Ingeus

[gil_jnr]

This is why you should covertly record all appointments. You would have them bang to rights then.

 

Covert recording really is a lifesaver if you are put in the position of having to make a formal complaint. It's one thing to repeat their words in writing, but when you can add the threatening or condescending manner in which the words were delivered, it adds a whole new dimension.

 

I did just that, and sent a CD-ROM with an MP3 file of the recorded meeting as well as a typed transcript as evidence to both the regional manager and my MP. At the next meeting, I continued to covertly record whilst the advisor made a vehement denial of the details of the complaint but had been unaware of the recorded evidence, at which point I produced my recorder and told them it was still running, and that it had been on every previous meeting.

 

The phrase 'dropping a bombshell' doesn't quite do the reaction justice

[RebeccaPidgeon]

I agree - the jobs I am applying for are mainly through recruitment agencies - there is a strict policy with them not to divulge information. I also want to increase my chances of getting the job by having as less competition as possible.

I have no objection to showing this information to JCP as I know they would not phone and have no financial incentive to work with potential employers (as it is not in their remit to do so).

However, I think it outrageous that a private company is relying on its clients to further its own agenda. It makes me wonder if there is another branch to Ingeus that acts as some sort of recruitment consultant and gets paid if they find a candidate.

I think this will exist within every W2W Provider.... in the case of Ingeus, they do compete with other Recruitment Agencies, and offer employers a "one stop recruitment process" on behalf of employers, including interviewing, shortlisting etc. However, given that Personnel Clerks working within Recruitment Agencies are marginally less qualified than the daily postman, it remains to be seen whether some Administrative Clerk within a Welfare To Work Company may presume themselves to possess the competence to analyse candidates. After all, if they were THAT qualified, they would be working in the wealth creating part of the economy, even within a Call Centre, and not a mere Welfare To Work business.

[debt4get]

employers in wales(also read this in the daily mail today, same results country wide) are more 'optimistic' about taking on staff this year...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19545040...

however, the jobs are in mostly in financial services, and so called business services, all call centre work, insurance selling, ppi, etc...when are we going to learn that just moving money from one place to another is never going to make a stable economy...there is only so much money to go around, only so much money you can move around.

once the ppi bubble bursts in the next few years there will be thousands of unemployed ex-call centre workers in abundance....

[RebeccaPidgeon]

employers in wales(also read this in the daily mail today, same results country wide) are more 'optimistic' about taking on staff this year...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19545040...

however, the jobs are in mostly in financial services, and so called business services, all call centre work, insurance selling, ppi, etc...when are we going to learn that just moving money from one place to another is never going to make a stable economy...there is only so much money to go around, only so much money you can move around.

once the ppi bubble bursts in the next few years there will be thousands of unemployed ex-call centre workers in abundance....

Although I have never found working in a Call Centre remotely appealing, it is the case that the operators can relocate overnight from the UK to Bangalore (where, curiously, graduates aspire to working in a Call Centre), and other Regions. There have even been cases of Call Centres relocating from Bangalore to Northern Ireland, and even being "Outsourced" back to the Country of origin.

 

Unfortunately, in terms of the UK Economy, Financial Services is perhaps the only example of a Market Sector which offers growth potential - even moreso when the City of London targets emerging financial markets within the Peoples Public of China and East Asia, and financial turbulence in the Eurozone.

 

Of course, the prognosis for the UK Economy would be even better - if it were not for the disdain and contempt to UK Staff evidenced by the likes of Mr James Dyson who, in about 2003, sacked Professional Engineers within the UK before relocating to Malaysia.

Edited September 12, 2012 by RebeccaPidgeon
grammar

[debt4get]

despite the UK growth figures showing a downward trend, my hat must go off to the condem govt, as yet again unemployment falls by another miraculous 7000 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19569316

so am assuming they are manipulating the figures in order to show this downward trend, because as we all know jobs are either non existent, or lowly paid p/t work, where people are just swopping one benefit for another

[debt4get]

Although I have never found working in a Call Centre remotely appealing, it is the case that the operators can relocate overnight from the UK to Bangalore (where, curiously, graduates aspire to working in a Call Centre), and other Regions. There have even been cases of Call Centres relocating from Bangalore to Northern Ireland, and even being "Outsourced" back to the Country of origin.

 

Unfortunately, in terms of the UK Economy, Financial Services is perhaps the only example of a Market Sector which offers growth potential - even moreso when the City of London targets emerging financial markets within the Peoples Public of China and East Asia, and financial turbulence in the Eurozone.

 

financial services cannot carry economy, it is a corrupt system that will eventually fall apart, we cannot and must not become a nation of call centre workers, simply moving money around the markets is never going to sustainable, once these companies have exhausted ppi, insurance, selling financial services is becoming more difficult by the day, and as the money supply in the economy is getting worse this can only lead to disaster for these companies

[osdset]

If the unemployment rate went down by 70,000 it would hardly be a dent in the very,very,very, conservative figure of 2.59 million, 7000 is such a paltry amount I'm surprised the media has bothered reporting it.

