Engine Problems on a new Ford Fiesta

[Kimmy7]

Hi, Can anyone tell me where I stand with a new car that has developed engine problems.

 

I brought the car with cash in September from a Ford main dealer and have driven 4000 miles when the engine went. Fords replaced the engine but after only 400 miles the new engine has now developed problems and Fords want to replace it.

 

Consumer pages on the internet say as the car was under 6 months old, go back to the dealership, which I did but they dont want to know and say get in touch with Ford.

 

Am I within my rights to ask for a new car or my money back? Currently car is in the Ford garage - What do I do?

 

thanks for the help

[m0jpm]

dont buy ford.. cheap and nasty

[Kimmy7]

Thanks M0jpm, I know that now LOL. I was looking for something more constructive:-)

[Hammy1962]

dont buy ford.. cheap and nasty

 

Based on what evidence? Or is it just another sweeping generalisation based on actually nothing, just a mis-guided personal opinion.

 

Back to the point. Did you buy the car new or was it pre-owned?

What happened to the original engine? What was the fault?

What has happened to the second engine? What is the fault?

 

'Fords' as you put it, would not have done anything as they are the manufacturer. However a Ford dealer is who you are probably dealing with. Which dealer is it, where, and why do you think they, the dealer, want you to contact Ford as this is very 'unusual'

 

Give us as much info as you can and I'm sure we can help.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Hammy1962

[m0jpm]

Car is obviously not fit for purpose according to the sale of goods act 1979

[Hammy1962]

Why, specifically?

 

It is impossible to determine what the fault is from the information given in the first post.

 

We should wait for a more complete explanation as to exactly what happened. I have a feeling though, we won't get what is required.

 

For a start paying for a car used or new, in cash is not so usual.

 

Hammy

[sailor sam]

According to the OP the car is new. The OP's claim is with the dealer who sold him the car. I am assuming that the dealer has provided the OP with a courtesy car while the situation is being sorted. I believe they can have 3 attempts with a new car before having to consider replacing it.

 

Go back to the dealer and give them a deadline to sort things out (I suggest no more than 14 days) or you will consider legal proceedings under the SOGA.

[Kimmy7]

We brought the car new from a Ford dealership with Cash (No Finance).

When my husband was doing the weekly checks he noticed that the car had oil in the header tank ( we had done 4000 miles and the car is just less than 6 months old) we stopped driving the car and we booked it in for repair under the warranty at the Ford garage. The garage got a Ford Engineer to inspect the engine and we were then informed that the engine needed to be replace. We had problems with the garage as we did not believe they did the job properly and the car went back and forth a few times.

 

Once we had the car a few days, we noticed a slight noise when driving about 50mph. we thought that this was the engine settling in. My husband noticed oil on our drive and saw a slight oil leak. We booked the car back into the garage for this to be repaired. Before the car got back to the garage for the oil leak, the engine started to get a lot noisier. When we took the car back we told the garage that it needs looking into.

 

Meanwhile we had been in touch with Ford Customer service (who have actually been helpful) and we explained that we do not have confidence in the garage and if the engine now needs replacing again then we wanted a new car. They said we had to go to the dealership.

 

The garage got a Ford engineer to inspect the replacement engine and yes we need a new one. (this replacement engine had only done 400 miles) We told the garage we wanted a new car

 

Went to the Dealership, who deny any responsibility, and say we must take it up with Fords head office. They were rather rude and said "You may want a new car but you are not going to get on"

 

I have wrote to the dealership today to say under the SOGA they are responsible and we want a replacement car or our money refunded, I believe this was correct thing to do

Edited April 20, 2011 by Kimmy7

[sailor sam]

Exactly the right thing to do. Also, if they refuse to provide a courtesy car, I would advise them that you reserve the right to hire one and present them (or Ford) the bill. You may also contact Ford again and say that their dealer is being far from helpful and as such, you may persue a full refund and whereby you will choose an alternative manufacturer.

[raydetinu]

really sympathise with you, not what you would expect from a main dealer at all.

You deserve a new car just for the hassle. It is not a marginal complaint when an engine fails twice!

Ha ve you thought of writing/ emailing one the motoring magazines that help desparte consumers out, they can get results as the bad publicity not good.

[scaniaman]

Raydetinue, your post 10, third paragraph refers to magazines who may help people with problems. It would be of great help if you could name such magazines, as i could really do with this sort of help.

