hfo services - help please

[fscot61]

hi,

 

been trying to read up on this topic but finding it hard to understand what I should be doing.

 

Yesterday I received a Court claim form with HFO Capital Limited as claimant.

The debt is from barclaycard and defaulted around may 2005 but I cant remember when I made a last payment. I know I made a few payments to a previous agency.

 

the debt is for around 3,000 and hfo contacted me demanding 5,000 which includes "their" interest.

 

they have been threatening me for ages and would not accept any payment other than the full amount even tho i explained i was self employed and had little work. consequently the debt has been running unpaid for years. Although I am now emplyed HFO still wont agree a payment and have now taken me to court.

 

The claim itself is strange as they are only asking for £225 "being installment arrears due" Which is rich considering I have never agreed anything with them.

 

 

the text on the form has omissions (dates and amounts) and is exactly as follows:

 

 

The claim is for monies due from defendant under an interest - bearing credit agreement. The Defendant defaulted on this agreement on. The Claimant HFO Services Limited (contact 0845 606 1560) is a services and collection company, which collects debts for HFO Capital Ltd. HFO Capital Ltd. purchased the Defendant's account and all rights and obligations attaching thereto from the original Lender on. Notice of assignment has been provided to the Defendant. The Claimant claims 225.00 being instalment arrears due from Defendant. On satisfaction of this claim and the costs there will be an unpaid balance of to be paid by the Defendant which is accruing interest at the contractual rate of 12% PA.

 

Why would they go for such a small amount ?

 

despite what they say on the claim form -I have never received any notice of assignment.

 

The issue date is 15 April.

 

Not sure what to do next.

 

I have 2 other debts

 

12,000 which is being paid off at £69 per month (and agreed amount between agency)

9,000 paid at£50 per month as per another court arrangement.

[coledog]

Hi

 

It is a 'split claim' - they are only claiming 'arrears' on something not being paid anyway! Don't worry this will be easy to defend.There have been a number of these so you are not alone.

 

What is the Claimants exact address on the form? What have you received from HFO before and have you ever made a CCA request to them?

 

You need to acknowledge the claim on line and say you are defending the whole claim. You then have 33 days from date of issue to submit a defence.

 

You will need to send a CPR request to Turnbulls which I will sort out for you and also speak to Barclaycard and ask exactly which company they sold the account to and exact date. Get them to confirm everything in writing. Also when the last payment was made. It will also be worth sending a SAR to Barclaycard in case HFO pursue this in the future

 

Barclaycard recoveries 0844 556 0066 if they are unhelpful, there is another number

[DonkeyB]

Oh bliss. HFO Capital purchased the debt from the original lender... Oh no it did not. And they aren't sure who the claimant is, Services or Capital. We'll knock this straight into touch.

 

Or you could simply pay it and they are stuffed for the rest!

[broken arrow]

Hi and welcome, do you know who the original creditor could be Morgan Stanley, Barclaycard? This is about the 7th of these divided claims on CAG, up to now once a defence has been submitted, HFO have not responded resulting in a stay.

You have 5 plus 14 days to acknowledge the claim and a further 14 days to submit a defence.

[broken arrow]

CPR request

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

CPR 31.12 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton county court. I confirm having returned my Acknowledgement of Service form to the court indicating my intention to contest all of the proceedings.

 

Owing to the striking lack of particularity in your Particulars of Claim, I require the prompt disclosure by you pursuant to CPR 31.12 of each of the following documents, mention or reference to which would have been made had the Particulars of Claim contained the minimum of necessary particulars and complied generally with CPR PD 16.

 

1 The agreement giving rise to the obligation to Barclaycard for the credit advanced. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 The deed or other instrument of assignment by which you / the Claimant acquired rights under the agreement disclosed by you under [1] above.

 

3 The default notice, the service of which was a condition precedent to the creation of the debt now sued upon by you pursuant to the assignment disclosed by you under [2] above.

 

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.12 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request.

 

If you are unable to comply with that part of this request concerned with CPR 31 and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with any part of this request or fail to request more time, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

[coledog]

Send the above letter to Turnbull Rutherford, recorded delivery - do not sign with normal signature, type your name with a swiggle above this (like solicitors do)

[coledog]

Or you could simply pay it and they are stuffed for the rest!

