Help please, very bad situation

[Enchiridion]

I'm intrigued that Nystagmite and Old-CodJA place such weight on its being your responsibility to ensure that you have enough money on your Oystercard. This fails to recognise the unique nature of the Oystercard and the lack of fungibility with cash. If I look at an Oystercard, I can't tell how much money is on it. I can with cash. Admittedly if I look at my credit card I can't tell how much my credit balance is. But if I were to hit the balance for some transaction, I could supplement my payment with another credit card or with cash. This is what makes credit on a credit card fungible with cash. By contrast, with an Oystercard not only can you not tell by looking at it how much the balance is, you can't supplement a payment by making the rest of the payment in cash. This lack of fungibility is masked by the practice of recording the balance on an Oystercard in pounds and pence. It's as though it is ordinary cash. But it isn't. Perhaps the balance should be recorded in Borises. I've got a balance of 8 Borises on my Oystercard. Nice ring to it?

 

Seriously though, I should like to know what would have happened to bigfluffy if everrything else had been the same except that the balance on the Oystercard had been £8.

[bigfluffy]

It turns out for 1 of the times I have to go to court now, and probebly for the other time a well. I am just wondering what are likelihoods that people go to prison for this, especialy for 2 fines? what are the other alternatives? i really cannot afford to pay alot of money, is there any way to let them know this? I am not a criminal or a bad person, i work but i only have a part time job and get 113 pounds a week, which goes fully on my rent and phone bill and travel.

 

I am a student living away from home in London, which as you can imagine is very expensive. I just about have enough money for rent, transport and food let alone other things. The basic details are on the 1st time, i thought i had topped my card up online, but the laptop battrey died, and i did not know that you had to activate it at a tube station anyway so it would not have gone on my card to start. The bus was packed (it was a bendy) and as i am quite short it took me a while to get to the oyster card beeper. I tapped it whilst in my wallet but i could not see as the people were in the way. The doors were shut and as it went 1 stop the guy came on, said i had no money and took my details down, he was threatening about it and was a very big guy (tattoos, shaven head, earrings) as you can imagine i was quite intimidated. The 2nd time i did have money on my card, tapped it when it was on my wallet but what i didnt know is that it did not register, the bus was busy again (it does get busy on that bus) and i was on the phone to my mother who was upset, as my dad had lost his business (which means i cannot loan any money off himto help with my living costs) so i sat down. The people said i had no money, there was 6 of them, all big guys (seems like they employ big guys). This time i said i had money and he saw that, and i said i would tap it for the journey, he said no and i pleaded (as i was going through hard times personally and at home), and he just kept saying no. i was standing by the door and he got closer to me so i nearly fell off the bus. i was quite upset and angry as i did not undertsand why i couldnt tap it on then and just travel onwards. The 1st time i did offer to pay at the door for a ticket, and then he refused that aswell. I think this is unfair as i did not intend to do this on the bus, it was an honest mistake. I am very scared and nervous about going to court, my dad has been very mentally unstable and depressed since my grandad died and is currently in hospital, and i have not even told him, as i feel it might send him over. He does not work anymore and my mum does but she has to essentially provide for 4 kids now,.

 

 

Please someone help! What are the chances they will send me to prison? What is the fine going to be for this? Has anyone been to court before? Do they take into account personal finances? I have proof of all this! Is there a community service option? I m very worried and nervous about this! Help please!

[SRPO]

Prison is reserved as a last resort for these types of offences, based on what have said I would gladly put money on you not getting sent to prison.