Thanks in advance.

[sailor sam]

Raydetinue, your post 10, third paragraph refers to magazines who may help people with problems. It would be of great help if you could name such magazines, as i could really do with this sort of help.

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

Most motoring magazines have a 'reader's letters' section where you can post problems, questions or praises even! Top Gear is one that springs to mind. While I agree that no manufacturer (especially in current times) do not want bad publicity, in this case the fault appears to be with the dealer who is saying to the OP to 'got direct to Ford'. And strangely enough Ford are saying that he must deal with the dealer. Clearly at some point, you would of thought that Ford would now take a more direct approach although strictly speaking, the OP's contract is with the seller. So it would appear that there is little option but to follow the SOGA route which as we know can be a very long one. The OP is certainly in a much stronger position than if he had bought a used car and I am suprised that the dealer is taking this stance as he should know that he is in a no win situation in the long run. Unfortunately though, it could be many months for the OP to get satisfaction by taking court action. This is why I suggest that the OP contacts Ford again and make clear to them his intentions which could include referring the matter to Consumer direct and indeed involving the media. In the meantime, a LBA (final letter before action) to the dealer informing that the car is being rejected, would be the next formal step. I suggest that from now on, all correspondence (especially with the dealer) is done in writing and sent by recorded delivery.

[raydetinu]

Autocar, autoexpress are the ones that do this sort of thing.

In your discussions with the dealer you could mention that these mags may be interested in this story!

[heliosuk]

Hi Kimmy,

 

In this case I'd be inclined to follow the advice of Hammy. Forget SOGA for the time being as you are out of time for a start to reject.

 

There are too many people posting on this site quoting SOGA chapter and verse and getting peoples hopes up. SOGA is not as clear cut as many people seem to think. In fact some of the advice offered and obviously taken up has led to a lot of tears and expense.

 

Try to resolve the issue via the dealer and Ford customer service before starting or threatening SOGA. As soon as you start shouting SOGA companies back away from what was a quite positive dialouge albeit painfully slow.

 

You also need to remember that the dealer or any other franchised dealer is not obliged to give you a courtesy car, another myth that frequently crops up, or are they obliged to pay for hire costs. These would only be covered in a legal claim under subsequential cost should it ever get to court.

 

There is a big difference between what the consumer expects and what is actually the case and the dealers obligations from a moral and legal point of view.

 

Listen to what Hammy has to say about it before taking note of any other posts.

[aradam]

Hi Kimmy, Heliosuk hit the mail bang on the head, talk to ford and hope they help you in the end, I went down the soga path, and now lost most of my mony to court and still have a broken car that I am now going to try to fix for cheap, and cheap means at least a 1000, for a car I boughr for 3500, and we all tought I was going to win the case.

[sailor sam]

Hi Kimmy,

 

In this case I'd be inclined to follow the advice of Hammy. Forget SOGA for the time being as you are out of time for a start to reject.

There are too many people posting on this site quoting SOGA chapter and verse and getting peoples hopes up. SOGA is not as clear cut as many people seem to think. In fact some of the advice offered and obviously taken up has led to a lot of tears and expense.

 

Try to resolve the issue via the dealer and Ford customer service before starting or threatening SOGA. As soon as you start shouting SOGA companies back away from what was a quite positive dialouge albeit painfully slow.

 

You also need to remember that the dealer or any other franchised dealer is not obliged to give you a courtesy car, another myth that frequently crops up, or are they obliged to pay for hire costs. These would only be covered in a legal claim under subsequential cost should it ever get to court.

 

There is a big difference between what the consumer expects and what is actually the case and the dealers obligations from a moral and legal point of view.

 

Listen to what Hammy has to say about it before taking note of any other posts.

 

Helio, what are you talking about? Clearly the original fault ocurred within the first 6 months and although there is no specific time scale stated, the OP may still have an avenue to persue a replacement or a refund under SOGA. Are you saying that after buying a NEW car for around £10,000 cash the consumer has no rights after it has only done less than 5,000 miles? This link may clarify; http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/consumer_leaflets/cars/oft707.pdf Also, nobody said that the OP is legally entitled to a courtesy car BUT, I think he would have a pretty dam good case in invoicing the dealer for a hire car as he has supplied a brand NEW car which was not fit for the purpose. While working at a main dealer, I clearly remember a number of times us having tio supply courtesy cars in circumstances where customers have had problems with new cars. You suggest that the OP 'tries to resolve matters with the dealer...' It appears that the OP has already persued that path without success although I agree that contacting Ford Customer Service would be my next step, after all that is what they are there for. Following that Helio, I would be interested in your suggestion if that also fails.

