coop /smile DN RECEIVED

[citizenB]

Agreed, if they havent sent a Default Notice or Termination Notice then they are probably just going to farm out the account to a DCA. Let us know if you receive any further letters from either the Co-op or external 3rd party DCA.

 

Before they can start action they have to follow the rules before they can take that final step.

 

As soon as you can afford it, I would suggest you send the Co-op a Subject Access Request.

 

There is a template SAR letter in the CAG library But if you need any further help, just ask.

[intree]

uPDATE:

 

I have just received a letter from the cooperative, with another copy of the agreement, with another (differenet - and slightly clearer) set of terms and conditions to which they refer on the signed one page document, I am not sure if this is enforceable, but they have stated in their letther,

 

"We feel that it would be wise for you to make the payments as agreed, we have now provided a copy of your agreement which complies with the CCA 1974, we also have your transactions to the account, which will confirm that you have made use of the funds and are therefore liable for the balance now which you question, we now expect a repayment proposal within 7 days, failing which we will have to appoint our collections department. This could involve Court Proceedings and a CCJ against you, which will adversely affect you obtaining any credit in the future.

 

We now expect you to return to the agreement and follow the repayments as before, there is no longer any dispute with this account.

 

Kind regards

 

Cooperative Bank

[jimbo45]

Hi there

IF all the paperwork is valid then I'd suggest you have 2 main options --and actually its far better dealing with the CO-OP Bank than any DCA.

 

1) Try and get a Full and Final settlement

2) If that doesn't work arrange a re-payment plan that YOU can realistcally stick to.

 

You can always say -- If you DON'T accept my proposal you can of course get a CCJ -- but you still won't get your money any quicker as a Court Case will allow me to show the judge that I really CAN'T afford more than XX pounds a month so you are probably going to have to wait EVEN Longer to get your money back.

 

Incidentally if you DON'T own any property then there is no danger of a Charging order etc so you could theoretically just sit out on a CCJ without EVER paying them ANYTHING --the only thing they could do is threaten to screw up your Credit rating with a CRA --but as I keep pointing out to people if you are in this situation where you can't afford to pay back what you currently owe then these threats are TOTALLY MEANINGLESS -- DO NOT EVER WORRY ABOUT POOR CREDIT RATINGS WHEN YOU ARE ALREADY IN DEBT --the last thing you want or need is yet MORE credit.

 

The whole solution to all this is for YOU to take control rather than being dictated to by someone else.

 

Circumstances change so what seemed an easy contract when you signed the original deal might now through NO FAULT of your own have become impossible.

 

Offer what YOU can afford --and if the Bank doesn't like it tell them to go and Foxtrot Oscar and you don't care tuppence about CCJ's etc.

 

Put like that a Bank will rather get a few percent of X than attempt to get 100% of YYY when they have utterly no realistic chance of getting it.

 

Cheers

jimbo

[intree]

Thanks Jimbo, I understand your response and will look into the options, but they have already confirmed that they will not accept any proposals unless they come via the CCCS OR PAYPAL - two companies which I did use before, but whom did not continue with their support, when I started to question the agreements of the previous creditors.

 

I was unclear if the agreement from smile was unclear hence my hesitation to continue to pay, until I knew for deffinate.

[intree]

I have not been on the site for some time as all the creditors appeared to have gone quiet, I have now received a DN from the COOP for a visa card which is dated 21 January, 2011, with a remedy date by 04/02/2011.

 

Please can I be advised if the DN is defective as they have not yet terminated the account but have threatened to take the matter further.

 

Thank you as always for your support

[42man]

Hi Intree...you might like to have a look at the case of Brandon vs Amex

[intree]

Thank you as always 42man, I keep my fingers crossed - they have already sent me a copy of their dodgy agreement which has no prescribed terms, but I will wait for them to put in the final nail!!

 

Thank you

[intree]

Hi there

 

I would be obliged if I can be advised if this company is correct in telling me to repay the whole amount of over 7K within 7 days, or they will commence court action.

 

I have a snile visa from 2001, they have sent me a credit agreement which does not have any prescribed terms, they have also sent me a default notice with 13 Days to remedy the account and now this, I have been making reduced payments but they have refused to accept these as they want more, so I could not afford more so stopped making the payments, when they faile to agree to repayments.

 

I am not sure where I stand and also how I can fight this as the agreement does seem and appear to be incomplete.

