Imminent Charge on property Lloyds bank Business Loan pse help someone...

[The Mould]

Good afternoon Muffintop

 

I am pleased to hear that you and your husband have made your minds up in respect of how you intend to deal with this matter.

 

What I do not understand is your sudden turn around upon deciding not to defend the claim since your reports here on your case seem to have been made with conviction.

 

As with any thread/case that I post my advice and or opinion on, such advice/opinion is posted solely upon what the op reports on their case.

 

Good luck for now and the future.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[caro]

Just had a thought MT. Does the liquidator know about this? If it was a business debt originally then it must form part of the companies debts, so if your husband pays the debt as guarantor I wonder if he could be classed as a creditor of the company.

 

Also, you say Lloyds are claiming £23k. How much was the original loan for? If part of the £23k is made up of charges etc, it might give you some bargaining power for a F&F.

 

What was the interest rate on the loan and what was it on the overdraft. I wonder if the loan would actually have been cheaper than the OD, which would put Lloyds in a good light if it did ever get to court, despite the strong arm tactics.

[Cadbury1879]

Hi Mt

I would look to some clarity on this situation,if you defend or not the claiment is looking to obtain a C/O if you lose or admit. I would defend a C/O, and complete a realistic I&E with a amount payable within your budget.

Do not be under the illusion that the more you offer the better your chance of avoiding a C/O. In fact this may make things worse in the long run.

I believe that you may have a chance of a succesfull outcome in light of recent results.However it's still a DJ lottery.If you are not defending you need to aim for a installment order,in most cases they will then not be able to obtain a C/O. This is not catorgoric however, as many cases on here prove.

The fact is though you will not recieve a full c/o., as the debt is your husbands, and the property is jointly owned, I assume.the only thing the creditor can do is place a restriction with the LR. This is not the same as a charge or a mortgage & does not impose a obligation on paying this amount should you wish to sell in the future.

[Guest]

Just had a thought MT. Does the liquidator know about this? If it was a business debt originally then it must form part of the companies debts, so if your husband pays the debt as guarantor I wonder if he could be classed as a creditor of the company.

 

Also, you say Lloyds are claiming £23k. How much was the original loan for? If part of the £23k is made up of charges etc, it might give you some bargaining power for a F&F.

 

What was the interest rate on the loan and what was it on the overdraft. I wonder if the loan would actually have been cheaper than the OD, which would put Lloyds in a good light if it did ever get to court, despite the strong arm tactics.

 

Hi C

 

Yes i mentioned this earlier, it deems that the company has little or no assets to liquidate, or that id the impression i got.

 

Peter

[Muffintop]

Hi read all above posts thanks. Reason I have turned around my decision to attempt to defend a indemnity guarantee, is because any defense we had was weak and we cannot afford to end up in a worse case of debt than we started with ie with costs and solicitors fees, I didnt realise at that stage that any sar would be fruitless as the debt came from a business overdraft and loan which were consolidated into a guarantee and indemnity loan secured on my husband as the only director at that time of a business which has since been disolved and is with the administrators.

Hence he cannot obtain information about any ppi from any past statements as he doesnt have them, the administrators do, he cannot get info on subject access request it seems from when he had the original business overdraft and business loan as its not a SUBJECT but a company. I still intend to pursue this with information commissioner for clarity.

 

I now feel that its better to swallow it and try to negotiate either a payment plan they will accept or a f and f... however 0h already offered 250 a month and they wont have it unless he signs to accept a charging order as well.. I guess at least he hasnt accepted this and is prepared to go to court to see what the dj decides on this .

 

This leads me to the 3rd part of my decision and the problems I face with this.

 

I am very worn down with this now and tired stressed.. I am reading thread after thread on charging orders now to be ready for any suggestion of this in the event of court case continuing.. but the information and the way I perceive that information to read my husband and I interpret in different ways.

The way I see it is:

I can defend an interim charging order on the following grounds..

I have a serious illness that will not go away and although work am registered disabled.

House is adapted to my needs

We have 2 stepchildren under age of 18 who we have shared care for and again house expecially big enough and close enough to their school for this purpose

I have a daughter still in full time education living at home

 

This is the sticking point my husband and I interpret in different ways. If a charging order is granted to Lloyds this would give all the other people my husband owes money to a disadvantage as they wouldnt have a similiar charging order. These debts are credit cards which have been in dispute for a couple of years following a request for cca from them, all pre 2004 credit cards. However if we put this forward as a defense to a co the judge may say 'I agree the other debtors will be disadvantaged, even though they are in dispute at the moment this may not be forever and even though you can pay 250 at the moment, you may not be able to pay this if these debts become enforceable' In those circumstances he may say, I dont feel you can pay 250 a month and I think that a charging order would be best option.

