High Court Enforcement Officer

[hawkins1]

We had a visit from a High Court Bailiff yesterday who pushed a Walking Possession Agreement through our letter box. This is for a debt for unpaid rent from a previous address. We have been dealing with this through the local county court but the Landlord of the previous property and his representative have taken it further, which apparently they are allowed to do. My husband spoke to the bailiff last night and to begin with he wasnt very helpful and said there was nothing we can do to stop the seizure of goods unless we can pay the full outstanding debt. If we could, we would not be in this position in the first place. He did actually phone my husband back to ask if our car was in finance, which it is and he said that the creditor had requested that the vehicle be taken from us. Luckily it cant. My husband had told him about the fact we are trying to sort repayment out through the County Court and in his second phone call, he said it was unusual for these matters to get to the situation they had as normally this is sorted out between the parties concerned. He advised us to email the High Court office explaining what has been happening. This I did and attached a copy of a letter we wrote to the County Court about this matter on 10th February 2011 so at least they can see that we have been trying to sort this matter out. The ex landlords representative has been threatening High Court Sheriffs, Attachment of Earnings and Bankruptcy for ages and to be honest, I think the amount of money we are able to pay every month, will not be acceptable to them. We now live in an upstairs flat, which is a converted flat. We have very little furniture so if seizure of goods was done, they would be lucky if they fetched £200. We have no flat screen tv or anything like that. What I would like to know is, is there anything we can do to stop the ex landlord and his representative from demanding seizure of goods, attachment of earnings or bankruptcy. Or will it be the courts decision what happens next. Also if seizure goes ahead, can the bailiff check cupboards, drawers, lofts etc for items they can sell or is it only what they can see. Any help anyone can give me will be really appreciated.

 

Since writing this message, I have received an email from the High Court giving us 7 days to make an offer of payment. Does anyone know what will happen if this offer isnt accepted. We cant afford much at the moment but if they seize goods, they wont get very much and if they make me bankrupt, they wont get anything either as I have no assets. What I am concerned about is Attachment of Earnings.

 

Thanks

[ploddertom]

The HCEO has no actual right to come into your home unless you actually invite him in. He may indeed have a piece of paper that says he has seized all your goods but in reality which ones has he seized - has he for instance found he gold ingots under your bed. The short answer is no he has not and as long as you deny him entry there is little he can do.

 

Was the initial order made through a CCJ?

 

PT

[Thegreenpimpernel]

1) If they make you bankrupt they will get less than nothing, it will cost them at least £1000. (Is it £750 plus solicitor?)

 

2) If the car has considerable finance on it, it won't be worth seizing. Have you checked if it is an HP agreement? Its not often clear. If so they can't touch it full stop.

 

3)If the car is not 'seizable', then have you let them into your home to levy? If not there are no goods to seize - they are bluffing.

[hawkins1]

The Enforcement Officer did not gain access as there was nobody in when he called. I spoke to him and it was him who suggested we email the Court which we did last night. They replied earlier on this evening asking us for either the full amount owed or a proposal for payment within 7 days. What happens if they dont accept our offer. That is worrying us. To be honest the Bailiff was quite helpful. He said he was surprised that it had got this far. I spoke to the County Court today who still cant find the £35 I paid to vary the original order. This has been going on since the end of November. When I emailed the High Court last night, I attached the last letter I sent to the County Court to prove that we have been trying to sort this out. What I dont want is an Attachment of Earnings mainly because they are likely to take more money than we can afford and of course, the embarrassment. The more we try to sort our financial problems out, the deeper we seem to get in them.