[debt4get]

if we add in the 1.4m who are in p/t but would like f/t then the figures are staggering!!! the reason why the reporting is to try to con us that 'look we are bringing down employment!!' plus of course the thousands who have recently left school don't even get included in the figures

[RebeccaPidgeon]

financial services cannot carry economy, it is a corrupt system that will eventually fall apart, we cannot and must not become a nation of call centre workers, simply moving money around the markets is never going to sustainable, once these companies have exhausted ppi, insurance, selling financial services is becoming more difficult by the day, and as the money supply in the economy is getting worse this can only lead to disaster for these companies

Finance has been an imperative of every society...even when subjects were bartering using currency widgets of exchange between buyer and seller.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

If the unemployment rate went down by 70,000 it would hardly be a dent in the very,very,very, conservative figure of 2.59 million, 7000 is such a paltry amount I'm surprised the media has bothered reporting it.

The likelihood is that the figures would be worse.... if it were not for the ease at which the unemployed, who were mandated to participate within the Work Programme, had not decided to become "self employed" and extract themselves from the unemployment figures.

 

Unfortunately, it is unlikely that such businesses will survive... the main thrust of business advice offered by Administrative Clerks within Ingeus is that any candidate may become an erstwhile "Bob The Gardener" simply through registering a business, "walking doot to door" as a means to drum of trade, and to bump your working hours up to 30 per week in order to claim Working Tax Credit.

[signmaker]

I have tried this morning to ring a Mr Brockwell (Manager) the chap who supposedly sent my Doubt letter, at JCPlus Derby office numerous times this morning with out success, all I was getting was an engaged tone, (are they that busy?) so gave up and have written a letter along with a copy of e-mails sent regarding my entitlement to benefit.

will let you know the outcome.

 

I have just been to my latest Ingeus "jobsearch" as soon as I sat down my "advisor" (the first time I have seen her in 8 weeks) was there asking if I had heard anything aboud the doubt letter that I had received, I told her that I sent the JCP a letter with the e-mails she sent me, she then said that she had to tell jcp that I had cancelled an appointment (although thinking back these jobsearch appointments have not been mandated she just told me oraly to attend) I told her that she could have told me what might happen if I cancel or even re-arrange the appointment for me, to which she went very quiet, after a pause she then said do you want me to call and see if a decision has been made yet regarging a sanction, I told her that I couldn't care less wether she did or didn't, so she did, and called me over to give personal details before I was given the result, which was NO sanction.

Now I don't know if my advisor was covering her own back for making a mistake or trying to help me, she obviously made more work for these people than was necessary instead of using her initiative and common sense.

 

One question if any one can answer for me, the waiver letter states the pimps can no longer share my data with any other bodies, can I ask for my personal information i.e, e-mail address, phone numbers etc to be taken off of their system and just leave them with my address for them to use as a contact?

thanks in advance.

[Bakatcha]

Signmaker -Well that's good news at least no sanction. Though as you say you were never mandated in writing- just oraly - then the mandation was incorrectly done and no sanction should ever apply in those circumstances.

As you say a lot of unnecessary work - and a lot of unnecessary angst, worry and stress. Unfortunately you are not alone - multiply your experience by the thousands of stupid sanction doubts being raised and one begins to see what a farce the whole WP is! It seems that in their frustration at falling well short of targets they resort to becoming sanction factories. So much for tailored help!

I am not sure about them removing info at your request. I suspect it is too late for that but I am open to correction. I think you could just specify that you should be contacted in writing - though whether they'll take any notice of this having got your other details I doubt!

Edited September 12, 2012 by Bakatcha
addition of material

[Ktker]

i would simply tell them that you have changed your email address/phone number etc and give them dud ones. and i would keep changing them until they don't know their arse from their elbow

[matty39]

I have a friend who is on the work programme with Best and he hates it. He said the place he`s at is a dump and the advisors are useless. Is there a way of him transferring to ingeus?

[debt4get]

why bother swapping one useless w2w for another?

[debt4get]

Finance has been an imperative of every society...even when subjects were bartering using currency widgets of exchange between buyer and seller.

whilst we live in a society that uses finance and financial services, we cannot all be employed within that industry, someone somewhere, has to grow something, make something, produce something in order for this service to survive....it cannot continue to be a growth industry without the 'producers' whether that is me and you bartering chickens for bread or whatever...it seems we need this 'middleman' in order to survive, when in effect we could survive without them...as again we cannot just rely on financial service jobs to get us out of the mess we are in..

[matty39]

why bother swapping one useless w2w for another?

 

Because where im at. The advisors at least treat you like a human being. They are not rude either at least not to me anyway. I know some have had problems with ingeus but i can`t say anything bad against them because they`ve treated me well.

