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    • Russia’s economy has been cut off from the global financial system - but it is still growing. Why?View the full article
    • Well done. Are you able to tell us more about how it went on the day please? HB
    • when mediation call they will ask the same 3 questions that are in their email you had to accept it going forward. simply state 'i do not have enough information from the claimant to make an informed decision upon mediation so i refuse. end of problem.  
    • Food prices, including a $40 chicken, has stoked fury and calls for big foreign supermarket chains to come to Canada.View the full article
    • Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business CEntre Name of the Claimant ? Lowell Portfolio i Ltd How many defendant's  joint or self ? Self   Date of issue –  15 Feb 2024 Particulars of Claim What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?  The claim is for the sum of £922 due by the Defendant under and agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a Capital One account with an account reference of [number with 16 digits] The Defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a Default Notice was served under s.87(1) of the Consumer Credit ACt 1974 which has not been complied with. The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 16-06-23, notice of which has been given to the defendant. The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of the issue of these proceedings in the sum of £49.15 The Claimant claims the sum of £972 What is the total value of the claim? £1112 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? I dont know the details of the PAPDC to know if it was pursuant to paragraph 3, but I did receive a Letter of Claim with a questionaire/form to fill. Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? no Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned/purchaser Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I was aware, I'm not certain I received a 'Notice of Assignment' from Capital One but may have been informed the account had been sold without such a title on the letter? Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Not since the debt purchase, and not from Capital One. Why did you cease payments? I can't remember - it was the tail end of the pandemic and I may not have had enough income to keep up payments - I am self-employed and work in the event industry - at that time. I also had a bank account that didn't allow direct debits and may have just forgotten payments and became annoyed at fines for late payments. What was the date of your last payment? Appears to be 20/4/2022 Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No Here is my Defence: Defence - 1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had an agreement with Capital One but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request.. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unaware of having been served with a Default Notice pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925 Section 136(1) 5. The Defendant has sent a request by way of a section 78 pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, for a copy of the agreement, the Claimant has yet to comply and remains in default of said request. 6. A further request has been made via CPR 31.14 to the Claimants solicitor, requesting disclosure of documents on which the Claimant is basing their claim. The Claimant has not complied and to date nothing has been received. 7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to: a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and; b) show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for and; c) show the nature of the breach and evidence by way of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 88 CCA1974 d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim 8. As per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimants prove the allegation that the money is owed 9. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of section 136 of the Law of Property Act and section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .................. Please note that I had to write a defence quite quickly as I hit the deadline. At the time of writing the defence, I hadn't been able to find correspondence from Capital One, but had since found default letter etc. I submitted CCA request and CPR 31.14. However, I didn't get any proof of postage or use registered post for the CPR (an oversight) but did with the CCA request. I received a pack which included a letter from Overdales, going over the defence I'd filed, as well as letters of Lowells and reprints of letters from Capital One. But I have no idea if this pack is in response to the CCA request or the CPR ! I would have expected two separate responses ... although I do know they are both the same company. Looking over the pack today, and looking through old emails .. I find some discrepancies in the Capital One default letters (notice of default and Claim of default). They are both dated *before* an email I have stating that a default can be avoided. The one single page of agreement sent (so not the full agreement) has a 16 digit number at the top in small print, next to 'Capital One' which corresponds to a number called 'PURN' printed at the top of each of the 10 pages of ins and outs of the account (they're not official statements, but a list of monthly goings) yet no mention anywhere on either of the account number. I cant really scan them at the moment - I can later tomorrow, but that will be after the mediation call I'm sure. I guess I may be on my own for this mediation ... I am not certain the CCA request has been satisfied .. or if the CPR has been . And then I appear to have evidence that the Default notices provided are fabricated ? Yet, I do have (elsewhere ... not at home) Default letters from Capital One I can check ..
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Shoddy 'Apple' products


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I am a Windows user but prefer the look and feel of a Mac keyboard and mouse - both of which I've used easily and happily for some time now.

I bought a Mac keyboard from Amazon, it developed a fault so they sent me a replacement, that is dodgy too. I also bought a Mac mouse which fails to scroll down. I contacted them and they said I should take it up with Apple, in disgust I cancelled my Amazon account and am wondering what rights I have with the manufacturer (if any), both products are about 4 months old.

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Amazon are 100% responsible for this. Your contract is with them not Apple. They know this but are fobbing you off in the hope you do not know your rights.

Ah, interesting thanks; is there a law or group of laws I can quote to them to entice them to act?

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It seems lots of retailers fob you off and tell you to contact the manufacturer... considering it's the retailer who's responsible it's amazing manufacturers let them get away with it.

 

The law you're looking to quote is the Sale of Goods Act (SOGA). You can find more information by reading this topic.

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It seems lots of retailers fob you off and tell you to contact the manufacturer... considering it's the retailer who's responsible it's amazing manufacturers let them get away with it.

 

-----

 

Far from letting them get away with it, I rather suspect that Amazon, as an authorised Apple Reseller, owns no authority to do anything but refer a complaint to Apple, to be dealt with under their general Warranty.

