lodger or a tenant. AST MISTAKE

[rocker1]

Hi,

 

I have a lodger at my house (we are both student) and i have made a massive mistake by giving him a AST:-x my fault i know. i would like him to leave the property (i own) but he is saying that he has got a contract from 23 sept 10 to 23rd sept 11. i would like him to leave on the 1 July so i am not sure if he is a lodger or a tenant.

 

i only gave him the contract so he could get parking permit but he is using this against me. he once was a friend! i have learnt my lesson.

 

Thank you

 

Rocker

[mariner51]

Do you own the house you are living in (Lease/Freeholder) or are you renting thru LL or LA?

[rocker1]

Yes i own the house that i am living in. i am Freeholder. i am only 22 and i am new to this. i have not gone through any LA. it was based on him being my friend.....i just gave him a AST for him to get parking permits not realising the troble it iwll get me into, we both verbally agreed he will leave in July.now he is using it against me.

 

Thank you

 

Ps is LA letting agency? and i am not sure what is LL is it landlord? if so i am the Landlord.

Edited February 26, 2011 by rocker1

[mariner51]

If your ex-friend had his own room but shared bathroom, kitchen & lounge with you then an AST cannot exist. He is a lodger and IMO you can exclude him from the property, change the locks. Was he paying you any 'rent', paying his share of bills etc? Where did you get the AST from, online?

If he has paid you less than £4200? for 'rent' in last financial year you could just declare this as a 'letting a room in own house' income on your next tax form.

Do some research about renting a room in your home, before you make another mistake.

 

Gone are the days of friends sharing without hassle, unfortumately.

 

Full discussion and advice provided by better experts than me on your post i Landlord Zone Forum, Residential lettings section.

Edited February 26, 2011 by mariner51

[NewSAHD]

When you exclude him - and best to have a 'better' friend along as witness, if needs be - do not damage, or lose the ex-friend's' possessions

 

If you can have a sensible conversation with him, great. Tell him the AST paperwork is meaningless, an AST cannot exist and that he is just a lodger - and, as such, he has very few rights. You want him gone, so tell him to leave. What he does is his problem and maybe next time he won't try to take advantage of friends

 

That said, he's already shown his true colours, and there are some here who might suggest you simply bag up all his belongings when he is out for the day, make sure they are secure - change the locks and then be done with him once and for all

 

Personally, I'd try to reason with him first, whilst making sure I had friends/family there as witness - but I don't know your circumstances, or his, so would be cautious whichever way you play it

 

Any queries post again and above all good luck!

[rocker1]

im going to write him a formal notise to leave. he has contected the university for advise. i have got a letter from the university sayin a contact is a legal binding document which says sept 23rd 2011. but they do not know the whole story. i was advised to speak to them and not him any more. i can use the university lady as a witness and make her sign a document as well.

 

i don't rely wan to see him, as i might pack his face in and put it on the street.

 

lets see how it goes. i will have to wait till Tuesday or wed. when she is in her office hours.

 

Rocker

[NewSAHD]

Be seen to be the reasonable one here, if you can. Keep it polite, sensible - and to the point. This is YOUR home, he is JUST a lodger, and so has few rights, if any. It is not fair that someone takes advantage of you in your own, especially when you thought he was a friend. Your ex-friend, as a lodger, is on a hiding to nothing here...

 

Will post some additional links for you later, if I can, but you should find others will be along soon enough to help too

 

Good luck and look forward to hearing this gets sorted

[45002]

Hi,

 

I have a lodger at my house (we are both student) and i have made a massive mistake by giving him a AST:-x my fault i know. i would like him to leave the property (i own) but he is saying that he has got a contract from 23 sept 10 to 23rd sept 11. i would like him to leave on the 1 July so i am not sure if he is a lodger or a tenant.

 

i only gave him the contract so he could get parking permit but he is using this against me. he once was a friend! i have learnt my lesson.

 

Thank you

 

Rocker

 

 

rocker1

 

Dont you find it confusing posting the same question on 2 forums ?

 

 

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?36347-lodger-or-a-tenant.-AST-MISTAKE

[NewSAHD]

45002, hi - interesting thread on the other forum, might have to go there too !

