1st Stop and AoE by the old address judgement trick - help to set aside please ****Claim Withdrawn****

[Signaller]

Thanks Andy, yet again, for replying. I have more questions to ask but will leave them until after the hearing, as they are to do with defending the claim.They are saying they agreed to lend me £x ' plus interest and charges' on x date.What they lent was much less than this, and confirmed on the copy of the agreement they sent.They still have not complied with my SAR.In your reply to my last post you mentioned CPR.Do I 'CPR' them if/when they start the claim over again.Would the claim for costs come in to play after the Set Aside or after (hopefully successfully) defending the claim. Thank You once again for your time..Regards..Signaller

[AndyOrch]

HI Sig

 

Thank you for the rep you are very welcome.Some recent threads on SaS,s the DJ,s have dispensed with preparation time to submit a defence and have accepted it at the the same hearing.So better start to prepare your defence now in readiness to this. CPR now you have a claim number .Costs start from the Set a Side in my book:wink:

 

Regards

 

Andy

[caro]

If costs become an issue, be ready to argue why you shouldn't pay them due to the problems you've experienced with them.

[Signaller]

Thank You both for taking the time out yet again.Regarding the defence of the CCJ, they have not sent a statement, DN,TN. The credit agreement looks ok but it does not confirm what they said on their claim to Northampton, ie; The claim says they agreed to lend me '£952.50 plus interest and charges on XX date, but the agreement says £750. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you could only request in a CPR what is mentioned in the PoC. Is the PoC the same as the box where it says what the case is for? I haven't seen a claim form because nothing was sent to me at my correct address.All I have is a printout of what they submitted online to Northampton, and all it mentions is what they say they lent me, and it is wrong. I also thought you could only CPR a company if you had received a claim form.You may remember I did SAR them but they only part complied, and after sending another letter for what was missing they have ignored the second letter.Regarding the costs, I can pay whatever fee I must but I wondered if I could claim my costs back, as I would not have had to spend all this time and money if they had followed the correct procedures. I haven't involved any of the authorities regarding the way they have handled this but I intend to. I will be on and off most of tonight, and look forward to any replies and further help/advice. Thank You..Regards..Signaller

[Signaller]

Received a letter today but they still have not complied. I asked for copies of DN and TN and they say that they are generated electronically and mailed out, and they do not retain hard copies.I have never received either of these. I asked for a statement and they claim one was sent with this letter but there was nothing in the envelope other than the one page letter I received today.I asked for all notes and letters regarding legal action taken by them. They ask me to be more specific, as they have sent me all correspondence regarding legal action.They have sent NOTHING ever, regarding legal action.They claim all calls are recorded but they say they have limited recording facilities, and they have sent no transripts at all, so I cannot prove the call I received in February from one of their no necks.I asked for copies of letters they claim to have sent me but they say they are generated electronically too, and they have no hard copies.There are other things missing but they still have not complied with my SAR. If I am to defend the claim ( assuming they start it over again) I need them to comply but they clearly have not. They say they they agreed to lend me £x plus interest and charges on the date the loan was approved, but this is not what it says on the loan agreement. What they say they lent me is a lot more than what they actually did lend. As I have said before, I am confident (largely down to the help I have received here) about the Set Aside, but how can I even start to defend the claim if they will not co-operate. Can someone please advise if/when you get the time.Thank You.Regards..Signaller

[Signaller]

Hi Again,up until recently I have been advised to concentrate on the Set Aside first. But in the last post by 'andyorch' I gather it's not unknown for a DJ to deal with a defence at the same time.As they originally started their claim online there were no documents attached to their claim.I am sure I do owe them something but as I said in an earlier post, their statement of case says ' we agreed to lend the defendant £951.20 plus interest and costs on (date)'. The agreement they sent in reply to my SAR is for £750. Is this a defence to the claim or only a part defence. Just to confirm, I have never received a DN, TN or LBA. I have no idea what I do actually owe them, although I AM sure it is much less than what they claim. I do understand those of you who advise and help us cannot reply immediately, and I do not expect an instant reply, but as soon as someone does have the time can you please advise further. Thank You so much..Regards..Signaller

[AndyOrch]

Hi Sig

 

Mounting a defence can be more simple than it appears.It doesn't need to be complicated.The fact the amount claimed is incorrect and can be proved could be enough.

