Marstons fees for council PCN - not a decrimalised area

[jacqui_o]

Adam Gretton Market town leaders in south Norfolk called for a lowering of car parking charges after it emerged that the district council made more than £140,000 profit in fees and fines.

 

 

• Your view
  
• Email
  
• Print
  
• Got a story?
  

 

 

 

To send a link to this page to a friend, you must be logged in.

 

 

Market town leaders in south Norfolk called for a lowering of car parking charges after it emerged that the district council made more than £140,000 profit in fees and fines.

A controversial new pay and display system was introduced at 13 off-street car parks in Wymondham, Diss, and Loddon two years ago.

Business and town leaders yesterday called on South Norfolk Council to change its fees and extend its free parking time limit from one hour to two.

The plea comes after figures obtained by the EDP under a Freedom of Information request shows that the local authority received more than £240,000 in charges and fines over the last year and only spent £99,000 on car park maintenance and resurfacing.

South Norfolk Council leaders said the authority's car parking system was not profiteering and aimed to pay for car park improvements.

Diss mayor Jane Trippett-Jones said the surplus made on parking in the town should be re-invested to help local residents. She added that long-stay car parking in Bury St Edmunds was cheaper than Diss.

“I am unhappy with the car parking situation in Diss. In my opinion the free hour does not encourage people to stay and spend their money in the town and people are in a hurry to get back to their car. There is a balance to be made and two hours free parking would be much better,” she said.

The £140,000 excess between April 2009 and April 2010 compares to an £88,000 surplus in 2008/09 where £169,000 was invested in car park improvements, according to South Norfolk Council.

Dan Gavrovski , of the Wymondham Business Group, said the figures showed that South Norfolk's parking charges were “not realistic.” He added that a recent request to make the first two hours of parking free had been declined by the council.

“It has killed the town. If you have to pay 50p an hour you might as well go to Norwich because the fees are similar. If you go to a car park where the first hour is free, you are literally clock watching and if you want to go for a meal or hair cut it is simply not viable. It used to be thriving here, but shoppers are trying to get out of town as quickly as possible,” he said.

John Fuller, leader of South Norfolk Council, said the introduction of parking charges had helped shopkeepers by discouraging drivers from blocking spaces all day.

“We spent a substantial sum of money upgrading the car parks two years ago to address a £2m maintenance backlog to bring them up to standard. We addressed that when the economic situation was better and it does need to be paid back. Unlike some of the councils in London who make millions in surplus, our car park charges are meant to break even,” he said.

[brassnecked]

The Council manages 30 car parks in the district and operates a variable charging system, further information and clarification, including locations, is also available to download here - Where to Park in North Norfolk 2010 (pdf, 604Kb) or the leaflet can be picked up from the Council Offices or local Tourist Information Centres. Regular uses may like to consider a Season Ticket - further details are given below. Please note: The car parks at Horning, Beach Road, Sea Palling and Coast Road, Bacton are no longer part of NNDC's remit.

Car Parking Charges

These car parking charges come into effect 1 April 2010.

Parking charges apply daily between 8am and 6pm.

Daily charges are as follows:

 

• Standard Car Parks - £1 per hour for first two hours, there after 70p per hour, 8am to 6pm.
  
• Mini-Stay (at some Coastal Short-Stay Car Parks and Standard Car Parks) - 10p for 20 minutes maximum.
  
• Coastal Long-Stay Car Parks - £1.10 per hour, maximum £5 charge - tickets are transferable between long-stay car parks.
  
• Coastal Short-Stay Car Parks - £1 per hour, maximum stay 3 hours.
  

Please see below for Season Ticket charges.

Please note:

Disabled Blue Badge holders are not exempt from charges.

More information about Blue Badges is available via Norfolk County Council.

 

But as these are obviously decriminalised parking enforcement they are fundamentally civil in their jurisprudence, ie legal standing, it follows therefore that

 

75 compensation

15 Victim service

65 costs

175 fine. total 330...........