[hawkins1]

We have not let them into our home and there is a lot of money outstanding on the car finance. It was from Welcome. They have been very good and reduced our payments by half in the middle of last year. I know they dont have a very good name but we have had no problems with them at all. However, it does mean that we havent paid off as much of the finance as we would have done if we had kept to the original payments. If the court tried to seize goods, they would get next to nothing for them. Our TV is almost 10 years old, not a flat screen one which I am sure they think we have, our computer is virtually the same age and isnt a lap top. We have no jewellery so they would find nothing. What I would like to know is are Bailiffs allowed to go into the loft, cupboards and drawers and levy on things they find in there. We havent go much in the loft but we do have some ornaments, and two flat packed wardrobes which we havent room for where we are living at the moment which is an upstairs flat. They arent worth anything but I suppose £20 is money to them. Thanks for replying

[ploddertom]

You say you have submitted a Variation application but the Court have lost it. How did you pay? Did you get a receipt? If paid by cheque or PO have you checked to see if it has been cashed? When the original docs were served did you file an acknowledgment of service? Did you file a defence at the time? Was Judgment in Default awarded against you?

 

Sorry for all the questions but trying to get a clearer picture.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

What I would like to know is are Bailiffs allowed to go into the loft, cupboards and drawers and levy on things they find in there. We havent go much in the loft but we do have some ornaments, and two flat packed wardrobes which we havent room for where we are living at the moment which is an upstairs flat. They arent worth anything but I suppose £20 is money to them. Thanks for replying

 

If he gains access to your home he is allowed to go anywhere inside it, he is allowed to break open any locked internal doors or cupboards. There are a lot of things they are not allowed to take. It is more important that you do NOT under any circumstances let anyone in.

 

PT

[caledfwlch]

It sounds to me like Welcome have also broken data protection laws, by speaking to the Bailiff about the OP, unless the Bailiff is lying of course....

[hawkins1]

The Bailiff wasnt told we had the car in finance from Welcome. All I think they do is phone the DVLA and they can get the information about finance on the vehicle from them. I might be wrong, but he never asked me who the finance was with.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

There are various ways of establishing if there is finance on a car.

 

I think the AA or RAC even offer this service for people about to buy a car.

[bladeboy]

As previously stated, there is NO POWER OF ENTRY for the bailiff and they know this! Given that they have limited powers they will bluff and misrepresent their powers. They will nearly 100% of the time inflate their fees like all bailiffs - just seems that no one seems to care that this is a widespread practice in the industry. Don't let them in.

[tomtubby]

As previously stated, there is NO POWER OF ENTRY for the bailiff and they know this! Given that they have limited powers they will bluff and misrepresent their powers. They will nearly 100% of the time inflate their fees like all bailiffs - just seems that no one seems to care that this is a widespread practice in the industry. Don't let them in.

 

Look, you have received some excellent advice on here and therefore I don't think that there is much that I can offer suffice to say that frankly, you have VERY LITTLE to worry about.

 

You appear to have assets of limited value. Very likely the HCEO WILL reject your offer and frankly, that's fine. They are in the business to get payment and their clients expect payment QUICKLY. They have not received ANY money from you and are unlikely to do so. Therefore, they will not be too interested in monitoring a payment plan with nominal payments (especially given that there is NOTHING in this for them).

 

I would consider that they will RETURN the Writ of fi fa back to the creditor as Nulla Bono (Nil assets, insufficient goods on which to levy).

 

Also, I am at a loss as to understand why you are even mentioning that you only have an old type TV. This is of no consequence at all UNLESS you are considering allow the bailiff to have entry into your home. You have NO NEED TO DO SO.......

[hawkins1]

Your right about fees. We got charged £974 for the High Court Bailiff and all that does is make it even harder for you to clear the debt. I know I was at fault initially but adopting the attitudes they do, doesnt help anyone. I spoke to a Debt Advisory Service yesterday and she advised going bankrupt. It might be the answer, but I dont want to go down that road. If the other party do it, then there is nothing I can do about it but they wont get anything then as I have no assets. I live in a private rented property. The High Court asked me to make an offer of payment and that is what I am going to do. What worries me is that it wont be accepted and will look to other means, bankruptcy or attachment of earnings. All I have left every month after everything has been paid, including petrol and living expenses is £15 per month. I am due a pay rise in April but last year it was only 1% so my earnings wont increase that much. If they do an attachment of earnings, I know it wont be a low amount they will take off me. Just have to wait and see and keep everything crossed.