[debt4get]

fair enough....dont know if you can swap.....best thing is to ask...and see what they say...from what i gather though once the provider has you on their books they 'own' you for the next 2 years

[matty39]

fair enough....dont know if you can swap.....best thing is to ask...and see what they say...from what i gather though once the provider has you on their books they 'own' you for the next 2 years

 

There were some guys there who had from best. i`ll have to ask them how they got transferred to ingeus.

[flumps1976]

You can't transfer form one WProg to another, if after a certain period of time they haven't made any progress with you they simply farm you off to alternative sub contractor of the WProg Head Office.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

fair enough....dont know if you can swap.....best thing is to ask...and see what they say...from what i gather though once the provider has you on their books they 'own' you for the next 2 years

Given that your commitment is to Job Centre Plus, and to the Job Seekers Agreement, you only have to attend any Work Programme Provider until such time as you are advised that your attendance is no longer required, or if for reason you sign off the unemployment register with the Job Seekers Agreement being null and void.

 

Whereas, if you secure a job, you sign off, if you attend a College Course requiring a commitment of >16 "Study Hours" per week you also have to sign off.

[Ktker]

Ok - just back from JCP to sign on and spoke with an advisor there about Ingeus. Another advisor was called into the discussion as I explained the 'victimisation' I am receiving from Ingeus. Apart from being shocked they agreed their conduct is appalling and that:-

1) The job seeker agreement is the only contract that I have and this has to be adhered to by Ingeus - they cannot deviate from my job seeker agreement.

2) Ingeus has to work with me in a 'supportive' role and cannot and should not raise bogus 'mandates'

3) Ingeus cannot request that I give names of contacts that I have for jobs applied and then use that data for contact those parties.

4) Expenses must be paid and must be without loss to client, these expenses cannot be decided by an individual advisor 'willy nilly' and must adhere to Ingeus standard Reimbursement Policy.

 

JCP does not have a 'relationship manager' with Ingeus (which I think is a big mistake) but however advised me to meet with the manager of Ingeus and my MP.

I plan to do this and will not being going back to Ingeus until I have assurances that the victimisation stops!

[Dalar 1]

Hi Flumps just to tell you what has happened to me. Everytime I have asked for expenses from my provider there has been real issues, raising of eyebrows, looking towards the manager as if I am a nuisance, sarcasm and huddling in corners talking about me as to whether I am entitled to the expenses. This got so bad that it came to a head 3 weeks ago where an argument took place when I asked who was going to pay my expenses when attending a Mandatory Activity. I was given completely the wrong information, in that, she said it was not them but the JC or the people running the mandatory course. I had already found out, but did not tell her that it was them that had to pay. I was accused of having an attitude problem and that "no wonder I could not get work with my attitude" I had actually secured work that day and started on 10th September 2012. I walked out and went straight to the JC and was told it was none of their business and I was under the umbrella of the Work Programme and that they had signed a contract.

I was so angry I went home and typed a 3 page complaint to the Provider as I felt I was being attacked from all sides, the manager stepped in and threw in her tuppence worth with the other advisor asking for witnesses because of my replies. It has taken 3 weeks for them to investigate with an apology of how I was treated and that my expenses should have been paid. If you have advisors that have been told wrong information, it escalates and causes friction. The advisor was completely wrong yet she would not budge because she felt she was right without even looking at the provider guidance. She has cost me £22.05 in lost travelling expenses toing and froing to the mandatory activity plus about another £4.00 from my interview expenses.

 

I have been offered a change of location, but same provider, or same provider but different manager to take on my caseload or a recommended suggestion from me. However, as I have said I have started work and when this person wrote the letter he would not have known that. I have replied that if I have to go back I will take up the offer of a change of location.

 

I have a friend who attends another provider and he mentioned the problems I was having and it was put to him that, you can change provider, it can be done, but "they" don't like doing it(don't know who "they" are).

 

I worked for JCP also on a fixed term contract and never treated people the way I have been treated and I believe all this has taken place because of my employment with JCP. My advisor has continuously been on the defensive everytime I have asked questions, which we are all entitled to do. The problem with it all is they are not trained and are not professional employment advisors and I, at the moment, know as much as them and they are intimidated by it, but you can never win with them as they hold the ace card, threatening people with sanctions etc.

[Ktker]

They can make all the threats they want with sanctions but at the end of the day your contract is with the JCP not with Ingeus. Therefore any sanctions can be easily quashed by referring to your JCP contact. If Ingeus think they own us then they are sadly mistaken!

[osdset]

They can make all the threats they want with sanctions but at the end of the day your contract is with the JCP not with Ingeus. Therefore any sanctions can be easily quashed by referring to your JCP contact. If Ingeus think they own us then they are sadly mistaken!

The information I have is, if Ingeus or any of the other pimps raises a sanction doubt with JCP and the DM agrees with it, the claimant is sanctioned, once a claimant is mandated on to the WP JCP has nothing more to do with them for the next two years, no doubt flumps or one of the other JCP/DWP bods will be along to clarify this but I think I am right.