 

is wrong and SHOULD be challenged

 

Complaint to Council CEO, Council Leader Parking Manager, councillor and MP marked Formal Complaint would be a reasonable course of action.

 

You need to determine where Marstons have managed to add "CRIMINAL" penalties to a CIVIL PCN.

 

there is NO means for a council to add a "Victims Surcharge" to a civil penalty imho.

 

Others will know more

[jacqui_o]

Hi Dougal,

 

Thanks again as always for your help.........

 

Checked onthe web site and posted the above. those are/were the charges as of April last year.....

 

I will today write to the council asking for a copy of the ticket.......and will phone them and ask when they changed........ as I said it is not a town I vist regularly.... hence not checkign the sign!!!!!!! my mistake......

 

I will also take a letter into the bank today, although my concern obvioosuly is the Marstons return and add yet a further £200 to this......

 

Despite some alluding to the ticket being for somethign else.... it is not.... hard though it may be to understand and grasp............. it was for parking in a South Norfolk Car Park......... I have already psoted the details of the car park!!!!

 

The Chargin Info was given to me by the Magistrates Court.......how they work the charges out I do not know..... but that is what happened...on phone to council now.....

[jacqui_o]

Right just spoke ot a nice lady at parking services...... and all council car pakrs are patrolled by council employees....and not the POLICE.......

 

 

They changed policy in August 2008........ so my fault for not actually checking the mahooooosive large parking sign.......but it is not some wher eI go regularly......

 

she could not expalin the fine........... have to go to the court for that....... now going to pohne them

[jacqui_o]

The break down of the fine information is what was given to me by the court.................I did say this....

[brassnecked]

Right just spoke ot a nice lady at parking services...... and all council car pakrs are patrolled by council employees....and not the POLICE.......

 

 

They changed policy in August 2008........ so my fault for not actually checking the mahooooosive large parking sign.......but it is not some wher eI go regularly......

 

she could not expalin the fine........... have to go to the court for that....... now going to pohne them

 

So you have contacted the WRONG court possibly, as this would never have been dealt with by magistrates.

 

at the least the council should call off Marstons whilst this is sorted, however I'm not holding my breath as to whether they will.

[jacqui_o]

No I did not ocntact the wrong court.....lol. I contactacted the right one.......... it was the lady there on Monday who told me the breakdown the £75 comp this £15 victim service charge costs of 65 and a fine fee of 175,,,,,,

 

I did email them on Friday asking for detailes but thus far nothing!!!! am I surprised NO. its Norfolk County Council......

 

I am getting the impression you seem to think they have treated this as a criminal offence? am I right?

[jacqui_o]

If I knew how to post the letter from Marstons I would... the wording is very clear........

 

We are in possession of a Magistrates Court Order as a consequence of non payment of the above amount.... above the figuer is has Offence Excess Parking.........

[Dougal16T]

H Jacui,

 

This is getting better.

 

Firstly it is therefore NOT an offence. It is a Civil Matter. The Court cannot n my humble opinion add Victim and Compensation fees - why not? you ask.

 

It is very straightforward:

 

1.There has been no 'Victim' or if the Council believe there has, request that they explain who is the Victim and how they believe that to be the case. It is up to them to prove there was, not for you to prove there was not!

 

2.No-one is entitled to compensation or if the Council believe there is someone entitled, request that they explain who it is and how they believe that to be the case. It is up to them to prove there wis, not for you to prove there iss not!

 

I really do think you should get some legal advice under the free legal aid scheme....but do it NOW

 

Looking forward to hearing what the Council say...and seeing what 'evidence' they produce. I am also minded to suggest initiating a small claim for a fixed amount. Please PM me and I will explain further.

 

Best wishes to all

 

Dougal

[hallowitch]

If it is a local authority parking ticket (civil enforcement) it should be a Warrant of execution

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part75.htm#IDA1POQ

 

contact the Traffic Enforcement Centre 08457 045 007 . give them the car reg and ask if there is a warrant of execution

[brassnecked]

H Jacui,

 

This is getting better.