After all would you sign and agree to an agreement were its states " you agreed to accept an offer of cash and interest and charges " why would you want to borrow charges? Why would you agree to an agreement of " Charges " surely you wouldn't borrow " charges " and then pay interest on them.

Forget the SAR if you have the agreement and know how much you borrowed less what you payed back plus what you defaulted on then you know roughly how much the claim amount should be.

 

The claim should have been defended initially you wasn't given the opportunity to defend for x y z reasons you therefore get your Set a Side.

Break the P.o.C down what did they claim, what did you breach, what did they send to allow you ro rectify the position. Dont try to build a defence from information that eludes you.Obviously a copy of the agreement and DN/NoA (if applicable) would be an advantage but in their absence you will have to prepare a defence blind

and base it on the wrong amount claimed.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Signaller]

Hi Andy, thank you for your quick reply. I take it that I would defend on the ammount claimed then. Yes, i know what I borrowed, but I honestly do not remember what I did actually repay. Thats one of the reasons I sent a SAR. They have not sent me a statement of account, and as I said there has been no DN,TN or LBA. Another reason for the SAR was to prove conclusively how they obtained the judgement in the first place and the subsequent AoE orderThey sent nothing to allow me to rectify. As I said at the beginning, the no neck who phoned me said he 'would get the AoE order one way or another'. It turns out that when I got that call in February, the default judgement was already in place, but I didn't know about it at that time.They did, and that's probably why the no neck was so confident he would get the AoE order. Even if I defend and win or lose, there must be some way of bringing them to book (so to speak) for the way they have conducted themselves. Thank You once again.Your advice/help is greatly appreciated..Regards..Signaller

[AndyOrch]

Have you ever actually requested a copy of the agreement Sig ie Section 77/78 request? From what you state looks like their retention of any paperwork is

minimal.Ok they dont have to retain copy's of the DN but must provide proof it was initiated and dispatched.They seem to evade your requests for statements and intentionally sought to not enclose it.They have issued proceedings and served them on an old address intentionally therefore abusing the process and misleading the court this is obvious because they did serve the AoE to the correct address.

Have you actually received the original PoC yet and what are the details and what documents do they refer to within the PoC agreement dated... DN dated ...?

Can you account for payments from your bank account statements?

Have you requested a copy of the judgment, date, which Court issued it and what was the payment instruction ie Forthwith?

 

Clarify the above Sig and we can move to the defence.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Signaller]

Hi Andy, thank you yet again for taking the time to reply. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I was at work (I am now) and didn't get the time to reply to you before I finished this morning.

 

• They made the claim online on 11/02/11 to Northampton.
  
• There were no documents supplied, although as far as I am aware they do not have to submit them if the claim is made online.
  
• The staff at my local County Court did give me a copy of what was submitted online, and where it says 'What the Case is For' it says as follows: "1st Stop Financial Services Limited agreed to lend the defendant £952.50 plus interest and charges on 22/06/09. This agreement was in writing. The defendant has failed to make repayments on the loan. Customer arrears are £762.40.The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 25/12/09 to 10/02/11 on £943.44 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of £1.55".
  
• Where is says case details is written/typed:Ammount Claimed - 943.44Court Fee - 60.00Total - 1003.44
  
• At the bottom of the form where my details are, it says date of service 16 - Feb -11.
  
• I received nothing because remember they gave the Court the wrong address.
  
• The Court staff confirmed that any correspondence was indeed sent to my previous address.
  
• I was given a copy of a form headed "Judgement for Claimant ( in default)".
  
• It says I have to pay the order by instalments of £152.48 per month.
  