 

Thank you all as always your advice is appreciated very much.

[woody1066]

When did you last make a payment on this? Can you post a copy of the agreement they sent you on here (minus any identifying information such as names. addresses and barcodes).

[harrassed senior]

These days it is a bit hit and miss with judges as to what they perceive to be an enforceable agreement so you cannot unfortunately rely on that or the discrepancies in the Default Notice.

 

How long is it since you stopped paying, as I would have said that if you are still making payments then they would not receive much sympathy from a judge, doesn't matter whether they 'accept' what you offer or not, if they keep your repayments, then they are accepting, them and a judge would most probably consider it a waste of Court time for them to issue a summons.

[PriorityOne]

Hi there

 

I would be obliged if I can be advised if this company is correct in telling me to repay the whole amount of over 7K within 7 days, or they will commence court action.

Sounds like a nasty threatogram, designed to panic you into phoning.

I have a snile visa from 2001, they have sent me a credit agreement which does not have any prescribed terms, they have also sent me a default notice with 13 Days to remedy the account and now this, I have been making reduced payments but they have refused to accept these as they want more, so I could not afford more so stopped making the payments, when they faile to agree to repayments.

 

I am not sure where I stand and also how I can fight this as the agreement does seem and appear to be incomplete.

 

Thank you all as always your advice is appreciated very much.

 

If your last payment or written acknowledgement of this is within 6 years, then it won't be stat. barred. If all they've sent you is an application or reconstituted doc., then you need to request their confirmation under CPUTR 2008 as to to whether they currently hold an enforceable Agreement under CCA 1974 or not.

 

I doubt they do, otherwise you would have received it.

[dx100uk]

just as a matter of interest intree

 

you've already been through this type of scenario with many of your previous creditors looking at your threads.

 

and you've been successful in most cases

 

why does this one worry you that you don't know what to do?

 

dx

[intree]

Hi thank you all for the replies.............i am trying to locate the one I posted under a smile thread, I have had a bit off a waful time, with bereavement in Family, hence I have lost ground a bit.

 

I know I have been ok with others with the good advice in here, its just that Smile, have refused to consider any offers from me, and when payments have been made they have instigated proceedings as per the letter from Fredricksons, they did send a 1 page agreement and this did seem a dodgy at the time, as they could not supply the accompanying notes or the documents.

 

I am confused on this one as they just ignore all I have to say and keep rolling to a court judgement which they are convinced is imminent, Fredricksons have been sent a letter asking for a CCA comppliance agreement, I am awaiting this still............................I assume their next course will be the idiots from Brian Carter - so will definately need some good advice.........

 

I will try and locate my agreement from another thread, unless someone from site team can kindly link these two together, I apologise for posting twice, if I have done on this matter.

 

Thanks

[intree]

hi the other post and the agreement appears here from January 2011. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?291385-coop-smile-DN-RECEIVED&p=3269207&highlight=

[dx100uk]

freddies dont do court.......

 

just pay them what you can on a regular basis via internet banking..

 

its YOUR money you control where it goes NOT YOUR CREDITORS..you do not NEED to ask their permission TELL THEM!!

 

dx

[PriorityOne]

I am currently dealing with Fredrickson.... and they don't like CPUTR 2008, so question what they've sent you if it doesn't look the real deal (see earlier post).

 

[intree]

THANK YOU ALL AND ESPECIALLY PRIORITYONE

 

I took your advice and sent them the CPUTR 2008 LETTER, Fredricksons have now closed the file and returned the file to their clients - so a little reprieve at the moment - lets see what they do next - I will keep all posted

 

Thank you for this wonderful site

[Happyhippy1959]

Subbing with great interest

[PriorityOne]

Excellent!....

[Happyhippy1959]

great new's intree, just re-read your comments, too high on pain killers for me tooth yesterday... some other pond life will no doubt rear there ugly heads.

[intree]

smile agreement.pdfHi I have recently been contacted by Westcot Slumbags, who have now stated that their client (smile) have advised them that the agreement they have is enforceable, accordingly they advise they will now start legal proceedings via westcot, I attch the agreement - which has no prescribed terms and also confirm it was terminates as above - but not heard anything until now....Please can someone knowledgeable advise.

 

Thank you as always

[Bazooka Boo]

Did you advise Smile when they sent you the agreement that you now consider the account to be in dispute?

