What on earth do I do?

[WGG]

I'm a grown man and I'm sat here almost in tears. I just got a letter to say I'd failed my ESA medical, with 0 points. I can't understand how they'd seriously say that. It's a bit of a long story (aren't they all?) so I'll start back in October.

 

I got my IB medical with Atos in October. The first medical I'd had for 3 years or so. The one 3 years before that, I'd failed then appealed, and the appeal was successful.

 

I failed the one last October (I got 8 points out of the 10 I needed), and appealed. I didn't hear a thing between then and January.

 

In January I heard back that my appeal had been unsuccessful, and I sent off for my tribunal. It's in ~6 weeks.

 

In the meantime, the JC advised me to claim ESA. I got a medical for that last Monday. Today I got a letter telling me I'd failed it, and I'd gotten 0 points.

 

Now, I've no idea how I managed 0 points. It's clear that they lied this time again. The one I had in October they lied about, and I know because I sneakily recorded it.

 

I TRIED to record the one last week, rather more blatantly, thinking that if they knew I was recording it they wouldn't lie this time, but when the woman who was set to interview me saw my recorder she told me we couldn't continue with the interview. We had an argument and she refused to continue with the interview.

 

I spoke to another person at Atos, and they told me I could arrange for a "professional recording" of the interview, but there were terms and conditions that had to be met, and it'd have been prohibitively expensive. I have no money whatsoever because I've had a grand total of 35 pounds in benefits since October.

 

So, it was clear that waiting and paying for someone to record the interview professionally was out of my budget, because I have no money therefore no budget. It was agreed that I'd go ahead with the interview without recording it. I really had no option, and felt forced into it. I was worried they'd lie again, and misrepresent what I said, and it turns out they did. To be honest, going from 8 points in October to 0 in March, when my mental health has gotten worse, it seems to me like they screwed me over on purpose because I attempted to record the interview and accused them of being liars.

 

So it's now April the 1st. They've given me 35 pounds to live on since October. My credit card is maxed out. I've borrowed hundreds of pounds just for food and necessities. I've had to move in with my girlfriend because my mother, whom I was living with before, cannot afford to keep me. I was planning on moving in with my girlfriend, but not under these circumstances. I wasn't planning on being a burden. She knew I was mentally ill, and she was prepared for that kind of burden, but she's going without to keep me fed and clothed. God bless her she's kept me and looked after me, and not grumbled any more about it than she grumbles about everything else.

 

So given that I've had two medicals that I failed, I'm waiting on my tribunal for the first one, and the JC have put appeal forms for the most recent ATOS interview in the post to me today, what should I do?

 

Would writing to my MP help? I've seen people mention that they got things sorted by speaking to their MP.

 

What about CAB? Should I head to the CAB on Monday morning?

 

I really feel as if nothing will help this situation.

 

My health problems, just in case it'll help someone advise me:

 

Since my teens I've had mental health problems. It came and went, but since my mid 20s it's been a really serious problem. A lot of the time I can't leave the house. I can't answer the phone, if the door gets knocked and I'm not expecting someone I just ignore it and hope they go away. I have trouble dealing with people. On the days I can go out to the shops, I'll use the automated checkouts to avoid having to talk to a checkout assistant.

 

I have depression, stress and anxiety problems, connected to what seems to be IBS. When I'm particularly nervous about going out my bowels will just give out. I've lost count of the number of times I've been on the way out the door but I've had to dash to the loo, and cancel going out.

 

I don't even feel comfortable about people coming to see me, most of the time. I try not to arrange to see people, and if my girlfriend has friends round it really stresses me out, even though I've known them for years and consider them to be friends too.

 

My physical health is suffering because I don't get any exercise. I used to walk a lot, or cycle. I've put on 4 stone in the last 5 years. Walking to the shops round the corner tires me out. Taking the bins out exhausts me. I seem to have no energy at all.

 

I haven't had particularly dark thoughts for a long time, but right now I'm wondering what the point is. It seems like they're going to screw me no matter what. I don't have any hope for this appeal, or the upcoming tribunal. I've got no money whatsoever. I owe so much money, I've been counting on getting this sorted and getting my money backdated so I can pay off the debts that receiving no benefits has saddled me with.

 

I don't understand how they can do this to people. Their lies and messing me around are affecting my health directly. They just don't seem to care.

[rightsforme]

Hi WGG

I really feel for you, ATOS are liars and I had to go through this charade and won on appeal though it took 9 months for tribunal. I would suggest that you go and see CAB or welfare rights asap and put in an appeal. They can help take the pressure off you in dealing with it and make sure that you get some sort of payment in the meantime and help obtain your medical evidence.