 

rocker1 - hope the information you've been getting is helping to clarify matters for you

 

Forgive me saying so, but it seems that you periodically seem to slip back in to discussing "AST's" and "tenants" and so on

 

First off, please scrub all such words from your mind. You seem to be pretty much now to be in the realms of 'negotiation' (or will be very shortly, I think you said you were speaking to the University on Wednesday) and by that I mean you need to be able to easily say things such as, perhaps:

 

- your ex-friend is currently a lodger in your home

 

- you understood from your ex-friend that confirmation of his residence would allow him to obtain a parking permit

 

- you printed some paperwork off the internet to help him with this

(incidentally, what part did your friend play in all this, did he, perhaps, suggest you search for 'AST' etc)

 

- your ex-friend obtained his parking permit

(please can you advise us what the local authority's requirements are for the issuing of permit - I ask as it occurs to me that your friend may have misrepresented the position to you, with a view to fraudulently obtaining a permit - please advise as to details) AND, with that in mind,

 

- not only does your friend unfairly drag you in to such affairs, which you now know he shouldn't have done

(this is subject to what you can - discretely - find out the authority's requirements, without OBVIOUSLY incriminating yourself too!)

 

- but then has the gall to claim he has an AST, when clearly he does not, he is 'just' a lodger with very few rights

 

- at a time when he knows full well (perhaps?) that you have done a deal with an Agent to have the property let out from July 2011

 

Personally, for whatever it is worth, I'd be making it clear to the University that your ex-friend does not have an AST, that he is a lodger in your home, and you just want him gone please. You can allude to you making discrete enquiries in to the position with your ex-friend making, perhaps, a fraudulent application for a permit, as you want no such part in any deception (all subject to the caveats above)

There is fine line though, perhaps, between making reasonable suppositions - and then either slandering / libeling someone and /or incriminating yourself, so you'll need to consider quite how much you say. Plus, very few of us here are lawyers, so you must always take what is said here and elsewhere with a (large) pinch of salt!

 

Without knowing all the details - even from what you have posted elsewhere - it's really for you to decide, but I do hope all this helps in some way

 

My gut feel is to appeal to the University to help quickly 'arbitrate' and resolve this for both your sakes, perhaps along the lines of

 

a) your ex-friend leaves now and no further rent will fall due

b) or leaves in May 2011, without issue, with all rents and utilities paid to that date, as you need to get the house ready for a letting in July (ie gives you June to sort whatever queries there may be)

c) or he stays to Sept, but signs a promissory note to the effect that he will pay all rents on demand...

 

Promissory notes are (or used to be, not used one in some time) lethal as they are payable upon demand. No ifs, or buts, you simply have to pay - or face an (easily) pursued claim against you... at least, that's as I recall

 

I mention this last part, as he was only ever a lodger and your offer to assist him with parking has been seriously misinterpreted by him with regards your own position. You have agreed to a letting with an agent in July for a rent of £X and if your ex-friend does not honour his part of any arrangement you can suggest, reasonably, to the Univeristy that you will seek to recover YOUR losses from him direct...

 

Hence the earlier comment over negotiation, as much as bluff and counter bluff. I'd tend not to put too much in writing, if anything, and play it by ear

 

Personally, do try to keep it simple though - and, above all, be seen to be the reasonable, aggrieved party here, let down dreadfully by an ex-friend, who has taken advantage of you in your own home - as well as leaving you upset over your ex-friend's dealings with the local authority

 

And, after all that, do try to keep it simple, and definately make it sound reasonable

 

The phrase 'less said soonest mended' still comes to mind though

 

Good luck!

 

(Typed at haste, may well come back to - heavily - edit this)

Edited February 28, 2011 by NewSAHD
typos

[rocker1]

Hi

 

Firstly THANK YOU for your post. wow everyone is so helpful =)

 

i understand what you mean.

 

the AST is what i thought i was meant to give heance my fault,

so im not sure if i should mention anything about the parking permits.

 

if i go to the university and say

 

"i am aware of the contract that mr x has but that contact is meaningless as i am the owner of the house, which means that mrx is only a lodger in my house. can you please sign this notice to quit as proof that i have passed the letter on as i am assuming that you are in contact with mrx as he is not replying to my txt or phone calls, and i never see him in the house as i think he is staying with his girlfriend."

 

 

Rocker

[rocker1]

i know i shouldn't ever say this but the money is not a issue at the moment. i just want welll justice on his lies.