 

DB is quite correct, if you were to pay the £225 you would not get a CCJ recorded and could fight off any further court claims as the County Courts Act does not allow two claims for the same 'cause of action' see the thread below. I have not known of anyone who has tried this though, all the similar claims we have seen have been 'stayed', if defended. Hopefully if you do successfully defend, your defence will be enough to prevent them trying it again.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276741-Some-solicitors-using-Split-Claims-how-does-one-defend

[fscot61]

many thanks to everyone for replies.

 

sorry for delay I don't get on internet often.

 

original debtor was Barclaycard

 

address on claim form is :

 

hfo capital limited

roxburghe house

lavender park road

west byfleet

surrey

kt14 6yz

 

i have not sent CCA

 

I have received many threatening calls from hfo , many letters that were complete fabrications of the conversation. Basically i tell them to write to me and they send letter saying I owe lots of interest and i agreed to pay it off. They also claimed my direct debit would not complete due to a technical error ! (since they dont have my bank details I guess this is a technical error)

 

in july last year they wrote to offer me a settlement of £2681

 

In feb 2011 this settlement was now £3066

 

and in march they sent the 72 hour notice

 

 

as I understand it I Must:

 

respond online to acknowledge and intend to defend whole claim.

 

speak to barclaycard

 

and send above letter to Turnbull

 

 

 

The idea of paying the small amount is appealing -however I'd be worried that no-one has tested this theory and knowing my luck i'd be lumbered. What's to stop hfo just going thru the court for each instalment ?

 

 

I'm re-assured that this case can be "kicked into touch" but I'm not sure I understand how/why, and will I have to keep responding to additional claims by hfo and will my defence continue to be effective ?

[fscot61]

quick question - should I be contesting the jurisdiction - I'd rather not have to go to Northampton ?

[DonkeyB]

Jurisdiction is nothing to do with where the hearing is heard. It means the court system within which it is heard. So if you were in Scotland, for example, and the claim was issued in an English court, you could contest jurisdiction. So ‘No’ is the answer. The case will be automatically transferred to your local court anyway.

[Jasper1965]

Re the notice of assignment:

did you receive one and if so is it from HFO Capital or HFO services?

All HFO capital purchases were immediately assigned to HFO services between jan '06 and jan 11.

HFO services should be the claimant therefore I'm not sure why they've mentioned HFO capitals involvement.

 

"The claim is for monies due from defendant under an interest - bearing credit agreement. The Defendant defaulted on this agreement on. The Claimant HFO Services Limited (contact 0845 606 1560) is a services and collection company, which collects debts for HFO Capital Ltd. HFO Capital Ltd. purchased the Defendant's account and all rights and obligations attaching thereto from the original Lender on. Notice of assignment has been provided to the Defendant. The Claimant claims 225.00 being instalment arrears due from Defendant. On satisfaction of this claim and the costs there will be an unpaid balance of to be paid by the Defendant which is accruing interest at the contractual rate of 12% PA."

 

Suggest you start by attacking the existence/validity of any notice of assignment, you shoulkd have received one noa for the transfer from OC to HFO Capital and then a further noa for the transfer from HFO capital to HFO services. If you didn't then the assignment has not been properly executed and remains equitable.

 

There's some very interesting reading on the HFo assignment issue here.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?281377-Hfo-capital-limited&p=3173516&viewfull=1#post3173516

[fscot61]

I'm sure I received many letters over the years but don't have them all as they were lost during a divorce.

 

What I do have is an NOA sent by HFO services on 6/1/11 stating that my account has been sold to HFO capital. The sender then states "that it has been assigned to me" (ie him personally) and then signs the letter R Verma "hfo services". (in effect its been assigned to someone who works for a different company)!

 

am I right but this appears to be the opposite direction of the thread you mention in your last post, which refers to transfers from capital to services rather than services to capital?

 

 

I've now put in the AOS online

 

thanks

[fscot61]

just read some later letters and although they are not headed as Notice of Assignment they state in the text :

 

As notified to you ( ie the NOA letter sent 6/1/11) your account.... etc has been sold to HFO Services ?

