Unpaid business rates

[DOTCOM]

Hi

I hope somebody can advise me.

Yesterday a bailiff called a my business premises and handed me a notice which read 'REMOVAL 24 HOURS.'

This is for upaid business rates of £614 (i have confirmed this figure with local authoritry) for year 2010/2011 I do not dispute this debt but was shocked that the bailliff demanded £932.68!!

His notice states I have ignored all previous correspondence -not true, I have not had any contact with bailiff no visits no cards or letters left at business. He said he will give me until Monday to pay then he will return and close business or take goods from my home. (i am a sole trader)

Can somebody tell me why his fees are so much. He has not levied but is threatening removal?

I have told the local authorit that bailiff has added £318.50 to my debt but there response was take it up with bailiff I asked if they knew what bailiff was allowed to charge and was told they could not comment I had to take this up with bailiff.

I phoned Jacobs who were unhelpful and said I had to ask visiting bailiff, I said surely you know what the fees should be on this debt- apparently they don't it is up to bailiff.

I spoke to bailiff who said it was because of court fees for liability order, I pointed out they were already in £614 debt he said he had a right to charge various fees.

My problem is I cannot pay whole debt at once, bailiff would not make arrangement, council are saying I cannot pay them and must pay bailiff but I know he will take fees first. Any help please I am desperate.

[fork-it]

The law prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid business rates is Regulation 3© of the Non-Domestic Rating (Collection and Enforcement) (Amendment and Miscellaneous Provision) Regulations 1993 and The Council Tax and Non-Domestic Rating (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2006

 

1st Visit £24.50

2nd Visit £18.00

[fork-it]

His notice states I have ignored all previous correspondence -not true, I have not had any contact with bailiff

 

The law says the council must send you a "final notice" or a "reminder" by post to your current address before making an application to a magistrate for a Liability order against you. As there is compelling evidence the council failed to do this, you can ask the council to roll the case back to pre-liability order stage and cease enforcement action immediately.

 

Pay the council direct. DO NOT contact the bailiff.

 

See if the bauiliff is genuine, enter his name here: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/CertificatedBailiffs/

[DOTCOM]

Hi I have checked out and the bailiff is genuine. I can pay £300 on Friday to the council but I am worried that the bailiff will still call on Monday and do his worse. The council said I cannot pay them but I can do this online. Should I inform Jacobs when I make the payment and is there any way I can stop this bailiff?

[Thegreenpimpernel]

You need to prevent them entering and levying or the £300 fees will apply after he attends to remove.

 

If you can prevent him entering and levying, the maximum fees will those Fork-it has stated.

 

You should contact your council and ask, via a Freedom of Information (FOI) request if necessary, for a copy of their policy on bailiff use.

 

The copy provided by my LO specified (contrary to what the bailiff said) that the bailiff should acquire 50% of the outstanding debt, then the rest over 6 months. Otherwise he is entitled to remove goods.

[DOTCOM]

Hi

Well I managed to pay £614 direct to the council. I then e-mailed them to ask about their policy regarding bailiff fees. I e-mailed Jacobs to say their bailiff was charging me £318.68 fees and asked if they would give me a breakdown. I won't get a reply until next week.

The enforcement bailiff called my mobile about 20 minutes ago to see if I had money to pay him tomorrow, I explained that I had paid council direct, He went mad and said if I don't pay fees tomorrow he will remove goods! I asked him how fees amount to £318.68 he said levy fee and van fee. I asked him when had he had levied, he answered the day 'I called.' I asked exactly what he had levied on he answered ' a Bmw and other things' the BMW PARKED OUTSIDE THE SHOP WAS MY DAUGHTERS. He said he is allowed to call with a van on the very first visit because he is an enforcement bailiff. He said cost of van is £200 plus levy fee. When I again pointed out he was charging £318.68 he said he had probably made a mistake and if I phone him tomorrow he will see if he can get fees lowereed!

Can any body advise if he is allowed to call with a van on first visit and what the fees should be on a debt of £614. I now feel he is bullying

Thanks

[brassnecked]

Are bailiffs allowed to phone a debtor on a Sunday? I thought it was a day they couldn't work, also i think you need to email followed up by a letter in writing a Formal complaint to council, Others will know more, but I thought he had to leave a list of items seized, also if the car isn't yours and you can prove it, any levy he claims is likely invalid, and all his other fees apart from first and second visit should be void imho

[fork-it]

The BMW is not yours so the levy is not valid so the fee is £0.00.

 

The law provides for a fee of £24.50 to visit you, plus a sliding scale of charges for amounts recovered, but no money was recovered, so fees due under the scale: £0.00.

 

There is no such prescrived fee called a van fee, so that fee is £0.00.

 

Bailiffs cannot sue you for his fees.

 

JBW Enforcement Ltd v City of Westminster [2009] EWHC 2697 (QB), the Judge, Mr Justice Jack said:

 

Thus the bailiff gets paid only through the process of execution: if he becomes entitled to charge fees, but does not continue with the execution process, he will not recover them and he cannot sue the debtor for them.