 

Firstly it is therefore NOT an offence. It is a Civil Matter. The Court cannot n my humble opinion add Victim and Compensation fees - why not? you ask.

 

It is very straightforward:

 

1.There has been no 'Victim' or if the Council believe there has, request that they explain who is the Victim and how they believe that to be the case. It is up to them to prove there was, not for you to prove there was not!

 

2.No-one is entitled to compensation or if the Council believe there is someone entitled, request that they explain who it is and how they believe that to be the case. It is up to them to prove there wis, not for you to prove there iss not!

 

I really do think you should get some legal advice under the free legal aid scheme....but do it NOW

 

Looking forward to hearing what the Council say...and seeing what 'evidence' they produce. I am also minded to suggest initiating a small claim for a fixed amount. Please PM me and I will explain further.

 

Best wishes to all

 

Dougal

 

 

I can only agree with Dougal16T, as a Council has no power to add a Victims surcharge to a CIVIL parking penalty, in fact it would be illegal to do so.Just as it is dubious for a Private Parking Company to put a huge penalty where there is a consequential loss of pennies or nothing for overstaying in a supermarket car park.

They are ultra vires (acting beyond and outside) their authority. Perhaps a FOI request as to how much they have spent on Common Purpose training is in order LOL.

 

There is also the question of Marstons fees, ie how much are they actually allowed to charge, and how much is pure fabrication?

[ploddertom]

I have followed this thread but not admittedly that closely as these things are not quite my forte. However I have to say I am puzzled by events.

 

Was the "offence" committed prior to the Council decriminalising parking offences or after. If before then yes the Magistrates Court route would be true. If after then it would go through the TEC at Northampton instead, if Magistrates are still involved then it has to be for another offence such as failing to disclose the drivers details or similar. Something here does not sound correct and until the original offence is tracked down there is not much anyone can do or help with.

 

PT

[brassnecked]

I have followed this thread but not admittedly that closely as these things are not quite my forte. However I have to say I am puzzled by events.

 

Was the "offence" committed prior to the Council decriminalising parking offences or after. If before then yes the Magistrates Court route would be true. If after then it would go through the TEC at Northampton instead, if Magistrates are still involved then it has to be for another offence such as failing to disclose the drivers details or similar. Something here does not sound correct and until the original offence is tracked down there is not much anyone can do or help with.

 

PT

 

Agreed PT, there is a confusion here, and until we are sure which jurisdiction is involved the best way forward for jaqui_o will not be clear.

[jacqui_o]

Tec could not helpthey need a penalty charge number which I do not have. am on to borough dustnow trying .....

 

right this is it so far It is a privately owned car park by Gt Yarmouth borough council......... and they set they're own fees...........

 

They gave me the ticket no............ this is of no use to TEC as the number they need has 2 letters in front of it.........

 

Sp[oke ot the courts. and according to them. they set fees with Marstons. and Marstons can charge £200 for calling to levy..........

 

this £15 victim service charge is levied against anything that goes through the magistrates court!

 

 

all the court would say was that is was a distress warrant........the details fron Gt Yarmouth Mag court were not passed over.......

 

I am even more confused that when I started........

 

Man At Norwich Mag court said they agreed fees with Marstons and that the £200 for calling to levy would be accurate then.!!!!!

 

ok so do I just pay it and bit the bullet....

 

warning to all............ gt yarmouth borough just told meathat all council are changing the blue badge free parking. even with that. you will now have ot pay...... so please please check....

[hallowitch]

I would not pay this if anything i would file a statutory declaration with the court saying you have no knowledge of a magistrate court fine http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?165753-MAGISTRATE-COURT-FINES.-Template-of-a-Statutory-Declaration.

 

 

They gave me the ticket no............ this is of no use to TEC as the number they need has 2 letters in front of it.........

 

i think this is correct i am sure i read a post by tomtubby saying it has 2 letters and 8 numbers

[jacqui_o]

oh yeah and as if that is not enough..... court have told me they will nto cancel the war until Marstons pay them. Now they got this money last week ( except they're 200) and as yet have stillnto passed it over tothe courts.......