This is whats causing us to see this scenario in different ways and as such it is difficult to make representation to Lloyds in negotiation of why we feel a charging order wouldnt be granted to them, or to sort out what offer we should make, ie stay with the 250 a month which is best for us or make a f and f which means we are selling everything that we can to raise some money which wont be enough.

 

No, the liquidators, administrators dont know about this issue at the moment and oh is clarifying with them tomorrow that they arent paying any money back to Lloyds as well as us paying money back as well hence possible duplication of the debt.. as far as any PPI, cant see how it would benefit us to tell administrators about this possibility until we know if there is any PPI taken out and this is the sticking point as Lloyds wont tell us as it relates to a company which is now disolved..

 

Just started the blood pressure tablets!

[car2403]

MT, you always have to do what is right for you and yours and not something that an anonymous person on a public forum says you should - I totally respect your decision to take control of the situation and to make this the 'right' outcome for you. We aren't all 'consumer champions' and it's never an easy decision to take, but I think you're doing the right thing for you in your situation.

 

The next steps are to contact them, perferably in writing/by fax, so you can lay your terms of settlement out. Best to get a consent order drawn up (the other side should do that for you) and have the Court seal it as settled on those terms. This way, there can be no confusion as to what has/hasn't been agreed and both sides will know the score.

[andrew1]

As for the PPI, Lloyds cannot desist from telling you about any insurance policy that may assist in the settlement of their debt. It was taken out for that very purpose if it was taken out. I would write to them and ask them to advise you who, if any the insurance company were. This has become a 'personal debt' so your husband has every right to know and if they won't tell you direct, pick up the phone to any Lloyds big branch and just ask a blind question " I have a Lloyds Business Account and I'd like to know if we took out a PPI policy, which Insurance company would you put it through?" Mine for example was with Lloyds TSB Insurance on my Lloyds Ltd Company business PPI. call these people on 0845 300 5599 and just ask them if they have a policy in your husbands company name or in his name, just have the business bank account number handy if you know it. Speculative, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. If they do have one then it's then over to you to ask how he can go about making the claim. These people are usually very helpful. If they don't then ask this division of Lloyds Insurance who else they would have underwriten policies with around the time of the consolidation of the Overdraft and repeat the process.

 

I realise how traumatic this may be, but it will resolve itself - been there got the T shirt and it does get better every time you move one step towards resolution.

 

Actually, if these debts are rpoving difficult and there are a number of them, have you thought of going to Payplan or CCCS who will take the whole lot over and pro rata the debts with your creditors for you.

 

I helped a lady with £96,000 worth of debt (don't ask!), Payplan set the whole deal up over a 34 yr period (she was 67!) and she was paying £125 per month which Payplan split on a pro rata basis amongst the creditors for her. All she had to do was set up the standing Order and pay, the rest was taken over for her and the scheme was reviewed annually or every 6months (can't recall now).

 

Once the heat was off and she'd settled down from the trauma of things, just as you are going through now, she could take a breather and take a further look at her priorities and life.

 

She was a friend of mine and I took over negotiating thereafter full and finals with each of the creditors in turn when she had a pension policy mature and paid out. I settled the whole lot, via full and finals for £30,000. Paying one off at a time and reducing each time the £125 by the pro rata'd amount. This didn't include secured debt, but another chum of mine has an RBS Directors guarantee unsecured and that's paid via Payplan. £40k guarantee, he pays £85 a month towards it via Payplan. I'll hit that one too with a f & f fairly soon for him too.

 

There are always options. http://www.payplan.com/

 

Good luck.

 

Correction: My Insurers were Lloyds, but ITT London & Edinbrugh - 01903 230599

Edited June 7, 2011 by andrew1

[Muffintop]

Thanks guys for all the support. Can I ask you hang around on my thread for a bit longer to see what unfolds and to get any further opinions on charging order situation and what happens with the court cse if any. I do intend to advise husband to ring Lloyds re the PPI.. put it in writing and seek advise from the Information Commissioner on this issue as it may show Lloyds have been obstructive in providing information.

 

I dont understand why a defense to a charging order is that it would give preferential treatment to one creditor? can anyone answer above.

This is the sticking point my husband and I interpret in different ways. If a charging order is granted to Lloyds this would give all the other people my husband owes money to a disadvantage as they wouldnt have a similiar charging order. These debts are credit cards which have been in dispute for a couple of years following a request for cca from them, all pre 2004 credit cards. However if we put this forward as a defense to a co the judge may say 'I agree the other debtors will be disadvantaged, even though they are in dispute at the moment this may not be forever and even though you can pay 250 at the moment, you may not be able to pay this if these debts become enforceable' In those circumstances he may say, I dont feel you can pay 250 a month and I think that a charging order would be best option.