 

@ Aradam; with respect this is a different ball game to your case as your car was used. Having said that, I still beleive that you should appeal.

[aradam]

I know Sam but I was under the ilusion soga was a law and judges should obey the law I am still now very confused with the evidence there was that one judge literally quotes the soga from a law book and warns the defendant and the second judge just looks at the investigation and rules I am the claimant so I have to proof that the car had a fault, while my evidence and reports were based on what the fist judge said, I am imagining this can happen to any person, but I won't confuse this thread more I just wanted to say that it is not allways looks what it is, and what I went through wasn't even worth £10000,-- in my case just because a dodgy dealer.

[heliosuk]

With respect Sam, the fault occurred within 6 months which the dealer purportedly fixed by fitting a new engine. Gut feel is this didn't happen. If it did happen then this would be evident by looking at the engine number and comparing to that of the log book. Again if it did happen, there is no mention of the purported root cause of the issue which is why Ford probably want the engine back to find out what is going on.Although I do not work for Ford I request part fail returns on a regular basis even if just a bolt has failed.So at the moment what is going on is not unusual.

 

However in a situation like this with a customer shouting SOGA the shutters will come down as dealer and manufactuer have to protect their position and will do. It also does not do any good demanding things like courtesy cars which are under pressure all the time anyway in a dealership.There is a big difference between what a dealer is legally obliged to do and what they are morally obliged to do and I think you might be getting confused between the two.

 

Advice is to pursuit via Ford Customer Service and steer well clear of SOGA for the time being. Handled correctly by Ford which in my experience they are rather successfull at, I very much doubt we will hear much more. You too support this.

 

My point is that frequently we get people shouting SOGA and especially the 6 month ruling which is NOT clear cut, is especially easy to defend and is frankly about as much use as a chocolate teapot when it comes to cars, either new or used. People who constantly refer posters to SOGA should bear this in mind before doing so.

 

You might like to refer to some of Lord Dennings rulings and speeches???

[sailor sam]

You raise an interesting question there Helio; is it in fact a replacement complete engine? Good point in checking the VIN numbers but according to the OP the car is at the dealers. Yes indeed I do support the suggestion of returning to Ford themselves but the OP has had little success so far with the 'softly softly' approach. As far as a courtesy car is concerned, most (if not all) manufacturers will authorize the use of one (and funding it) in circumsatnces where a customer has parted with a large amount of hard earned cash in buying one of their products to save them using public transport and has gone wrong in spectaular fashion. Obviously it is up to the dealer to arrange this which they may not unless asked. I do not believe I used the term 'demand'. If the case does end up in going to court, consiquential losses (such as car hire ect) could also be claimed. I agree that sometimes SOGA is not clear cut and there is no definative set period of what is a 'reasonable time' (or however it is put), BUT it is all we have to follow if every other avenue fails with the seller. Unless of course you have another suggestion?

 

Hopefully the OP has followed the advise of contacting Ford again in a slightly more robust way. Can he please keep us updated.

[Hammy1962]

Guy's, I well aware that, certainly on this forum, it's more often than not a case of 'Guilty until proven innocent' but are you really suggesting that a franchised dealer would put his franchise at risk by making up such a huge lie as to whether or not a new engine was fitted. The OP has even implicated the technical rep.

 

I still don't think we are being given the whole story.

 

Suggestions like the one above, with the greatest respect Heliosuk, do no good at all..............purportedly.

 

Hammy

[heliosuk]

Hammy, you know as well as I do the chances of a manufactuer replacement engine failing within 400 miles is extremly remote and to have two failures with the same failure mode runs into millions to one. As you say perhaps we do not have the full tale. Not unusual on this forum however.As you say more often than not the guilty finger is pointed. Perhaps it's time to say think before taking action or threatening to.

 

If you would like to take note of post 8, this reports an oil leak after a supposed full engine replacement..........er very unlikely. More likely a major repair.

 

Seems to me dealer is telling porkies which is why I say along with you that this needs to be handled by Ford customer service.