 

apparently the war will ntobe cancelled till they do..... andget this. for example it took them a year to send it. this war woudl still belive. despite it being paid and me having the receipt.!!!!!!!!!!

 

surely that is not right??????

 

what is the best way forward???? adn how long can Marstons hold up passing the money before I can do something?

[hallowitch]

have you tried posting on this forum its free

 

 

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

[brassnecked]

letter to MP PDQ also, as this is a right cock-up, and may well be the status quo in the area for all we know, as not everyone who is fined will know about CAG

[Dougal16T]

Hi Jacqui,

 

This is still not right...will someone please tell me EXACTLY where it says that the Magistrates Court will levy a Victim Surcharge (on their own initiative) on ALL cases, and what part of our legislation this is derived from??

 

Kind regards to all

 

Dougal

[hallowitch]

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:7aPh2_xRpooJ:www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/707/pdfs/uksiem_20070707_en.pdf+domestic+violence+crime+and+victims+act+2004+vitums+surcharge&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShb4-iN5f7debeg0C60iMTkjzVakUV568cMYTJMXGwAKwXrNrSbbyuPcvQngJTY6amW8z_XoCQbvfTfkiHGRLcSe4Ol3tMeOsn-c6R6MBMErOqfPbt0G_KlHqe_4jAyHLOBOVj1&sig=AHIEtbTMBWWdILgtEfIwlPRjTUtr-yE82g

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/707/pdfs/uksiem_20070707_en.pdf

[Dougal16T]

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:7aPh2_xRpooJ:www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/707/pdfs/uksiem_20070707_en.pdf+domestic+violence+crime+and+victims+act+2004+vitums+surcharge&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShb4-iN5f7debeg0C60iMTkjzVakUV568cMYTJMXGwAKwXrNrSbbyuPcvQngJTY6amW8z_XoCQbvfTfkiHGRLcSe4Ol3tMeOsn-c6R6MBMErOqfPbt0G_KlHqe_4jAyHLOBOVj1&sig=AHIEtbTMBWWdILgtEfIwlPRjTUtr-yE82g

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/707/pdfs/uksiem_20070707_en.pdf

 

Afternoon all

 

BUT see the attached:

 

There was widespread support for the proposal to raise money for more and

better services for victims and witnesses by adding a surcharge to criminal

convictions and penalty notices for disorder. But there was opposition to levying

the surcharge on fixed penalty notices for road traffic offences as well: this was

seen as further penalising motorists. The Government accordingly made provision

in the 2004 Act to require courts to impose a surcharge on convictions (section 14)

and power to impose a surcharge on penalty notices for disorderly behaviour

(section 15). The power to impose a surcharge in relation to fixed penalty notices

for road traffic offences would only apply where the offences were ‘persistent and serious’ (section 16 of the 2004 Act).

 

Jacqui you need to make a statutory declaration to get Marstons stopped in their tracks. No matter what do not pay anything else to anyone!

 

Best wishes to all

 

Dougal

[hallowitch]

as far as i can see this was started in 2007 and all magistrate court fines are subject to this

 

there was some talk in 2010 about applying it to parking tickets but cant find out if this was implemented

having said that most local authority parking are now civil so cant see how it would/could be charged

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8437440.stm

 

100/% agree with the statutory declaration we are all assuming that its a local authority parking tickets and it could be something else also it may not even be the OPs fine

[jacqui_o]

Thanks guys for all this help...... but according to the council. they are a borough council and notthe county council and their tickes are called excess fines adn not parking tickets. as they are operating as a private company..... ( council said this)

 

How and wehre od I get the staturory decloration? and was wondering if it might be worht starting a small claim again Marstons fornot passing onthe fine payment. there surely has ot be a time limit..........on how logn they can hold the moeny without passingit over.....

 

Yes I am going ot contact my MP immediately.....

 

The first I was aware of this was in June last year. 1st letter actually received. hponed and set up the payment via card........ and then after new year forgot about it......got new purse chaged things over but obviously not the card. hence why Marstons have got it.......