 

As far as other debts go, husband isnt on a payment plan with cccs as I am, because he doesnt want to acknowledge the debts due to failure from them to provide cca since 2007 and numerous requests sent formerlly, there seems a debate on this I have subbed to here on default notices.. I did acknowledge my debts pay them via cccs and have a trashed credit file which appears to be able to extended beyond the 6 years I thought I had a prison sentence, apparently if you dont acknowledge them or pay them at all they drop off! so me doing the right thing is actually the wrong thing.

[car2403]

The CO would, in effect, secure the debt against your property - that would prejudice other unsecured debts, as they would 'lose status' in any sale of the property, them being unsecured and secured debts taking precedence.In effect, the Court should look at this issue when awarding a CO. Not sure on it's success as an argument, TBH, but there are others you can use to 'bolster' it with.

[Muffintop]

Lloyds sent us letter today re the sar we requested and why it was declined.

As the request was for information pertaining to a Limited Company (now in liquidation) which is in itself a dinstinct legal entity, for which you are no longer a director, you are not entitled to information you requested as per your letter.

 

With express written authority from Lieuidator the ban k may be able to provide some of the information you have requested.

 

We DID NOT TAKE OUT PPI Insurance.!

 

So husband now needs to negotiate with Lloyds or show that he has tried to.. advise court that no longer wish to defend and sit back and wait for Lloyds response.. I have no doubt they will continue with the court case but at least we will have a paper trail to show we have tried to fairly negotiate with them and then try to defend any charging order.

[Muffintop]

The CO would, in effect, secure the debt against your property - that would prejudice other unsecured debts, as they would 'lose status' in any sale of the property, them being unsecured and secured debts taking precedence.In effect, the Court should look at this issue when awarding a CO. Not sure on it's success as an argument, TBH, but there are others you can use to 'bolster' it with.

 

Is it possible to have loads of charging orders on your house or just one? ie could Lloyds put on on with a secured debt .. and the credit cards also get one for unsecured debts?

[cymruambyth]

Unfortunately yes.

[Muffintop]

Right thanks... so I dont see the point of defending charging order on the grounds that Lloyds would get preferential treatment over unsecured debts, as it only hightlights that they exist.

 

I cant find sequences thread on charging orders can anyone give me the name of thread of a link pse

[AndyOrch]

Sticky: A guide to Charging Orders & Orders for Sale

[Muffintop]

HI Guys just checking in... nothing to report at moment apart from been transferred to our local court and have been in negotiation with Lloyds who have said they want to wait for a response to our written complaint about duress before we re commence any negotiations.... suits me sir.. may then defer longer if take it to fos... all giving us time to sell anything we have to raise some money as a bargaining tool...

[cymruambyth]

Hopefully you can now start to regain some control of this situation.

[Muffintop]

Case moved to our local court. Hearing date received today for 15 Aug copy of the request I made to defend attached to it, no directions from DJ as to whether this has been agreed?

 

I am assuming it has and as per previous posts after going through official complaints process re duress with Lloyds we can see that we are stuffed in any defense to taking out this loan and best to try to bat off any charging order. This means that we have 8 weeks to challenge the results of the complaint with Lloyds or go to FOS and if we dont they are willing to negotiate with us..

 

Should I therefore let court know that following results of our complaint we have decided to enter into negotiations with Lloyds prior to court and we are not wishing to defend the taking out of the loan any longer and as we are negotiating can we ask for a stay until this has been finalised?

 

dont want the court to think we are defending when we are not. Of course we will defend any subsequent charging order.

 

Any advise pse

[DonkeyB]

You do not need to, nor are you obliged, to tell the court anything yet. Why let anyone know your true situation? It’s not a question of honesty, but a question of process.

 

The court expects you to negotiate prior to any hearing. Dem’s da rules!

 

You don’t tell your oppo in negotiations what you will really settle for at the outset!

 

So it’s a question of setting out your stall to begin negotiations.

[Muffintop]

true, thanks very much will keep you informed

[Muffintop]

Lloyds solicitors have rung husband today and asked for a monthly negotiation figure of under 500 a month if he can negotiate something they will go ahead under a tomlin order.

they wont freeze interest though but have lowered it a bit.

What do you think? got to be better than a charging order

[caro]

Is it an amount that you can realistically afford?

[AndyOrch]

Lloyds solicitors have rung husband today and asked for a monthly negotiation figure of under 500 a month if he can negotiate something they will go ahead under a tomlin order.

they wont freeze interest though but have lowered it a bit.

What do you think? got to be better than a charging order

Think I would prefer the restriction £500 a month Ouch!!!!

Andy

 

 

[Cadbury1879]

What!! £500

Don't go for this, a restrictions better.

Cad

[Cadbury1879]

Just offer a amount dictated by an i&e, taking into account everything.

Not a penny more.

If they will not except this,you've nothing to lose, seeing them in court.

Regards

Cad

[caro]

Any update Muffintop?