 

The dodgy DN is easy really, keep that under your hat as they will simply issue you with a rectified DN if they know it is useless.

[intree]

Hi BB

 

Yes I informed them and once this was done I stopped making payments to them and they then started passing me to DCA, this is the Third one, it was Lowell who sent it back to them then Fredricksons and now these clowns, I have again notified them of the dispute and sent the letter below: I am also confused as I am not able to understand how they can rectify this DN - which was faulty by issuing another, are they allowed to do that BB?

 

Here is what I sent them today:

 

I gathered this information from Consumer Forums:-)

COOPERATIVE BANK/SMILE AGREEMENT – NO AGREEMENT – PRESCRIBED TERMS: FINAL NOTICE

 

 

Dear Mr Musgrove

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated 14 May 2012, your client is unable to supply a enforceable agreement and yet you have advised this is enforceable, accordingly supply me with a copy of the agreement which included the prescribed terms on the signature document, I now believe the account to be in serious dispute and will ask the Financial Ombudsman to Investigate, the harassment you and your clients have instigated for a disputed account and also report the non disclosure of a agreement to the Information Commissioners' Office, after 7 days of the date of the communication.

 

 

This account is in dispute re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

On xxxxxx 2010 and xxxxxxxx 2010 and xxxxxx 2011, I wrote to your Clients Head Office requesting that the Cooperative Bank/ Smile supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

 

In response to this request I was supplied a mere Application Form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.I now ask you to confirm to me, in addition to the above if the agreement complies with the CCA 1974.

 

 

Moreover, in light of the complete absence of any enforceable documentation, I am concerned over the Cooperatives’ persistent attempts to pursue payment on an unsubstantiated debt in defiance of OFT guidelines and the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008 by now passing “instructions” and personal data to you. According to your letter these are in fact instructions from instructions, from your client’s, clients, leaving me to assume that neither your client nor your client’s clients have actually informed you of the facts surrounding the unsubstantiated debt that they have instructed you to pursue and its current legal unenforceability under The Consumer Credit Act 1974; sec 127 (3). I have also assumed that your clients have also failed to mention my recent request for confirmation under CPUTR, a request that remains outstanding to this day due to the reluctance of your clients to provide an answer one way or the other.

 

 

Under the circumstances, should you now decide to accept “instructions” from your client or your client’s clients in the continued absence of any enforceable documentation from anyone at all and/or fail to confirm upon request whether you, your client (Cooperative) or your client’s clients (cooperative) currently hold or have ever held a properly executed Consumer Credit Agreement (Consumer Credit Act, 1974) in your/their possession under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008, then you, your clients and your client’s clients will be falling foul of ss.5(2), 3(b), 6 and 7, their actions/activities will be added to existing complaints and your company will be reported to the Solicitors’ Regulatory Authority without any further notice.

 

 

It would appear that cooperative have already breached CPUTR 2008 anyway by failing to confirm or deny their possession of such an Agreement when requested to do so on 23 July 2010 (by recorded delivery) and passing “instructions” to you regardless.

 

 

Please therefore take note that this letter serves as an additional formal request under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR, 2008 for written confirmation as to whether cooperative Bank, Smile Bank, and/or Frederickson’s DCA or Westcot currently hold or have ever held a properly executed Consumer Credit Agreement in your/their possession pertaining to myself and if not, to kindly confirm so in writing".

 

 

Moreover, the document sent purporting to be a Credit Agreement does not contain any of the Prescribed Terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the Prescribed Terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the Terms are present in the document supplied. Since this document does not contain the required Prescribed Terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states:

 

127(3) The Court shall not make an Enforcement Order under section 65(1) if section 61(1) (a) (signing of Agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with Regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the Prescribed Terms of the Agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

 

Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

● Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

 

 

(2) Distinguishable from the .

 

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit Agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

Since the supplied Agreement is unenforceable it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages.

 

 

I Do not give you consent to visit my property or call me, failure to adhere to this request will result in a complaint to the appropriate bodies who will be furnished with this notice and costs will be applied for any action taken to remedy this action.

 

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

[Bazooka Boo]

A tad long winded, but they should certainly get the message, all that these fools really needed was this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?426-A-letter-when-the-account-has-been-passed-to-another-debt-collection-agency

 

Not to worry, they don't read them anyway and simply continue with their puerile missives.