[Guest jsa12]

you really need to stop using that credit card,your more then likely to be making minimum payments and there is a possibility of landing deeper and deeper in debt if they continually raise the limit irresponsibly.

 

mental health problems are very serious and can lead vulnerable people who risk exploitation,there are people who can help a debt adviser at my local authority sent me paperwork she wrote to my gp and the gp replied saying because of my illness i was spending out of control,i don't know if the debts will be written off but it exposes the risks to people with illnesses reckless lending and the results.the dwp should not use a credit card as a means of support if there is no other income too.mental health problems can and do mean extreme difficulty in finding and maintaining employment as often there are large gaps in any employment,i was told when i raised questions regarding mental health the reply was less then helpful.you are entitled to jobseekers allowance hardship provision which is for people who cannot work and you are in a vulnerable group,it could be that thy are seeing your girlfriend is supporting you and this is having an effect on your own benefits also.

[flumps1976]

Jobseeking hardship is only for jobseekers who have received a sanction on the jsa claim. You cannot get it for ESA.

Why were you not receiving the initial rate of ESA, (sorry I am not ESA trained) have you appealed against the decision to disallow your claim for ESA.

[Guest jsa12]

well there doesnt look to be anything else he can claim he can apply for jobseekers and be disadvantaged in the extent of his illness,you are ignoring atos and the "criteria" when everyone is stating the same then it can be only obviously something is badly wrong. the main aim is to place people on jobsekers allowance for various reasons'.he can appeal but it would be wise to obtain medical evidence from health professionals' to back this up,people with mental heath problems are the highest group likely of all disabilities to be be out of work at best 80% are unemployed its more likely 90% + there is no disguising these appalling figures that exclude people for for a multitude of reasons'.

 

this is an horrendous story but sadly typical.

Edited April 1, 2011 by jsa12

[WGG]

Thanks folks, it's good to know I'm not alone in this.

 

I'll go to CAB on Monday morning, and I'll put together an email to my MP over the weekend I think. I've stopped using the credit card (small limit, was meant to be for emergencies, so it's done its job).

 

I'm not officially staying with my girlfriend, as far as the JC know I'm still at my mum's, who's also on benefits, and couldn't afford to buy my food etc.

 

I've no idea why I'm not receiving the initial rate of ESA, should I be? I got one ESA payment of 37.40 on January the 11th, but that's all I've had since the 14th of October. I submitted the doctor's lines as soon as they were requested.The forms to appeal against the ESA decision are in the post to me right now.

 

I haven't worked in a few years now. The last place I worked I had to leave due to illness. I was in a pretty bad way at that time, and although I liked my job and tried to keep it, I was just having too much time off ill, and they let me go. I know that if they tried to force me to get a job I'd just make a mess of it again. I'm not stable enough to be a reliable employee. Most days I can't leave the house, never mind put in an 8 hour shift.

 

Is there someone around who knows a lot about ESA? Should I have been receiving the basic rate of ESA? They told me I couldn't get anything until I had the medical I just got last week. The JC don't seem to know what they're talking about, ATOS lie, and I don't know what to do next.

[RaeUK]

Hi WGG, you've got me stumped! The system is quite straightforward. You apply for ESA and receive £65(ish) each week for the 12 week assessment period. During which time you have a 'medical' (ha! ha!) with ATOSH. Most will fail to get 15 points. You then appeal. During this time - between 6 and 10 months or so of waiting - you continue at the assessment rate of £65 per week. You then have your tribunal and, quite possibly, fail that. You then start all over again by applying for ESA ... etc. No idea why you only receive £35 or so. Doesn't sound like the ESA I've grown to love and cherish ...

Rae

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Have you been providing the medical certificates?

 

Just thought that if not maybe thats why they have stopped payment, saying that I would have hoped they would have contacted you about it.

[RaeUK]

Good point, Watching, I meant to mention the continual med certs in my post! [glad you're watching ... ]

Rae

[lilly of the valley]

Hi there,

 

Take no notice of the points received by Atos, you will find they score the majority of people 0 points. I got 0 points, I am still waiting for my day at the tribunal when I know I will get what I deserve, I am also looking forward to the money which they will be backdating - I have not bought a new handbag in ages, looking forward to this day.