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2009/2697.html

[DOTCOM]

Let me get this clear,

He can't charge levy fee for car

What if he listed other goods ie tables and chairs - can he remove these to cover his fee?

Is he allowed to attend with a van on first visit?

Sorry if I seem dim, I am just scared he will come tomorrow and start removing goods - as threatened - even thogh debt is now paid

[brassnecked]

I think Fork-it has nailed this one, as he included property that is not yours in his levy viz a BMW the whole levy falls, i don't think they can charge a levy AND a van fee together, as they attend to levy goods, and attend to remove at a later date at which point a van fee can then be added.

 

Jacobs are less than scrupulous in their operations imho. I have mentioned in another thread how one of them approached me whilst parked and on the phone, opposite an address they were attending, hoping I was the debtor, and obviously intending to levy my motor

[DOTCOM]

Thanks everybody I'm still worried about tomorrow as they seem to do as they like.

[ploddertom]

Are your business premises open to the public?

 

PT

[DOTCOM]

Yes it is a cafe /chip shop

[ploddertom]

Shame, I was going to suggest you have a day off. However if he did not leave a Notice of Seizure on the day he called that's his tough luck. You do need to contact the Council and make sure your Liability to them is discharged. The Regulations allow the Bailiff to have his fees first and any surplus is then taken off your indebtedness to the Council. However a number of Councils do not work in this manner and leave to you to pay Bailiff fees separately. If the Council do confirm you owe zero then the Bailiff cannot use the LO to enforce for his fees alone.

 

PT

[DOTCOM]

This saga goes on and on.

I contacted bailiffadviceonline who advise me to complain to Chief Executive Officer at the council and copy Jacobs in. She also advise me to pay for bailiffs initial and only visit fee £24.50. pay to cpouncil if Jacobs won't accept this. I did as she said. This morning the bailiff rang to ask exactly what amounts I had paid, I told him full liability £614 plus one visit fee £24.50 he said OK i WILL BE AT THE SHOP WIYHIN 1 HOUR TO REMOVE GOODS THEN SLAMMED THE PHONE DOWN.

i CONTACTED lOCAL aUTHORITY WHO SAID IT WAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM i HAD TO TAKE IT UP WITH BAILIFF. i EXPLAINED THAT BAILIFF would not listen and was told 'well you should have paid your debt on time' I asked LO if they agreed bailiff could charge anything he felt like they more or less said it was not there problem. Phoned Jacobs who will not call off bailiff until LO confirm payment has been made. I had to phone Council back and insist they inform Jacobs they informed me that whoever was telling me they are responsible for the bailiff they hire are giving me incorrect information. I feel really stressed by all this.

[hallowitch]

your council are talking rubbish they are and always will be fully responsible for all bailiff action

 

I would stop talking to the bailiff on the phone unless you can record the call

has he actually left a notice of seizure of goods and inventory listing the car and other goods without it there is no levy

 

What council is this

[brassnecked]

Have a video camera your phone will do, to film the Jacobs bailiff as and when he turns up, as if you have paid the requisite fees in, they have nowhere to go, the council are clueless, and remain wholly responsible if jacobs act unlawfully to collect their now spurious fees imho.

[DOTCOM]

Hi everyone thanks for your most helpful replies.

 

hallowitch this is Salford City Council (home of Hazel Blears)

 

Well the bailiff failed to call today so I am hoping that is the end of this sorry tale.

What makes my blood boil is the fact that these bailiffs will do this again and again and unsuspecting people will pay - usually those who can ill afford it.

 

As I said I have sent a formal complaint to Salford Council and sent a copy of this to Jacobs, Is there anybody else I should be complaining to, these people should be stopped?

[fork-it]

you can make a complaint to the court that issued the bailiffs certificate on the grounds of falsely representing a higher fee than he was lawfully entitled, in the alternative the bailiff claimed unjust enrichment.

[brassnecked]

You could also copy Hazel Blears in to see if she can earn a bit of the money she gets paid. have a video camera ready incase jacobs are silly enough to call, it is not illegal and you don't need their permission whatever they say when you film them.

[bigshoes...bigsocks]

You could also copy Hazel Blears in to see if she can earn a bit of the money she gets paid.

 

Good idea. Perhaps you should 'rock her boat' and see how she likes it. dizzy mare.

[brassnecked]

Good idea. Perhaps you should 'rock her boat' and see how she likes it. dizzy mare.

 

A horse would be more intelligent imho

[DDDDD]

The law prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid business rates is Regulation 3© of the Non-Domestic Rating (Collection and Enforcement) (Amendment and Miscellaneous Provision) Regulations 1993 and The Council Tax and Non-Domestic Rating (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2006

 

1st Visit £24.50

2nd Visit £18.00

 

 

That is not true, as I presume he has gained access into the property - as the impression is this guy has met with the Bailiff.

This means that now he has gained peaceful entry he is able to re-attend at any time advised to this chap, and force entry if demands are not kept to - resulting in high costs and removal of goods.

 

Take it from an ex-bailiff...