[bigfluffy]

What do you think will happen? i know some one that got sent to prison in the riots for stealing 2 beers they got sent for 18 months! the judges are going to be harsh! im not a criminal though, i have never been in trouble before. i moved to london not long ago, do not like travelling on the tubes and i found these buses confusing at first when i first moved to london ( i though a ticket person comes to take money when you are on the bendy buses, and never had an oyster card before!!!). i really cannot afford to pay much of a fine, as my student loan and job will cover my rent, phone, travel, and cannot borrow money off of my parents. but the thing is they will see it happened twice and they are quite harsh sometimes the judges i think!!! i honesty feel that i should have been able to tap my card on the 2nd time because i have money it was hard to see and reach the beeper and the guy would not let me, i think they are quite mean some of these people that do the ticket inspections, but obviously that is their job and they might be instructed to take a no prisoner attitude. i just hope that the judge will see my side of the story, that it was a human error and everybody makes these and i did not intend to travel without paying!!! i honestly hopes he sees this. i think the first one might be bad because the guy put in the statement i said 'this is pathetic i pay your wages', i did say that but took it back it was in the heat of the moment and i even said to him no i do not pay your wages, which funnily he did not write down.

 

I am just very scared about going to prison i am in my last year at university, and i really cannot afford to pay alot of money. i did not intend to do this, i even offered to pay there and then and tap my card. what do you guys think will happen? has anyone had any experiance? sorry i am just very worried

[SRPO]

Do you pay his wages?

[Old-CodJA]

In the words of 'Corporal Jones'..........Don't panic......Don't panic..!!

 

Seriously, this is a first, relatively minor offence in the scheme of criminality.

 

If it goes to Court and you plead guilty by post, send a truthful statement of your means and write an apology, asking for time to pay any fine etc. the Magistrates will take all of that into consideration. You will not be going to prison.

 

Before it gets that far you can still try to get the company to settle it through administration, but it certainly isn't likely to go away free of charge.

[bigfluffy]

hello, i am just wondering what is the better/cheaper option? I have 1 court appearance about a bus fine, the lady from tfl emailed me and said i could settle it out of court which woud have been an on the spot 250 pound payment, which me or my family could not afford, or if i go to court and am found guilty she said it could be cheaper if i can prove i dont have enough income and money, which i can do easily. at the moment i am a student, have a 1250 pound overdraft on my card i had to take out for my rent, and have a job that just about covers rent and phone and transport. what will the likely cost be in court and how do they work it out? will it be more or less?

 

also i heard their can be a prison sentence, as i have another 1 most probably coming up will that happen? the 2nd one was not my fault, as i could not get to the beeper in time as the bus was bus and had 2 pounds on my card, went 1 stop |(15 seconds) and the guy hauled me off even though i said i will tap it? will they consider a prison sentance? or another fine? there is no way i can afford it! i think it is quite harsh they fine people ridiculous amounts of money, especialy when on both times i said i will tap my card there and then to proove i had the money on the card! please help!

[honeybee13]

Hello bigfluffy. In case it helps the people trying to help you, I'm guessing your question relates back to your other thread here. Am I right?

 

My best, HB

[sailor sam]

Your post does not give us much to go on to be honest. You would need to tell us exactly what the circumstances were that you incurred the 'court appearance'. What I can say is that it is unlikely you would get a prison sentance unless you are a persistant offender. Before the hearing, you will be given a financial 'means' form to complete which wthe mags will consider when working out your fine.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[bigfluffy]

yeah my post relates to my other one.

 

and isnt 2 persistent offending? thats the thing, they can be quite harsh and i know for sure the tfl inspecters are very harsh (a bit too much in my opinion)

 

basically the jist of the 2 offences where the same, beeped my card but it was in my wallet, could not get to the beeper as the bus was busy so stuck my arm out, many people were beeping so heard a lot of noises. Both times i had offered to pay for the ticket and tap my card again but they refused. I think they might put me to prison as this is the 2nd time it has happened, plus i had to pay a 25 pound fine once before, so 3 really,. thing is i am not a cirminal or a repeat offender, it was human error, and everybody makes these. i pay for the bus always when i get on and make sure i do!

[bigfluffy]

Do you pay his wages?

 

Nope, tfl or whoever employ him do, i said it out of spite, then apologized straight away.

[maroondevo52]

Two threads merged.

 

bigfluffy please continue to post here regarding this issue.