 

When you start claiming ESA you are paid at the assessment phase rate of £65.45 (if over 25) for the first 13 weeks of your claim while a decision is made on your capability for work through the Work Capability Assessment. You will eventually be sent for your ATOS medical after 13 weeks, if ATOS award you the necessary points then your rate should go up to £91.40 if in the work related group or £96.85 if in the support group. In your case you was awarded 0 points which means you then have to appeal against the decision, once the ESA office is in receipt of your appeal you should continue to receive £65.45 up until your tribunal. The tribunal will then decide whether or not you should be in receipt of ESA, the tribunal rule in favour of the claimants more times than not. If the tribunal rule in your favour the rate you should have got after 13 weeks will be backdated (the extra £25 +).

 

You may not be up to speaking with anyone from the ESA section but I would advise you to keep in contact with them, you should at this stage be in receipt of something. Once your money is reinstated be sure to send in your doctor sicknotes as ESA will not be paid without them. Do what needs to be done, you will feel better for it, don't be discouraged, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

L x

[flumps1976]

If you aren't comfortable speaking to someone on the phone about your claim then I would suggest calling the contact centre number to request an AJCS appointment with a customer service person at your local jobcentre to discuss your case. Please be aware that the person in the JCP office that you will see is highly unlikely to know much about ESA (put my hands as you can see from my earlier post I know very little about it but learning bits from this forum) but they can lase by telephone with the ESA processing team to establish exactly what is going on with your claim. Have you got anyone that can go to the appointment with you for support?

[lilly of the valley]

Hi Flumps1976, the above way is quite long and drawn out, all WGG needs to do is speak to the first person that will pick the phone up when calling dwp, he will need to give them his NI number and pass his security check (WGG will pass this because he has the information that they will be needing). WGG if you find it difficult speaking to them pass the phone to someone who will speak on your behalf but explain to DWP that you will be doing this. Kelcou is correct when she says that the system is quite straightforward, it is they do mess you about a lot but you have to hold your head up and go for what you know you deserve.

 

I worked for my last company for 16 years and was dismissed due to ill health, I have not enjoyed dealing with the likes of DWP, ATOS or ESA but I have paid my dues into the system and will get what I know I deserve, it is not alright for them to treat me like I am some kind of scrounger, I know who I am and I could never be that, I like myself too much. WGG believe me when I say this, DWP, ATOS and ESA do not care about people so you have to do all the caring for yourselve and go for what you know you deserve.

 

I kept in constant contact with them, they were the ones who told me that I had failed the medical but received the actual letter from them advising me of this 2 months later, I had sent my appeal letter in long before that, they sent it back to me so I could put another date on it, so much nonsense was going on with them but there is always that driving force behind me to dig my heels in when I feel as though I am being treatly unfairly. I, like yourself cried at times but crying seems to give me that added strength to go on, strange I know.

 

You are not well and they are adding stress and bad feelings to your condition, don't give them the satisfaction, they love it when people do not bother, be bothered WGG and find strength to go on, we are all behind you.

 

As soon as they receive your appeal they will backdate your money but you will need to provide a doctor sicknote to cover you from last year October to date if they do not have one at present.

 

L x

[WGG]

Hi folks, thanks a million for taking the time to reply and give me advice, I really appreciate it.

 

So basically I should definitely have been receiving reduced rate ESA so far? Because I've received one payment of £37-ish, and nothing since. They've got my medical lines. I'm all medical-lined-up until, iirc, roughly a month from now. I know the JC have made a total mess of my claim, because I received a letter in January asking me to send medical certificates, with a deadline of the end of October for getting them in. That was the first contact they made since I made my claim in October. My time machine's broken, so I'm not sure exactly what they expected me to do.

 

I've just done a quick calculation, and if I should've been getting £65.45 a week, that's £1586 I should have been paid so far, minus the £37 they paid me in January.

 

I'll be phoning them on Monday I guess. I'm not looking forward to phoning, but my girlfriend isn't very good at using phones either, so she'd be as much use as me!

 

It's disgusting that they'd treat people like this. I'm lucky enough to live in a country with these safety nets for when things go wrong in your life, but the system has to change, it's making people worse. There was a time when this kind of stress would have made me seriously consider ending it all, and I'm sure there are plenty of people in that position right now. To think that the way ATOS etc treat people could potentially push them over the edge... Soulless bastards.

[flumps1976]

I know that the AJCS is a drawn out process I was only trying to suggest it as an option. In my personal experience of speaking to some staff based in the BDC whilst I am sat in a JCP office is that they have no choice but explain the reasoning for things when sat ibn the office talking to a customer support officer who in turn is attempting to explain to the custoomer, it is far harder to fob a colleague off than a customer who some think tey can just say "ok we'll look into it and give you a call back within 3 hours" but if you can get an AJCS appointment it should be sorted during the course of the appointment.