 

i will be writing the notice soon. will update both forms lol i hope their no trouble with that.

Rocker

[NewSAHD]

Hi

 

Firstly THANK YOU for your post. wow everyone is so helpful =)

 

i understand what you mean.

 

the AST is what i thought i was meant to give heance my fault,

so im not sure if i should mention anything about the parking permits.

 

if i go to the university and say

 

"i am aware of the contract that mr x has but that contact is meaningless as i am the owner of the house, which means that mrx is only a lodger in my house. can you please sign this notice to quit as proof that i have passed the letter on as i am assuming that you are in contact with mrx as he is not replying to my txt or phone calls, and i never see him in the house as i think he is staying with his girlfriend."

 

 

Rocker

 

Your dealings are with your ex-friend, not the University, but you want to keep it sensible, polite and friendly with them - as they may be able to help you here.

 

Keep it simple. He's a lodger, he's trying to pull a fast one, you simply want him gone by the end of May and no later. It's upsetting enough for you to be let down by a friend in this way, in your own home, and there is also the issue that he could create further problems with the Agency letting that is being arranged for July. If your ex-friend does not leave then he is causing issues for everyone, so, going by May gives EVERYONE time to calm down - and find alternative accomodation. The paperwork that was produced was solely to assist in him getting a car parking permit and your ex-friend is now, arguably, misrepresenting the position

 

There is nothing for the University to sign here either - and it may annoy/aggravate them if you ask/insist

 

Instead, you could simply say to them that your ex-friend has to go (for the reasons set out in the second paragraph, above). You could say that you will set this out in a simple letter to your ex-friend, as he is not responding to calls, or texts, and is staying with his girlfriend anyway (do you know where?). You could say that you will leave the letter in your ex-friend's room, as well as delivering a copy to his girlfriend's address, and will have a witness (another friend) along to confirm this has been done - even have a photographic record of the same etc

 

Make it clear to the University (politely, sensibly) that you feel your ex-friend is misrepresenting the position, that he is just a lodger, and is taking advantage of paperwork that was produced long after he moved in, just to sort a car parking permit... and that as much as you understand Tenants have rights (your exfriend is not a Tenant, btw) it is not right that a Landlord should be taken advantage of in their own home by a Lodger, least of all someone who was a friend...

 

Bear in mind that after all of this you want, if you can, for the University to be on your side here, for they will report back to your ex-friend... and won't, perhaps, be wanting to upset Landlords, who could so easily go to the press (I'm not suggesting you do so, or even mention this, yet, more that I'm typing at speed...) so, if you can, you want them to be able to say, on balance, as a Lodger he will be given enough notice and should leave...

 

Whatever notice you give to the Lodger may it simple, do not refer to AST's / s8 / s21 (yes, now read your other post...) and make it clear that on the day he leaves he is to return all keys, ensure he has settled any utility bills, as appropriate, and left his room clean and tidy... there are more formal notices out there, but hope you get the gist. Others should be along soon enough to comment, as it has been many years since I dealt with lodgers direct

 

And - sorry for going over old ground - why did the friend become an ex-friend? Was it over this? Don't mean to pry, just getting a feel for where/why it's gone wrong for you. Might come back to edit that question btw, as typing quickly here

 

Incidentally, what have you actually agreed with the Agency (and, forgive the question, but signed for too...)?

Edited February 28, 2011 by NewSAHD
additional question and typos

[MrShed]

Guys, I have to disagree with the above advice.

 

An AST this cannot be - however, the terms within can most certainly be enforced.

 

This does not become a tenancy with the relevant legal protection, but a lodger/licencee agreement, which is FULLY DEPENDANT UPON THE TERMS OF THE CONTRACT.

 

The contract has stipulated a fixed term. As such, the OPs lodger would absolutely have legal recourse if this contract is broken - albeit under contract law, not relevant tenancy statutes.

[NewSAHD]

MrShed, hi, good to see you back - that said I've not been around much either, of which more (perhaps) later. I've sent a PM to rocker1 earlier in the week setting out how he could approach this matter , which does not run contrary to the information contained in your post...

[MrShed]

Not sure how much I will be back, but thanks for the welcome

[45002]

Not sure how much I will be back, but thanks for the welcome

 

Here another welcome back to the forums as well

 

45002