 

Thanks.

 

Scott.

[bigfluffy]

thanks! can people please help! I am very nervous about it! is 2 times getting caught persistent offending?

[Old-CodJA]

thanks! can people please help! I am very nervous about it! is 2 times getting caught persistent offending?

 

Are you saying that you have a previous conviction at a Court for a rail fare related offence as well as recieving a Penalty Fare, or are you just referring to this one current matter and a previously paid £25 Penalty Fare notice?

[bigfluffy]

Nope, i have not had a previous before. I am referring to the penalty notice and the 1 i have to go to court for, and the other one that happened where i had money on my card and he wouldnt let me tap it! Isn't 3 times persistant (even if it wasn't my fault and intention to do this)? Will they send me down? I am going into my 3rd year at university aswell! I am really worried about this!

[SRPO]

Nope, i have not had a previous before. I am referring to the penalty notice and the 1 i have to go to court for, and the other one that happened where i had money on my card and he wouldnt let me tap it! Isn't 3 times persistant (even if it wasn't my fault and intention to do this)? Will they send me down? I am going into my 3rd year at university aswell! I am really worried about this!

 

No they wont send you down, it will be either a fine or a conditional discharge.

[rambo]

When you touch your oyster on the wayfarer, the display tells you if you have not got enough money on your card, so no excuse...........

[Old-CodJA]

The court can only take account of any previous conviction in relation to sentencing, but might be told that you had had a previous warning, because that is what the penalty fare would be regarded as.

[bigfluffy]

Hello, I am just wondering what is the likely outcome for a max fine or prison sentence? I am a law abiding citizen and a respectable person.

 

I have to go to court for 1 bus offence and most probably for another, however I do feel in these I was treated badly as i had money on my card, tapped it and thought nothing of it, and sat down, obviously not knowing it did not go through, when i got caught the guys were very rude and wouldnt let me tap it again so now i have to go to court. Most of the revenue people are actually very nice on route 29, they talk and you can have a laugh with them, however some are completely rude and horrible people. The guys that got me were very very rude and arrogant, and wouldnt let me tap it even though i had money on my card, and all the other ones i spoke said that they would let me tap it.

 

Anyway, my question is, what do you think would be the likely outcome? I am very VERY worried and upset, because i see everyone in the riots is getting in prison for long times for very small things, and they might be feeling harsh. I am a nice, respectable person, and try my best to be kind. Do you think they will send me to prison or fine me alot of money??even if it was twice??

 

I am a student and barely have enough money my self, my dad does not work because he is in hospital for stress related illness and my mum has to provide for 3 children who are at university, so you can imagine it is very expensive.

 

PLEASE HELP I AM SO STRESSED AND UPSET AND WORRIED

 

THANKS

[dx100uk]

there is absolutely no chance of prison ......

 

please read the forum

 

unless you have been doing it several times over a long period, you will most prob get a small fine

 

you need to wait for a letterthen send your grovel one.

 

dx

[bigfluffy]

I have waited for the letter and sent my grovel one, i think they dont even read it they just send a standard reply thats all they do. Thanks anyway though

[Gick]

Dear bigfluffy,

 

I can understand your worry, but you have been given advice on your other thread '

Help please, very bad situation'

 

Posts #28, 31 and 41 of that thread have tried to reassure you that it is very, very unlikely that you would be sent to prison, SRPO being prepared to put money on your not. You do need to take on board the expert opinions that you have been given.

 

Whilst the forum will give advice on procedures and options, it is not really the place for counselling. For that you would be better advised to approach your local vicar, priest or minister if you have one or alternatively the Samaritans.

 

You must not sentence yourself!

 

Read through the responses in your other thread again.

 

Regards

Edited September 11, 2011 by Gick
missing letter

[dx100uk]

cheers fluffy

 

wasting my time

when everyting is in the other thread.......................

 

please keep to one thread per issue

 

and they do not ignore the letters

each is read and taken into consideration

 

just wait.

 

dx