Like I said just a suggestion.

[WGG]

I'll give them a ring tomorrow, getting myself into the office will be problematic. If I don't get any joy on the phone I guess I'll go and entrench myself in the JC until they sort it out.

 

Fingers crossed! I'll let you guys know how I get on.

[RaeUK]

Best of luck WGG ...

[WGG]

Well I've been on the phone to them now. The reason I've not been receiving any money is because I claimed within 6 months of my IB claim being disallowed because I failed that medical.

 

I had a little hope that I'd get some money soon, but now I'm going to have to wait for the tribunal next month, which I'll probably fail. I'm sick of the waiting and not knowing.

[WGG]

Anyone got advice? The only thing the JC told me I could do to get money is to claim JSA in the meantime, but iirc on the claim form you have to certify that you're fit, able and actively looking for work. I'm none of the above. I'd be lying if I said I was able to work, and surely it'd jeopardize my tribunal etc?

 

If so, then what's a person meant to do? Since October I've had 37 pounds in benefit, with no other income. That's ~20p a day from then until now I'm expected to be able to live on. I'm living off the debt I'm creating, and I'm counting on getting this money backdated eventually to get my head back above water.

[RaeUK]

Well I've been on the phone to them now. The reason I've not been receiving any money is because I claimed within 6 months of my IB claim being disallowed because I failed that medical.

 

I had a little hope that I'd get some money soon, but now I'm going to have to wait for the tribunal next month, which I'll probably fail. I'm sick of the waiting and not knowing.

 

Ok, WGG, now I'm really confused. You failed an ESA medical but can't get the assessment rate because you claimed ESA within 6 months of failing IB. Silly me, I thought they were two different benefits. Hopefully someone with a decent knowledge of all this will be able to go through this thread and give you some decent advice. In the meantime can you claim for hardship?

Good luck

Rae

[id6052]

have you appealed the ESA refusal?

[Nystagmite]

Anyone got advice? The only thing the JC told me I could do to get money is to claim JSA in the meantime, but iirc on the claim form you have to certify that you're fit, able and actively looking for work. I'm none of the above. I'd be lying if I said I was able to work, and surely it'd jeopardize my tribunal etc?

 

I've never gone through this; but have been told it makes no difference.

[WGG]

Ok, WGG, now I'm really confused. You failed an ESA medical but can't get the assessment rate because you claimed ESA within 6 months of failing IB. Silly me, I thought they were two different benefits. Hopefully someone with a decent knowledge of all this will be able to go through this thread and give you some decent advice. In the meantime can you claim for hardship?

Good luck

Rae

 

When I asked what else I could claim, they told me the only thing was JSA, which obviously wouldn't work. :/

 

Glad I'm not the only one confused about this. It makes no sense whatsoever. It's clearly just a way of forcing people off IB/ESA, and off benefits completely if possible.

 

 

have you appealed the ESA refusal?

 

I phoned up the day I found out I failed the medical, the forms are in the post to me.

[Ash22]

When my IB stopped in July last year, i contacted Dawn Advice and they told i should request an income support form to claim at a reduced rate.

 

Which i did, however the job center sent me out an ESA form... so i had to call back and they did the same again. Eventually after 6 weeks with no money they sent me the correct form and i have since September been in receipt of a reduced rate of income support. They refused to backdate the claim saying it was not a valid point that the job centre was in error

 

I didnt have to do any medicals for this since i sent in a doctors letter plus information regarding the appeal, they did however require me to attend 5 or 6 "pathways to work" interviews at the local job center. The advisor there said that its clear im not able to be in a position to work however they have to do the interviews as they have to follow the rules....

[WGG]

It looks like I really need to find out from an independent source if i'm able to claim anything, because the JC are either lying to me or are misinformed. They told me the only thing I could do was to claim JSA.

 

I'd intended to go to the CAB on Monday, but my girlfriend was busy, and I couldn't go by myself. I had a few phone calls to make too, and it takes me half the day to work up to picking up the phone. I'll try and get there next Monday.

[flumps1976]

You used to be able to claim Income Support when it was Incapacity Benefit and appealing against failing that medical but that is not the case with ESA claims due to the fact that it is a benefit based on Contribution and Income Based claims.

You can make a claim for JSA you just make sure you speaqk to your adviser and advise them of what you believe you are capable of doing not focus pnm what you can't, a restricted Job Seekers Agreement will be drawn up (as long as you able to actively seek some type of employment and the restrictions are reasonable e.g I can look for x type of work but have to restrict my hours to no more than x per week due to my incapacity).