• Bear in mind that when I received THAT call in February from the no neck, they were already aware of the Judgement and I knew nothing of it at that time.
  
• Skip forward to May when I received a copy of the AoE order telling my employer to deduct £50 per month until the Judgement is paid.
  
• They have been aware of my correct address since 03/12/09, and I have confirmation of this in their part response to my SAR.
  
• I do not know the date the CCJ was granted.
  
• I have not received the original PoC.
  
• As far as I am aware, whatever is to be relied upon at the hearing has to be disclosed to the other side.
  
• They have sent me nothing, and the hearing is on 22nd August. Should they have sent me whatever they are going to rely on?
  
• My knowledge is not as good as I would like it to be, but I'm sure I read somewhere on here that they do not have to comply with a CCA request if Judgement has already been granted, although they do have to comply with a SAR. That is why I did not send a Section 77/78 request.
  
• I only became aware of any action being taken against me when I received a copy of the AoE order from my local Court.
  

Sorry for another long post. I have tried to answer your questions, and I will be on and off line most of tonight, hoping you can reply to this. Thank You once again. You don't know how grateful I am to all of you who have replied to date..Regards..Signaller

Edited August 2, 2011 by caro
Making post easier to read

[Signaller]

Hello Guest. Please feel free to comment.

[AndyOrch]

I assume the warrant AoE is suspended then awaiting out come of your S a S application?

 

Andy

[Signaller]

Got a little busy during the night, but yes, all enforcement action is suspended for the time being. There was an ammount deducted from my pay in July but I was advised that this will be returned to me. I'll be finishing work soon, but will be back on later tonight...Signaller

[Signaller]

Andy, if/when you get the time, could you please advise further.I have to log off for now, but will pop back in before I finish work in the morning.Thank You..Regards..Signaller

[bazaar]

Hi, what youve listed in your post 110 is pretty much what you need to put across as your argument. Have you ever requested the statements via CPR? Using an old address is a big argument,

[AndyOrch]

Hi Sig

 

Im just posting this here because it will also be part of your defence and for my easy reference.

 

Filling in the Court Forms

 

If the creditor makes an application for an Attachment of Earnings Order, the court will send you a form to fill in called an N56. This asks you to fill in these details:

• name, address and number of dependants;
  
• your employer's details;
  
• your income and outgoings;
  
• any other credit debts and court orders that you have.
  

There is a section asking you to make an offer of payment that you can afford. You should fill this in and make sure you have included details of all your other debts and how much you are paying to other creditors. You can also ask the court to agree to make a Suspended Attachment of Earnings Order by ticking the box and filling in the reasons why you want a suspended order. This could be that you may lose your job or promotion prospects if your employer finds out you are in debt.

 

What happens if I don't send the forms back?

 

You must send the form back to the court within 8 days. It is an offence not to send back the form or to give false information. If you don't send back the N56 form the county court bailiffs will serve you with an order to fill it in. If you still don't contact the court then you will be sent a notice to go to a court hearing to explain why you have not given the court the information requested. You must go to this hearing. If you don't attend then the court can issue a warrant for you to be arrested and brought to court or even send you straight to prison.

You can be sent to prison for up to 14 days or fined simply for not following the court's instructions to fill in the form and go to the hearing.

Warning: if the creditor knows your employer's address the court can go directly to the employer and ask them to provide details of your earnings if you do not return the N56 form to the court.

 

 

I assume you completed the N56 Sig to enable the Claimant to execute the AoE? If not how did they get it through how did they know the correct address how did they know your employment details?

 

Something to consider.

