Jacob bailiff over council tax

[neolight90]

I rang the council today as the bailiff company won't talk to me. Council said I owe them nothing as far as they are concerned it's over

 

 

This is not the case your council are full responsible for all actions of there contractors including any fees charged

 

Jacobs collect in my area (north wales ) what council are you dealing with

 

It's Cornwall council but I live in Cambridgeshire now. The council said as far as they are concerned my balance with them is nil so they wash there hands of me. It seems Jacobs no longer have the backing of the council anymore

[brendan498]

Firstly i think the advice from many of the posters is excellent and im a Member of the Institute of Money advice by Certifcation

 

A liability Order Indicates a debt , most poeple with one tend to have more debt so as a first prudent move seek advice from a not for profit debt advice ageny such as CAB or agencys which are regulated by Organisations such as Advice UK.just google not for profit debt Advice Agencies they will generally be able to suspend bailiff action,agree a repayment agreement or In most cases write off the debt using statuatory Instruments use it in conjuntion with the tips that poeple have shared on here.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

"Council said....."

 

Get that in writing, i.e. that the Liability Order is satisfied / discharged, and you'll be one of the lucky few who get away with not paying the legitimate fees due to council / bailiff incompetence.

 

Council screw ups rarely go in our favor, but lucky for you if it does.

 

Do not confuse this with the incorrect belief that the bailiff can't enforce for his fees, otherwise none of us would ever pay any would we?

[neolight90]

"Council said....."

 

Get that in writing, i.e. that the Liability Order is satisfied / discharged, and you'll be one of the lucky few who get away with not paying the legitimate fees due to council / bailiff incompetence.

 

Council screw ups rarely go in our favor, but lucky for you if it does.

 

Do not confuse this with the incorrect belief that the bailiff can't enforce for his fees, otherwise none of us would ever pay any would we?

 

I'll ring the council on Monday and check. What are the rules on speaking to someone in charge as when I spoke to Jacobs some young annoying girl kept saying speak to the bailiff over and over and no I can't speak to anyone in charge.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

There's no rules, you can speak to who you like if you can track them down. Try getting a direct line by asking (in a 'professional' sounding voice) for the head of revenue and finance at the main switchboard / reception.

 

If you have his / her name try the permutations of the email format, like:

 

[email protected]

 

then

 

[email protected]

 

then

 

[email protected]

 

and so on.

 

I'm sure an e-mail from a senior finance officer confirming that the liability order is discharged will do the trick.

[neolight90]

Bailiff turned up this morning while I was out in the Car. My wife rang me when he was at the door I just told her not to answer, after a few minutes he dropped a letter through the door saying I still owe £218 to the council for unpaid council tax and he would be back in 24 hours to remove goods. I spoke to the council today they said I am cleared but bailiffs would want there fees and there is nothing they can do as I have paid them its out of there hands now.

 

I asked what the fees were they charged and on there website it says this

 

10/12/2010 £24.50 I never got a letter for this date may have gone to a previous address??

26/1/11 £18.00

2/3/11 Levy £41 Attendence fee £110 and visit fee of £24.50

 

on the 2nd of March I spoke with him and all he did was hand me a letter at the door and walk away as I told him I am paying the council and have been before he even started his visits. Thats when he looked mad and got in is car and thought how can I change him more fees I am guessing.

 

I need my car as I have 2 babies and a sick wife and for when I start work as I am looking and no buses leave my vilage that is in the middle of nowhere

 

What now?

[neolight90]

Also just spoke to him on the phone and he said he is working within the law and I know nothing and also he noticed my car is gone and that he is going to put me on the ANPR and if my car comes up anywhere he will have it clamped and removed and when I told him I have a newborn as my wife had a C Section at the weekend he said thats a load of crap which it isnt.

 

He is upsetting my wife so much now and the council dont want to know. He also hung up on me again

[wonkeydonkey]

Why are you ringing him? Never ever ring a bailiff unless you can record the call, as most of them grow noses longer than Pinocchio.

 

You really must put pen to paper and :

 

Write to the Baiiff company asking for a breakdown in Fees as post#15

Write to the Council and ask for confirmation the laibility order has been satisfied.

If the liability order is satisfied then the levy on your car is not valid as it was made in respect of the liabilty order not his fees.

IMO the bailiff must persue you through the Court to claim anything other than the legitimate fees

Contact your MP

Ask your GP for a letter confirming your wifes present condition and send a copy to both Council and bailiffs for their records.

