personal dispute with flatmate - LL emails us to leave within 2 wks

[padja]

First you can change the locks I would and state it was due to the original altercation with other tenant as you were in fear. also invest in a chain too so you can open the door if needed but still stop him entry, as for the confirming when you will leave, that I'm not sure but I think Mr Shed will be better placed. Have you rang Shelter? please do they may well send someone round to be there when the LL turns up by having them there they will be a witness to any criminal/unlawful acts or threats. If you feel threatened or in fear the police will attend. and in all honesty will tell LL he needs an eviction notice. and cant just turn up and chuck you out.

[London-123]

My friend had a call from the LL this morning. He had just received a call from the council housing case officer assisting us. The LL apparently first pretended he had not spoken with the case officer, and then said that the deposit was protected (yet wasn't able to provide the name of the protection scheme) and said that he did not want to provide his address.

 

I took over the phone call and explained the situation to him and agreed to email him about the information he needs. We then spoke to the housing officer by phone (who also remarked on how agitated and difficult to deal with the LL is - hence why I want to make it clear to the LL that it's not in his own interest to speak to us face-to-face).

 

This is the email I have sent the LL:

 

"As you have heard we need a valid notice. Regarding the deposit protection, for the notice to be legal you need to provide the name of the deposit scheme, its address and the reference number.

You will need to provide your residential address for the notice to be legally valid.

To repeat, after a legal notice has been served, we will then be be able to work from the basis of a valid notice. Further communication can take place via email or in writing only, since we will need a record of each communication. I am including Mr xxxxxxx, the housing officer assisting with the case, in the recipients."

 

My friend wanted to take a conciliatory tone, offering that we would look for a new place, and so may be leaving earlier than the notice period. But I think this only plays into his need to find a weakness.

 

(I presume he won't give his address so far because he has something hidden from the bank/insurance about this property?)

[London-123]

padja:

The housing officer feels that changing the room lock would inflame the situation at this stage, and I'm inclined to agree. I think he is not used to have people dealing with him authoritatively, and if the police were called he would be afraid of the consequences to his 'reputation'.

[MrShed]

I think your email is very fair, succinct, and to the point. Keep us posted.

[MrShed]

Oh btw I'm a moron. The S20 notice I mentioned above is rubbish, it is actually S48. Read this thread for a bit more info, in particular the first response by Paul F. http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php/t-3199.html It is clear that until the landlord provides you with his correct contact details, that eviction must fail, and rent is not lawfully due.

[London-123]

Thanks Mr.Shed. I will post updates as they come.

[padja]

yes your probably right about changing the locks, and I think the housing officer is the way to go he does seem to have the measure of LL, and again if you do feel threatened do ring the police, or just perhaps nip into local police station for a bit of advice about it.

[Ed999]

My comments only apply if the premises are entirely within England and Wales, and you were both over 18 years of age when you moved in, and the rent is less than £2,083 per month.

 

This posting is supplemental to the information in this forum's "sticky" threads and is NOT to be read in isolation.

 

 

Protection from eviction

 

If you have a licence, it's unlawful to evict you without first giving you 28 days notice in writing, in the form prescribed by law, unless it's an "excluded licence" (for example, one under which you share any accommodation with the landlord, where that was the landlord's principal home both when the licence was originally granted and when the licence terminated).

 

This is one effect of the Protection From Eviction Act 1977.

 

If you have a tenancy, you would usually be entitled to more notice than that. A tenant must be given at least 2 months notice, in writing, unless there are rent arrears or some other breach of the provisions in the tenancy agreement.

 

This is one effect of the Housing Act 1988, sections 8 and 21.

 

It's unlawful to evict you without first obtaining a court order, whether you have a tenancy or a licence, unless it's an "excluded licence" (for example, one under which you share any accommodation with the landlord, where that was the landlord's principal home both when the licence was originally granted and when the licence terminates).

 

This is an effect of the Protection From Eviction Act 1977, section 2.

 

 

Protection from Eviction Act 1977

 

If any person unlawfully deprives a residential occupier (defined as any person occupying premises as a residence under a contract, not merely under a tenancy) of his occupation of the premises, or attempts to do so, he is guilty of an offence [section 1(2)].

 

Withholding services reasonably required for the occupation of the premises as a residence is also an offence [section 1(3)].

 

If the premises are let under a licence, a court order must be obtained [section 3(2B), added by Housing Act 1988 s30]; except where it is an 'excluded licence' (for example, one under which the occupier shares any accommodation with the landlord, if it was the landlord's principal home both when the licence was originally granted and when the licence terminated) [section 3A, added by Housing Act 1988 s31].