 

As you imply and that I fully support the issue needs to be dealt with via Ford customer service and as I have suggested threatening the use of SOGA automatically gets dealers and manufactuers to take a back foot which ultimately means it takes longer to resolve.

 

Essentially, every day a dealer puts his franchise at risk by allowing sales people to tell lies, employing service advisors/receptionists who frequently don't know what they are talking about and supposed mechanics who I'd be unwilling to let loose on my bicycle.

 

Que sera sera!!!

[Kimmy7]

Hammy, I can assure you, you are getting the whole story. I came onto this web site to try and get some help as I feel frustrated and angry about my car and being given the run around by the dealer and don't know where to go or what to do. If I don't tell the story right, I wont get the right help. If you have a specific question, ask, or what is it you feel I am not saying?

 

My previous threads tells the tale... After going to the the dealership, the dealer denied all responsibility. Fords Customer Relations informed us that it was down to the dealership so we went back, and they denied responsibility again. So we sent them a letter saying we want a replacement car or refund under SOGA. The dealer telephoned us the next day, saying it is their policy to repair and not replace. My husband asked them to put that in writing to us and have not heard anything yet. Ford Customer Relations have been very helpful, but have said that they cannot help getting a replacement as it the responsibility of the dealership. The car has had 2 replacement engines. It was brought new in september 2010 and the first engine went just within 6 months of us purchasing the car. The Ford garage have been the ones who have said the engine needs replacing, We took the car back under the warranty the first time because there was oil in the water tank, and the second time (after only doing 400 miles) because there was an oil leak and the engine was noisy. we do not know what has caused the problems, it is the garage that has said that we need new engines. It is only the engine that is being replaced not the gear box or anything like that. We believe that it cant do the car much good keep having the engine removed. At the end of the day, we want a car that is reliable and free of defects. An old banger of a car may only have one engine in its whole life, mine has had 3 now and is only 7 months old.

 

I am trying to find our whether we are within our rights asking for a replacement or a refund and what do we have to do to get a satisfactory outcome.

[Kimmy7]

Hammy, Can't PM as only got 4 Posts, ..... but I should have 5 now, so will give it another try

[sailor sam]

Hammy, I can assure you, you are getting the whole story. I came onto this web site to try and get some help as I feel frustrated and angry about my car and being given the run around by the dealer and don't know where to go or what to do. If I don't tell the story right, I wont get the right help. If you have a specific question, ask, or what is it you feel I am not saying?

 

My previous threads tells the tale... After going to the the dealership, the dealer denied all responsibility. Fords Customer Relations informed us that it was down to the dealership so we went back, and they denied responsibility again. So we sent them a letter saying we want a replacement car or refund under SOGA. The dealer telephoned us the next day, saying it is their policy to repair and not replace. My husband asked them to put that in writing to us and have not heard anything yet. Ford Customer Relations have been very helpful, but have said that they cannot help getting a replacement as it the responsibility of the dealership. The car has had 2 replacement engines. It was brought new in september 2010 and the first engine went just within 6 months of us purchasing the car. The Ford garage have been the ones who have said the engine needs replacing, We took the car back under the warranty the first time because there was oil in the water tank, and the second time (after only doing 400 miles) because there was an oil leak and the engine was noisy. we do not know what has caused the problems, it is the garage that has said that we need new engines. It is only the engine that is being replaced not the gear box or anything like that. We believe that it cant do the car much good keep having the engine removed. At the end of the day, we want a car that is reliable and free of defects. An old banger of a car may only have one engine in its whole life, mine has had 3 now and is only 7 months old.

 

I am trying to find our whether we are within our rights asking for a replacement or a refund and what do we have to do to get a satisfactory outcome.

 

Their 'policy' can be anything they make it but it dosn't necessarly mean that it complies with consumer law. Also, their 'policy' cannot remove or replace your statatoury rights so they can quote chapter and verse but it would'nt get them very far in court where it would be decided whether their obligations end by numerous attempts at reparing what is supposed to be a new engine.

 

You now appear to be reaching the end of the 'amicable' road of approach so I would now be consulting trading standards/consumer direct who will hopefully confirm that after 3 attempts at a repair, then either a refund is negotaited (based on age and mileage) or a replacement vehicle will avoid you taking the dealer to court. Having said that, I am really surprised that Ford themselves have not taken a more active approach to this.

[Hammy1962]

 

Hammy