[hallowitch]

Wonkeydonkey I'm working on the assumption the bailiff levied his car before the liability order was paid

 

 

 

In my opinion you legal bailiff fees are 1st visit fee £24.50 and levy fee £31 therefore in total you owe the bailiff £57.50

these fees need to be paid

 

If memory serves me correct the bailiff firm would have to have written permission from the council to remove your car

 

as the council have said its out of there hands you need to be asking your council in writing if they plan to initiate this action for the outstanding bailiffs fee

some which do not comply with The Council tax administration and enforcement regulations

 

you really need to start making a formal complaint to your council about this

[neolight90]

I know this might be asking to much but can someone show me a template for what I need to send to the council I see the bailiff one on post 15 so I will send that I am not the best at letter writing.

 

Thank you so much in advance

[wonkeydonkey]

Wonkeydonkey I'm working on the assumption the bailiff levied his car before the liability order was paid

 

 

 

In my opinion you legal bailiff fees are 1st visit fee £24.50 and levy fee £31 therefore in total you owe the bailiff £57.50

these fees need to be paid

 

If memory serves me correct the bailiff firm would have to have written permission from the council to remove your car

 

as the council have said its out of there hands you need to be asking your council in writing if they plan to initiate this action for the outstanding bailiffs fee

some which do not comply with The Council tax administration and enforcement regulations

 

you really need to start making a formal complaint to your council about this

 

Sorry Hallow I had misread a previous post:embarassed: :embarassed:I was under the impression the OP had paid the owed amount to the council between the 1st and 2nd visit.

Your suggested letter would at least clear up their intentions and I agree a formal complaint is the way forward.

[neolight90]

I was paying the council before even the first visit I just finished paying a day after his second visit maybe thats why he came??

 

I have got a letter in hand as per post 15 ill mail it today any idea for a template for the council too please?

 

Thanks

[neolight90]

Just spoke to the council they are sending me a letter comfirming the LO is closed as far as they are concered and CAB showed me this from the goverment website

 

If you pay off the debt to the creditor but not the bailiffs’ charges that you owe, the bailiffs can’t take goods from you just to recover their own costs. They'll have to take action against you themselves to get the money back.

 

So he cant come for my car after all its a lie, what should I do if he turns up for it?

 

Spoke to Jacobs direct they put a manager on the phone who said that the money i paid to the council pays there fees first so i owe the council which is another lie he then said they are going to take my car and I cant stop them and they will get all the money from me no matter what I do. He was quite snooty with me and in the end felt like we were going around in circles as he kept trying to talk over me saying they have all the power and I have none

 

Its the last time I am going to call them I wash my hands of speaking to them other then letters if need be

Edited March 7, 2011 by neolight90

[wonkeydonkey]

Just spoke to the council they are sending me a letter comfirming the LO is closed as far as they are concered and CAB showed me this from the goverment website

 

If you pay off the debt to the creditor but not the bailiffs’ charges that you owe, the bailiffs can’t take goods from you just to recover their own costs. They'll have to take action against you themselves to get the money back.

So he cant come for my car after all its a lie, what should I do if he turns up for it?

 

I had vague recollections being told this many years ago but there have been many postings over the last few months that begged me to question myself.

 

Copy that info and send to Bailiffs recorded delivery. keep a copy and if he /she turns up pass them it through the window preferably an upstairs window wrapped around a object of some considerable weight. (so it does not blow away) Meanwhile send it to them by email.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

To clear this up....

 

We are dealing with a rare and lucky instance of a council, who as we already know, don't know their arse from their elbow; messing up in the favor of the debtor.

If the council mark the Liability Order satisfied and therefore withdraw the warrant / authority without the bailiff getting his fees, then yes. You've got away with it!!!!!

 

This is rare, and you should beware that if the bailiff still holds the warrant / authority to enforce then he can; regardless of what someone told you on the phone.

 

The quoted text below is correct....

 

"If you pay off the debt to the creditor but not the bailiffs’ charges that you owe, the bailiffs can’t take goods from you just to recover their own costs. They'll have to take action against you themselves to get the money back."

 

However, confusion comes from the definition of 'the debt'. For council tax and NDR the debt is the LO plus legitimate fees; this is clearly stated in the regulations and is referred to as "the amount due under these regulations" or something like.

The legit. fees become "the debt".

 

There is too much talk of whether the council have paid the bailiff, whether fees have been paid first or last.

It's all irrelevant; basically an internal transaction. Nothing to do with the debtor.

We are all to keen to point out that the council and bailiff are one and the same; which is true. In the regulations, they are (jointly) referred to as "the Authority".