[hawkins1]

I didnt realise they could give details like that. I only know about the DVLA because my wife worked for a car sales company many years ago and they used to phone the DVLA on any part exchanges they get in. He might have phoned Welcome but whether they would have given them any information I do not know. It doesnt matter anyway, because the car is on finance. When I was browsing through this site on wednesday night I noticed something to do with Welcome Finance but I cant find it now. It said something about you might be entitled to £2000 if you had Welcome Finance. Any ideas where I might find that again.

[ploddertom]

Note you hve not replied to Post 6 yet?

[hawkins1]

The creditor has a representative from a company called Credebt who basically are debt collectors but the gentleman who is dealing with this calls himself a business man. He has been threatening High Court Sheriffs, Attachment of Earnings or Bankruptcy so if the Court dont accept my offer, then this "gentleman" will try and inforce it some other way. I am not trying to get out of repaying this debt in any way. Its my fault and I hold my hands up to it. I just would like to be able to commence payments, if only a small amount to start off with. Cant bailiffs turn up with the police to force you to open your door or is that just for evictions. I remember reading about someone that happened to many years ago. The creditors agent will get his way one way or the other. The lady I spoke to at the Debt Advisory place yesterday said she had never heard of the High Court being involved in anything like this as its normally sorted out in the County Court.

 

Cant do much now but wait but thanks for your help anyway.

[hawkins1]

I am not sure if I replied to this threat. The Court have not lost the variation application but the money. However, this has now been found and I am waiting for a phone call from them today to advise whether I still need to pursue through the County Court or just with the High Court.

[hawkins1]

Just received a letter from Sheriffs office stating that unless payment is made within 7 days , their officers will re-attend with transporation to remove our goods, chattels and other property. This may take place in our absence and will incur us further costs. So, I presume they can actually break in. What I find hard to understand is where they think we are going to get the outstanding money from to pay them in 7 days. If we had it we wouldnt be in this position in the first place.

This just gets worse. I have emailed them straight back to ask why they gave us 7 days to submit a proposal for payment and yet now they are demanding all the money.

[ploddertom]

I am not sure if I replied to this threat. The Court have not lost the variation application but the money. However, this has now been found and I am waiting for a phone call from them today to advise whether I still need to pursue through the County Court or just with the High Court.

 

The Variation Order still goes through the County Court as normal

 

Just received a letter from Sheriffs office stating that unless payment is made within 7 days , their officers will re-attend with transporation to remove our goods, chattels and other property. This may take place in our absence and will incur us further costs. So, I presume they can actually break in. What I find hard to understand is where they think we are going to get the outstanding money from to pay them in 7 days. If we had it we wouldnt be in this position in the first place.

This just gets worse. I have emailed them straight back to ask why they gave us 7 days to submit a proposal for payment and yet now they are demanding all the money.

 

Listen Carefully

Unless they have been in your home by peaceful means they can NOT break in under any circumstances.

 

What you should do NOW is to submit another application to the County Court on Form N244 this time applying for a Stay of Execution against the enforcement procedures & charges of the HCEO. Cost of this application is £75 unless on certain Benefits or low wage in which cas eyou also need Form EX160 for Fee Remission.

 

Your grounds for applying for the Stay are:

1 - pending determination of your Variation Order application

2 - you cannot afford the fees the HCEO has charged

 

It will be too late to do this today but you should take this to the Court in person first thing Monday morning and explain it is an urgent application. Usually a Judge can be found who can give an interim Order pending a further Hearing. If this happens you inform the HCEOs immediately giving them Judges name, date & name of Court saying paperwork will be forwarded once received.

 

A Stay of Execution halts all enforcement & charges until the outcome of your Variation is known.

At the time this CCJ was awarded had you had the original paperwork? Did you acknowledge service? Did you submit a defence?

 

PT

[hawkins1]

Glad to have found someone in the know. The County Court were supposed to be calling me back today but as yet they havent. I will try and explain how this all came about.

