Help - Business Rates Not Paid - Bailiffs Called Yesterday

[alison9blue]

I am new to this and asking on behalf of my parents.

They as a company both are directors(though no wages for 2 months)of a public house.Unfortunately due to a downturn intrade and weather business is bad and dad has not paid business rates since September and un beknown to us all adopted head in sand theory!

Baliffs arrived yesterday but were refused entry to the pub!

The bill is for business rates which is a company but the bill has only dad's name on it..........they have made a list of things from their house that they want to seize including their car....and some that were parked in the car park!(We understand they cannot take these).Can they take mum and dads personal belongings for a company debt and their car?They will go away if dad pays £3000 debt is £6500.

Help mum is devestated and dad seems like a broken man.Unfortunately i have no funds to bail them out or i would.

[rebel11]

Hi alison

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will advise as soon as they are available.

 

I've moved the thread and changed the title.

[ploddertom]

You say they are a Company, what status do they trade as - Ltd, Sole, Partnership, LLP?

 

have you confirmed with the Council how much the Liability Order is for - do not believe the Bailiffs figures? Do they live on the premises? How is the list of goods arrived at they want to take if the Bailiff has been denied access?

 

PT

[tomtubby]

I am new to this and asking on behalf of my parents.

They as a company both are directors(though no wages for 2 months)of a public house.Unfortunately due to a downturn intrade and weather business is bad and dad has not paid business rates since September and un beknown to us all adopted head in sand theory!

Baliffs arrived yesterday but were refused entry to the pub!

The bill is for business rates which is a company but the bill has only dad's name on it..........they have made a list of things from their house that they want to seize including their car....and some that were parked in the car park!(We understand they cannot take these).Can they take mum and dads personal belongings for a company debt and their car?They will go away if dad pays £3000 debt is £6500.

Help mum is devestated and dad seems like a broken man.Unfortunately i have no funds to bail them out or i would.

 

You say that Mum and Dad are Directors. I would therefore assume that the company trades as LTD. If so, a bailif cannot take any goods that belong to them personally. With levying upon cars in a car park...NO WAY AT ALL!! This would appear to be an invalid levy.

 

I run an advice service providing bailiff advice to the public and it is so very worrying that we are receiving so many enquiries from people that run public houses as they are finding a huge downturn in trade since the effects of the recession have taken hold.

 

However, from many that I have come across, it has been seen that a lot of Pubs are owned by a Brewery who also own all of the goods and assets inside to include drink and beverages. These items would therefore be exempt from seizure.

 

If you can find out any more, please both post as there is always somebody here to help.

Edited January 27, 2011 by tomtubby

[alison9blue]

Hi,thanks have contacted council figures are correct not made up by baliffs.Mum and Dad live in cottage next to pub,they were denied ascess to pub to list but went into cottageand made listings including car on pub car park.....dad signed this(i know he has probably cooked his own goose here).The company is listed as ltd!Hope this helps.

 

Thank you.

Only now does he decided to take his head out of the sand!

[crabbingtime]

Firstly you need to check the Liability Order an see if the Limited Company is the rate payer and not your parents!

 

If this is the case your father needs to write to the Bailiff, immediately, advising he owns the assets the Bailiff has described in his walking possession agreement. The Bailiff would then need to revert to the creditor to ascertain whether they accept the 3rd party claim over the goods. They have a limited time to do this, 7 days I believe!

 

I recall when tenants move into pubs they purchase the fixtures and fittings from the brewery, they make up the in-goings on a tenancy. You need to clarify whether the Limited company or your parents personally paid these funds. If your parents paid the money they will not be available to the bailiff.

[tomtubby]

Hi,thanks have contacted council figures are correct not made up by baliffs.Mum and Dad live in cottage next to pub,they were denied ascess to pub to list but went into cottageand made listings including car on pub car park.....dad signed this(i know he has probably cooked his own goose here).The company is listed as ltd!Hope this helps.

 

Thank you.

Only now does he decided to take his head out of the sand!

 

I am pretty confident that they cannot go into the private living accommodation to levy upon goods. I will check with this in the morning.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

It's the occupant, the lease holder who owes the rates. This will be the LTD company.

You need to go back to the council and point out their error.

Send some evidence, there must surely be some written communication - an agreement or lease from the brewery somewhere.

 

Once they are aware they should issue a new bill / liability order.

 

This is not the same as getting the name wrong, like chasing' Mr Smith' at an address where only Mrs Smith still lives. In that case they could just change the name on the liability order.

Not so in this case, they are NOT the occupant, the occupant's spouse, co-habitee or jointly liable in ANY way.

The Ltd company is a separate legal entity, so much so, that even if you are the sole director of a LTD company, the money in its bank account etc., is NOT yours, its the company's.

Same goes for debts and liabilities.

 

It's common for pubs to reincorporate, close down and open up (the same day) as a new debt free company.

Some people say it's morally dubious, i would say that a £6000 tax on bothering to soldier on running an unprofitable, vital part of the community was immoral, but what do i know...

 

Those 'cleverer' than you and i would have no problem seeing the pubs boarded up, then sold on as a 'development opportunity', because that's just what we need - more over priced studio flats.

Yeah.

[lordsugar]

The whole purpose of trading as a ltd company is to protect personal assets. If the liability order is in the company name then none of your parents goods can be seized unless his car is registered as part of the buisness. If your parents are named and not the limited company then the bailiff can remove any of their goods to cover the debt and fees.

 

Speak to the brewery as they can often help and will provide a list of fixtures and fittings.

 

Ring the council to clarify the name on the bill if its wrong tell them ...produce the lease and they will have to re bill the company and cancel the bailiffs.

[MARTIN3030]

There arent actually that many brewery owned estates these days-many are owned by property management companies...in the trade known as pub co's

If the pub is run as a tie,then any stock that has not been paid for on account is effectively still belonging to the supplier.

Its a sad sign of the times that so many licencees are facing this sort of action,and is even more prolific as councils face budget defecits.

Thes days its essential for publicans facing these issues have inventories in place.

Its the aggro and stress that go with these instances.

If bailiffs had to work even 10% as hard as licencees to earn a living-they would throw in the towel very fast.

[tomtubby]

There arent actually that many brewery owned estates these days-many are owned by property management companies...in the trade known as pub co's

If the pub is run as a tie,then any stock that has not been paid for on account is effectively still belonging to the supplier.

Its a sad sign of the times that so many licencees are facing this sort of action,and is even more prolific as councils face budget defecits.

Thes days its essential for publicans facing these issues have inventories in place.

Its the aggro and stress that go with these instances.

If bailiffs had to work even 10% as hard as licencees to earn a living-they would throw in the towel very fast.

 

Martin.....excellent response.