 

In this case the OP might get away with it. I hope he does, but i wouldn't sleep tight until i saw the words 'Liability Order Satisfied / Discharged" and "Warrant / Authority has been withdrawn" in writing.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Forgot to add.

 

HW has kindly worked out the correct fees due: £57.50.

 

Get these paid to either the bailiff or council (remember they are one and the same!) and it IS over, regardless of your opinion on the above debate.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

And let me be more specific.

 

If the bailiff still holds the warrant /written authority, he can charge a 'van fee' on his next visit and / or take your car.

 

The argument may ultimately be decided by a Policeman, who will side with the bailiff the second he sees the warrant / written authority.

 

Would anyone like to contest that?

[neolight90]

And let me be more specific.

 

If the bailiff still holds the warrant /written authority, he can charge a 'van fee' on his next visit and / or take your car.

 

The argument may ultimately be decided by a Policeman, who will side with the bailiff the second he sees the warrant / written authority.

 

Would anyone like to contest that?

 

I'll wait to see if the council do send me a letter saying saying LO is satisfied or not. Jacobs and the council seem to have no clue and Jacobs even lie. The council said the costs incurred for the LO are payable to them and I have also paid the councils fees as well as the arrears. I know how a legal aid helping me and the have assigned morgans to my account who will fight my case for free from now on

 

The most I will pay is for the 2 visits no more

[neolight90]

I'll wait to see if the council do send me a letter saying saying LO is satisfied or not. Jacobs and the council seem to have no clue and Jacobs even lie. The council said the costs incurred for the LO are payable to them and I have also paid the councils fees as well as the arrears. I know how a legal aid helping me and the have assigned morgans to my account who will fight my case for free from now on

 

The most I will pay is for the 2 visits no more

 

Also since when could bailiffs put you on ANPR to be tracked wherever you go?

[neolight90]

4 days so far no sign of bailiff he was ment to come Tuesday as per his removal letter. It's stressing me out keep moving my car away each day

 

I want it to end now really. I still unaware if he can charge the fees that he did and if he can take my car for fees only

[Thegreenpimpernel]

If he still holds authority to collect on behalf of the council then yes he can remove your car for the £57.50.

 

In the absence of written confirmation from the council that the LO is discharged and the warrant withdrawn, I would pay them the £57.50 ASAP, or like i say Mr Bailiff can come back, which will add a legitimate 'van fee'; or worse remove your car and add a 'van fee'.

 

I would pay the council the £57.50 and insist they take it. That would discharge your duties under the LO and if they don't pass it on to the bailiffs they will either refund it or credit it to this years CT bill.

 

If you get the written confirmation, then great don't pay a penny; but be aware you are hoping for a council screw up in your favor to save £57.50.

If this goes wrong you will owe £57.50 + 'Van Fee' (£120 - £300) and maybe lose your car.

 

Can you go into the council for a face to face meeting? Explain that you think the bailiff is going to use his written authority / warrant to act contrary to the councils position that the LO is satisfied.

[neolight90]

He would have the authority of the council untill I paid them now they are acting alone(councils words not mine) They wont do anything as they keep saying my balance is zero and my account is closed

 

I dont mind paying the 57 pounds but it wont end it there they want 218 and I am guessing wont stop untill they get it or take my family car. Its my making my wife ill who is not sleeping as well due to our newborn

 

They are acting without the council now but say they are doing there bidding I have got Morgan legal on the case as we speak.

 

If it was as easy as paying the 57 and it ending I would believe me. I sent that letter the other day asking for break down of fees

 

Council said they will send me a letter showing LO is done but its gonna take some days as they are sending out new council tax statements as its end of year for them

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Even from my persistently pessimistic position, i would say once you get that letter from the council it's game set and match to you.

 

In the meantime, you should contact Mr Bailiff by e-mail and recorded delivery advising that the authority / warrant to enforce has been withdrawn. They tend to ignore anything you tell them on the phone.

 

I would also contact the council, particularly the person you spoke to by letter and e-mail, stating that: although you appreciate that they are busy; you may be imminently subject to unlawful bailiff action for which they could be viscerally liable.

 

If that came from your solicitor it might carry more weight.

[neolight90]

Got a letter today of fees says

 

Council tax due to cornwall council

Balance outstanding at today's date £228 (it's gone up by £10)

 

On back it says

 

Fees

29/11/10 debt £492.10

10/12/10 visit 1 £24.50

26/01/11 visit 2 £18.00

2/3/11 sch 5 head h £24.50

2/3/11 attendance/van £110

2/3/11 levy fee £41

 

Then below shows payments to council

 

If you want a breakdown of those just ask

[neolight90]

Any thoughts on these charges anyone