 

I am also goign to make a comp to the OFT that a week after collecting the fine and fee they have still ntopassed it to the council........

 

WILLSAY AGAIN IT IS NTO ALOCAL AUTHORITY ONE. I RHOUGHT IT WAS........THE BOROUGH COUNCIL HAVE CONFIRMED THEY ARE A PRIVATE ORGANISATION AND ALL MONIES RAISED BY THEM THIS WAY STAYS IN THE BOROUGH AND GOES NO WHERE ELSE...THEY SET THEIR OWN FEES

 

So I apologise for the orgiinal confusion........

 

The magistrates court in Gt Yarmouth did not auto transfer everything over to Norwich...... Nor have only the basic of details....

[brassnecked]

I wonder if the parking scheme is compliant with the correct legislation then, in terms of signage, and how it is operated.

[Dougal16T]

H Jacqui and all,

 

This is getting sillier by the minute. (No offence - pardon the pun) The council are saying that they are a Borough Council and not the County Council, so what difference does this make? Answer= none.

 

They can call their tickets 'raffle tickets' if it makes them feel better they are however Penalty Charge Notices which state that a penalty has been imposed by the Borough Council for a breach of the regulations made by the Borough Council under delegated powers from Central Government via the County Council. They are not a 'private organisation', and never could be as they are funded by the Ta payer via Council Tax and also receive funds from Central Government, again via the County Council.

 

 

THIS NEEDS IMMEDIATE ATTENTION: (PLEASE....)

 

Template of a Statutory Declaration. with thanks to tomtubby.....

Only 3 companies can enforce these fines; Marston Group, Philips and Swift (Wales).

 

The problem that is occuring very often is that many of these FINES have been issued in somebody's absence long after that person has moved home and the first time that they know of the offence was when they have received a visit from a bailiff.

 

In the main these FINES are commonly for the following:

 

Using a TV without a Licence.

 

Driving without valid insurance

 

Driving without valid Road Fund Licence.

 

Failure to provide driver details

 

Driving whilst using a mobile phone.

 

......................... ......

 

If you were unaware of the fine being issued or correspondence had gone to a previous address, then the ONLY way to get this debt away from the bailiff and returned to the court is by way of a Statutory Declaration.

 

This will need to be sworn in front of a solicitor and this should cost just £5. The Statutory Declaration must then be either faxed to the Magistrates Court where the fine originated from or taken there in person.

 

The bailiff MUST then withdraw all enforcement.

 

The following is a template Statutory Declaration.

 

 

I:

Ms Smith of: 1, The Street, Anytown, Anywhere. Post Code.

 

DO SOLEMNLY AND SINCERELY DECLARE THAT:

 

I had no prior knowledge of any correspondence from xxxx Magistrates Court following an offence on (enter date) for (enter offence ie; exceeding the speed limit). From information provided to me today by the Magistrates Court I am informed that a hearing for this matter was held in my absence where I was fined (enter amount) with costs of (enter amount) and that (ie; my licence was endorsed with three points).The reference number for this case is: (enter case number)

 

AND THAT:

 

Notification of this fine first came to my attention on (enter date) when a bailiff from Martson Group Ltd came to my home and gave a letter to my mother. This letter stated that he was in possession of a distress Warrant dated (enter date) and that he required a sum of (enter amount) within 3 days failing which he would return with a locksmith.

 

I would like to advise the Court that I am suffering from (enter health problems if any). In addition, I am receiving medication for ie; (severe depression etc) and have been under the care of a counsellor.

 

My financial position is that I am in arrears with my mortgage and I am in discussions with my electricity and gas provider as I am currently facing disconnection. I also have arrears with credit cards and loans.

 

I genuinely do not remember receiving documentation concerning this fine.

 

I make this solemn declaration conscientiously believing the same to be true and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835.

 

DECLARED AT:

 

SIGNED:

 

DATE:

 

Before me:

 

 

Solicitor/Commissioner for Oaths:

 

This should stop Marstons and may bring the Council to its senses!

 

Best wishes to all

 

Dougal