[Jasper1965]

this is a little confusing at the moment. In post 1 you open by saying "Yesterday I received a Court claim form with HFO Capital Limited as claimant. " then the POC's state the claimant to be "HFO Services Limited (contact 0845 606 1560)".

 

Can you just double check these facts please?

[fscot61]

yes everything is as stated. the claimant is Capital, the POC is services, the NOA is capital, and subsequent letters are services!!!

[DonkeyB]

Oh bliss. HFO Capital purchased the debt from the original lender... Oh no it did not. And they aren't sure who the claimant is, Services or Capital. We'll knock this straight into touch.

 

Or you could simply pay it and they are stuffed for the rest!

 

As mentioned earlier Jasper – quite a normal PoC for the village idiots at HFO. They constantly leave bits out and get the claimant/PoC wrong. Whoever puts them together must be the chief idiot and lead money waster.

[Jasper1965]

thought so they've put so much effort into attempting to deceive the public that once again they've managed to confuse themselves.

 

Now we know from the documents posted on the other thread and as confirmed by the HFO services later letters you mention "As notified to you ( ie the NOA letter sent 6/1/11) your account.... etc has been sold to HFO Services ?" that sales to HFO Capital are immediately assigned to HFO Services.

The POC's then go on to confirm that HFO Capital purchased the account and all rights and obligations and then confirms that an noa was issued to you.

The POC's also make it clear that HFO services is an agent and collects debts (including this one) for HFO capital.

 

Can you see the problem they have?

 

The claim has been made by HFO Capital when by virtue of the (confirmed ergo absolute) assignment to HFO services they have no right to action.

HFO services should have made the claim in their own name but didn't.

Even without the existence of the CP2 doc they would struggle here as you luckily have documentary proof that the account was assigned to HFO services before the claim was started.

As you received no further noa that the account had been reassigned to HFO capital then it's a given that they have no right to action as any right to action belongs to HFO services.

Why HFO services chose to litigate on behalf of HFO Capital for an account they lawfully owned themselves can probably only be described as crass incompetence so used as they are at attempting to hoodwink the legal system.

[sillygirl1]

Could it be that HFO Capital do not have any legal right to take people to court in England from either the Cayman Islands or Ireland.... and are using HFO Services as their 'patsy' company or is that too simplistic a breakdown?

[broken arrow]

As these claims are through MCOL, I would,nt be surprised if they were being done from India, the POC,s are very poor even for HFO standards, the actual claimant HFO Capital, Dublin mob are not registered at Roxburghe House, West Byfleet, that is Services.

 

The important point everyone off these so far that have been defended have ended in a stay, I know of 7 and that figure could well be 9 in a few weeks, they just don,t respond to a defence, wasting courts time comes to mind.

[broken arrow]

Could it be that HFO Capital do not have any legal right to take people to court in England from either the Cayman Islands or Ireland.... and are using HFO Services as their 'patsy' company or is that too simplistic a breakdown?

 

At my set aside hearing SG the Judge was happy with the Dublin HFO having jurisdiction as they are an in a EU country, but not the Cayman company, they admit this themselves virtue of CP2.

[Jasper1965]

As mentioned earlier Jasper – quite a normal PoC for the village idiots at HFO. They constantly leave bits out and get the claimant/PoC wrong. Whoever puts them together must be the chief idiot and lead money waster.

[broken arrow]

Out of interest have you asked Barclaycard who the account was sold to? as it might be neither HFO Capital Cayman, Dublin or Services.

[broken arrow]

As I have stated in the past, these potential divided claims, just going for arrears are a cheap way of getting default judgements, once a default judgement is in place, they will threaten further legal action for the rest relying on the judgement debtors ignorance.

[DonkeyB]

And there, jasper, is yet another problem! The PoC claims the account was bought by HFO Capital Ltd (which we MUST assume is the claimant) from the original creditor, but it wasn’t. Setting aside the CP2 document (instant assignment from HFO Cayman to HFOS), there’s the small problem of the assignment from HFO Cayman to HFO Ireland in January 2008. So the account was not bought by the claimant from the original lender. The PoC is therefore fatally flawed.

[broken arrow]

there’s the small problem of the assignment from HFO Cayman to HFO Ireland in January 2008.

Small problem, they wish..........