 

We got behind with our rent due to unemployment. We eventually left the property we were renting prior to the eviction going to court which was 16th November 2010. We received an Order for Possession and on it at the bottom it stated "It is ordered that the defendant pay the sum of (amount) to the claimant in full.

 

I telephoned the County Court office upon receipt of this document and was advised to put in an Application to Vary. Once this is in place, it will halt the claimant trying to take any further action. There has been a lot of going backwards and forwards between the court and ourselves over this payment they couldnt find. I did send an email to the claimants representative keeping him up to date of what was happening. I didnt want him to think we were sitting on our backsides doing nothing. I received a very snotty email back from him informing me that he intended instructing the Sheriffs office, or attachment of earnings or bankruptcy. I didnt think any of this was possible because of the Application to Vary but after we received a visit from the High Court Bailiff on Tuesday, I spoke to the Enforcement section of the county court to see if the High Court can do this and he said once an Application to Vary is in place, Enforcement at the County Court would not send Bailiffs out but he said the High Court isnt like that and they overule the County Court. I dont know anything about what you are asking about CCJ or acknowledgement of service. The only paperwork we had was an Order for Possession. That is all I can tell you. Still havent had a reply from High Court regarding letter received today yet.

[ploddertom]

Sorry didn't realise it was for rent so ignore all references to CCJ etc.

 

As the HCEO is involved the only way you can halt this is to go for the Stay as said previously. Applying for the Variation on its own will not prevent enforcement carrying on.

 

PT

[hawkins1]

Thank you for all your help

[bladeboy]

Your right about fees. We got charged £974 for the High Court Bailiff and all that does is make it even harder for you to clear the debt. I know I was at fault initially but adopting the attitudes they do, doesnt help anyone. I spoke to a Debt Advisory Service yesterday and she advised going bankrupt. It might be the answer, but I dont want to go down that road. If the other party do it, then there is nothing I can do about it but they wont get anything then as I have no assets. I live in a private rented property. The High Court asked me to make an offer of payment and that is what I am going to do. What worries me is that it wont be accepted and will look to other means, bankruptcy or attachment of earnings. All I have left every month after everything has been paid, including petrol and living expenses is £15 per month. I am due a pay rise in April but last year it was only 1% so my earnings wont increase that much. If they do an attachment of earnings, I know it wont be a low amount they will take off me. Just have to wait and see and keep everything crossed.

 

You were given good advice from the Debt Advisory Service. If you have no assets to speak of, Bankruptcy is a very good option for you and this legally halts all enforcement action by any unsecured creditor that's pursuing you. It also draws a line under all of the debt and you cane then move on. It will also halt the hassle from the High Court Enforcer. If you had your own home - that is to say you had a good junk of equity in it - then bankruptcy might not be the best option should you want to keep it but given your situation and providing you can front the debtor's petition fee then go for it. No stigma these days so don't worry there.

[hawkins1]

Problem is finding the money to go bankrupt and then its bank accounts, your employer finding out too. Dont know about that. Have to think long and hard about that.

[hawkins1]

Contacted Sheriffs office to make a proposal for payment re High Court Enforcement Officer but had reply yesterday saying it wasnt accepted, which to be honest, I didnt think it would be. Spoke to Debtline and they advised completing N244 Stay of Execution. This form is being sent recorded delivery. Also they said that even though our vehicle is on finance, the High Court Enforcement Officer could still seize it and suggested we basically kept it out of sight. Is that right? Surely the vehicle belongs to the finance company, which is Welcome Finance. We owe more than we should on the vehicle because when my wife was made redundant, they reduced our monthly payments to help us out. When I telephoned the Bailiff, which was the evening of the day he visited our property, he advised contacting the sheriffs office but then telephoned me back to ask if our car was on HP and he said that the creditor did ask for the vehicle to be taken off us. I told him it was and he asked for the registration number so he could check for himself. Was that just a ploy to get car details or do you think he was being genuine.

Thanks