upload images on here??

Keep coming out to small.

[birde1978]

Thanks for your comments guys

Ok so had a response from the court with my complaint.

Have attached the edited letter for your viewing.

Yes point (2) that is true recorded on tape bailiff offered me to come to his house after working hours to view the distress warrant.

Point (3) bailiff was never certificated in the court he said he was from seems when court sent me there final response to my complaint they didnt bother to check his claims out so sent an embarrassing letter giving them the details of the actual court he was certificated at and the telephone number to confirm it. also asking them to explain why they have not investigated my complaint properly???

 

I will be taking my complaint further as there is more questions to ask than before.

 

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j429/distress2/complaintedited.jpg