 

No Apple reseller, agent, or employee is authorized to make any modification, extension, or addition to this warranty.
http://images.apple.com/legal/warranty/docs/cpuwarranty.pdf

 

8-)

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-----

 

Far from letting them get away with it, I rather suspect that Amazon, as an authorised Apple Reseller, owns no authority to do anything but refer a complaint to Apple, to be dealt with under their general Warranty.

 

http://images.apple.com/legal/warranty/docs/cpuwarranty.pdf

 

8-)

 

This may or may not be the case; either way it has no bearing on Amazon's responsibility under SOGA.

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Yikes, I'm a bit lost with all the legal chat but thanks for helping me out people, I've emailed Amazon and look forward to updating my progress here. If only the retailers were more honest and treated us consumers fairly we would probably not5 even have this great forum!

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:whoo:

 

No.

 

If you want to look it up, .... covers product liability.

 

8)

 

You may well be correct- my only experience follows trying to report a dangerous German product to the DTI- they told me that was the case- in the end I had to get trading standards involved.

 

Will look into the links later

 

Thanks

Edited by imaginarynumber
forgot to say thanks
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Yikes, I'm a bit lost with all the legal chat but thanks for helping me out people, I've emailed Amazon and look forward to updating my progress here. If only the retailers were more honest and treated us consumers fairly we would probably not5 even have this great forum!

 

:!:

 

What is so dishonest about expecting Apple to honour their one year general warranty if this was already paid for?

 

You wanted know what rights you have with the manufacturer (if any).

 

Assuming that the warranty applies, the buyer's right is to enforce the contract, the promise to repair, replace or refund. It's a unilateral contract with Apple, concluded when a buyer purchases their hardware from an authorised supplier..

 

8-)

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I asked my son about this when he got home from work tonight.

 

He's a computer addict, buys a lot of stuff online, says that he's sent stuff back to Apple and they replace within a week which is a faster response than you would get with Amazon, so he fails to see what the fuss is about.

 

8)

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well the fuss is that if apple repalce the product you can no longer use the rights under the SOGA as it is no longer the product sold

 

so if it then develops a fault outside of the warrenty you have no come back

Please note:

 

  • I am employed in the IT sector of a high street retail chain but am not posting in any official capacity,so therefore any comments,suggestions or opinions are expressly personal ones and should not be viewed as an endorsement or with agreement of any company.
  • i am not legal trained in any form.
  • I have many experiences in life and do often use these in my posts

if ive been helpful kick my scales, if ive been unhelpful kick the scales of the person more helpful :eek:

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well the fuss is that if apple repalce the product you can no longer use the rights under the SOGA as it is no longer the product sold

 

so if it then develops a fault outside of the warrenty you have no come back

 

To the contrary, the comeback would be at least what it would be if Amazon did the same because the terms of the Warranty especially say so:

 

... THE BENEFITS CONFERRED BY THIS WARRANTY ARE IN ADDITION TO ALL RIGHTS AND REMEDIES CONVEYED BY SUCH CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS AND REGULATIONS. THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT EXCLUDE, LIMIT OR SUSPEND ANY RIGHTS OF CONSUMERS ARISING OUT OF NON-CONFORMITY WITH A SALES CONTRACT.

 

etcetera.

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I don't think that a warranty would be transferrable in such a case, and that if a product were replaced by another party then it would effectively end any contractual relationship between the seller and the buyer. I might be wrong though. Not really thought about it.

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Wouldn't any replacement need to be of merchantable quality for a further 12 months?

 

Yes.

 

I am not so sure that an authorised resale should count as a sale of goods to start with, as opposed to a transfer of property under Part I of the Goods and Service Act 1982.

 

Whichever the case would be, the requirement to conform to description and the Implied terms about quality or fitness are equivalent, and the same would go for the replacement of goods because of a warranty. There doesn't actually have to be a price to pay in order to be protected so long as there is some sort of consideration.

 

Otherwise, Apple go out of their way to encourage a customer with a complaint to get back to them when something goes wrong because it is in their interest to know when it does. It is not so much of a big secret that a lot electronic goods are inadequately tested before they get to the open market, because of the need to be there before the opposition. In effect, the sale extends the test.

 

Unfortunate though this is, I commend to play along, instead of attempting to beat the system.

 

8)

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  • 2 years later...

I have had a number of issues over the past 10 years with purchases from and through Amazon and everyone to date has been sorted without a problem. So Amazon are usually very good with sorting out problems. The same cannot be said for marketplace sellers. People are not often aware of Amazon types of sale.. Amazon themselves, Amazon Market Place sellers who are 3rd party and here's one that people get confused with Fulfilled by Amazon in which Amazon effectively act as a 3rd party logistic warehouse for marketplace sellers. People can easily mistake this as being sold by Amazon directly when it is not.

 

However if there are issues you should consult Amazon's T&Cs especially when it comes to disputes with faulty products. Market Place sellers and Fulfillment Sellers have to adhere to T&Cs and I suggest that you send the items back and launch a claim for refund under the internal system especially if the replacements are dodgy upon receipt and they where notified at the time.

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