 

A notice given by a landlord to terminate a periodic licence to occupy premises as a dwelling is not valid unless it is in writing and contains the information prescribed by statute, and is given not less than 28 days before it takes effect; but this does not apply if it is an 'excluded licence' [section 5, added by Housing Act 1988 s32].

 

A prosecution can be brought by the District Council or London Borough Council for the place where the premises are situated [section 6]; so complain to the Housing Department at your local Council.

 

 

Sharing with Others

 

An important question that must be asked is: do you have a tenancy?

 

The distinction between a tenancy and a mere licence is that a tenancy is created by granting the occupier exclusive occupation of premises; and a licence is created by granting shared occupation.

 

An essential element of a residential tenancy is that the premises form a seperate dwelling (e.g. a self-contained dwelling). This emerged from the leading case of Street v Mountford, decided by the House of Lords in 1985. I recommend that link to you, with its illustrations of how the test works in practice.

 

In every case it is a question of fact: the court which tries the case has to decide, on the actual facts of the case, whether or not exclusive occupation of a seperate dwelling has been granted.

 

 

Where other tenants/lodgers live in the same building, in order to create a tenancy -

 

(a) Each must occupy a seperate dwelling in the building, e.g. a self-contained flat; or

 

(b) The whole building must be occupied as a single dwelling under a single contract, i.e. all the occupiers must sign the same contract, as joint tenants.

 

See, for example, Types of Tenancy.

 

 

The effect of the 1985 court decision in Street v Mountford was modified by the Housing Act 1988 (which applies to tenancies granted after February 1989).

 

Section 3 of the 1988 Act creates a tenancy if the tenant has exclusive occupation of some living accommodation, even if he shares other living accommodation with other tenants:

 

• http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/section/3

 

This removed the element of Street v Mountford which prevented a tenancy existing if the tenant did not have exclusive use of ALL the living accommodation necessary to amount to a "separate dwelling".

 

If he has exclusive use of some accommodation (even as little as one room), he has a tenancy - even though he shares other living accommodation with other tenants.

 

 

Rights of a licensee

 

If the occupier is NOT a tenant:

 

(a) he is NOT protected by the Housing Act, so the landlord does not have to give 2 months notice of eviction under section 21: a mere lodger, or licensee, can be evicted by being given 4 weeks written notice in the form prescribed under the Protection From Eviction Act 1977; and

 

(b) he is NOT protected by the Tenancy Deposit Scheme, which only applies to shorthold tenancies: the TDS scheme does not apply to licences.

 

 

Criminal Offences: Landlord

 

Read the FAQ - Shorthold Tenancy - possession, eviction and notice

 

That FAQ explains what criminal offences the landlord will commit if he evicts an occupier from residential premises without a court order, even - in some circumstances - if there is no tenancy.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Ed999

[London-123]

The current situation is that we have informally agreed to leave at the end of September.

We don't yet have the means to move out then, so my friend asks what should be our approach to the rent - pay as normal, or agree some plan to repay after we leave, so that we have enough money for the new flat?

(We have arrears from early in the tenancy owing to a period of illness - the situation is quite complex, so I might need a new thread for that one.)

[London-123]

UPDATE: Need some help again please!

 

The landlord would not provide his address, so we have had no legal notice to leave. I spoke with him at length to say that we would move out as soon as financially possible, and arrange how/when arrears could be paid then. We have saved sufficient funds now to move out, but not to repay arrears from the beginning of the tenancy (2009/10 - during an illness I ended up applying for LHA but having no account to pay it into - I have not received these funds since having an account. My GP now says he will provide medical evidence if I submit an appeal, but I don't know the right way to make this).

 

The landlord, reneging on the informal agreement, has now sent us messages saying that his 'American cousin' will be moving into our room on the 20th October. This has happened as I was about to transfer rent to him: I'm now waiting for advice before paying/not paying, since we cannot afford to lose the money if we are to be forced out.

 

Could someone please advise us how to proceed? To repeat from earlier in the thread, the contract has no landlord address on it, and when asked to provide one, the landlord refused. The housing officer at Camden Council would not assist us with acquiring his address (we have seen letters here addressed to the landlord showing that he owes over £10 000 in service fees to Camden Council). There is no deposit protection registered. The landlord initially asked us to leave after taking the side of another tenant who had been obstructive and aggressive toward the friend I share the contract with. This tenant harangued both the housing officer and the landlord to force us to leave.

 

So we are only now able to look for a new flat - to minimise argument over the exact moving date, we have offered to find a replacement tenant for the room here. The landlord agreed to this when the proposal was made, but now harangues us to leave within a couple of days.

 

Thanks for any advice!

 

UPDATE: Housing officer's emails are particularly unhelpful - today's says 'Bottom line is you need to agree with landlord when you vacate'.

Edited October 18, 2011 by London-123