 

Andy

[Signaller]

Hi Andy, and Bazaar, thank you both for taking the time out again. I did not CPR them because I thought you could only do that if you have received a claim form. Andy, I have never received a form N56. When I submitted my form N244 with the copies of the letters they had sent me in the past, and my statement, I was advised that copies would also be sent to the claimant, and I should also receive from them a copy of whatever they are going to rely on at the hearing. They have sent me nothing.Sorry I have not replied sooner but I had to leave work because my stepson had to attend hospital after they have discovered a shadow on his lung. I will be on most of this afternoon up until about 1930 tonight..Regards..Signaller

Sorry, I forgot to add that I think they may have my employment details from my application. Thats the only reason I can think of. Do they have to send the application form as paert of a SAR request? If so, they didn't send that either.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Signaller
Forgot to Add

[Signaller]

I will be finishing work shortly but will pop back in tomorrow around luchtime. I would be very grateful if someone can advise further. Thank You..Regards..Signaller

[Signaller]

Will have to sign off for a little while but will pop back in again before I finish around 1800...Andy, what I said in my last post about my work details, I meant in the original loan application. Having read other threads here, if a Court cannot serve papers on an individual, or there is no response, they notify the claimant who in turn are supposed to deliver the papers either personally or by first class post. I received NOTHING, and as I have said before, I was only aware of any action being taken against me when I received notification of the AoE order. I hope you can find the time soon, to advise further, as the hearing is on 22nd August..Regards..Signaller

[Signaller]

Is there anyone around, who can advise please? I have to log off now but will pop back in before I finish at 1800. Thank You..Regards..Signaller

[Signaller]

Have to go now, and may not be able to get back online until Monday morning. I would be extremely grateful if someone can advise further please. Thank You..Regards..Signaller

[caro]

Signaller, forgive me if I'm not too clear about what you're asking. From what I can make out you're sorted for the set aside but are concerned that the judge may want to hear the case at the same time. Is that right?

 

From what I can see, this is basically the POC that you need to defend.

 

[*]The staff at my local County Court did give me a copy of what was submitted online, and where it says 'What the Case is For' it says as follows: "1st Stop Financial Services Limited agreed to lend the defendant £952.50 plus interest and charges on 22/06/09. This agreement was in writing. The defendant has failed to make repayments on the loan. Customer arrears are £762.40.The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 25/12/09 to 10/02/11 on £943.44 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of £1.55".

[*]Where is says case details is written/typed:Ammount Claimed - 943.44Court Fee - 60.00Total - 1003.44

[Signaller]

Having a problem when I try to submit my reply, as it says I am not logged in, however I will try again and am having to type it all again.Caro, thank you for taking the time to reply to me.Although they have not yet complied fully with my SAR there is something in their part reply I feel I could use.As mentioned in an earlier post, I have a couple of letters from them which proves they were aware of my correct address and I was advised that this alone should be enough for the Set Aside.But I want to prove conclusively they were aware, and not give them a chance to claim it as an admin/clerical error.The DJ on the day may or may not decide to deal with the claim at the same time, but I am told it is not uncommon for this to happen.I honestly do not know what I do actually owe them, as they continue to refuse to send me a statement, amongst other things. I feel that to defend successfully, I need their compliance with my SAR.It seems likely they are not going to comply now. How would I go about defending based on what I have so far. And would I defend the whole of the claim or only part of it.Andyorch-- I asked the Court staff why was the claim sent to my old address and the notification of AoE order to my correct address and was advised that they sent letters to whichever address 1st Stop gave to them. There was never any mention though of form N56 until you mentioned it. I have never received one, and wasn't even aware of one until your last post.The hearing is on 22nd August but I am going to have to take a few days off to attend hospital with my stepson. I will find some way of getting access to the internet. Thank You to all of you who have helped/advised me so far..Regards..Signaller

[caro]

Well first things first. They need to prove what you owe them. If they can't do that I wonder if an application to have the case struck out might be in order.

[Signaller]

Thank You Caro, I'd never thought of that. I was a little concerned that the DJ might deal with the claim at the same time, but after thinking more about it, surely I would have to know about it beforehand to enable me to prepare a defence. As I've obviously not heard anything regarding that, I'll deal with it at the right time.I'll concentrate now on putting everything together for the hearing. Thank You once again for your time.Regards..Signaller