Dismissed for Gross Misconduct HELP!

[waderobas23]

Hi

I was recently dismissed on grounds of gross misconduct because...

 

its complicated but basically...

I'm a chef worked in a brigade of about 7. On a couple of occasions 6 of decided to play a practical joke on the 7th we'll call him M. The first joke was to hold him down whilst the head chef (line manager) put food in M's face. The second consisted of M having his arms and legs tapped up and his mouth and around his forhead. Then he was dragged on his back through to the kitchen and lifted into a sink of called water. He was then left to get out. Now MY role in the two pranks was, in the first I helped to hold him down in the second, I was just their I saw it I did not take a physical part in it. On another occasion a waitress was taped up and put under a work bench where I then took off her shoe and filled it with mousse.

My former employer is saying that I bullied M and the waitress and that by not reporting the incidents (bearing in mind that my manager masterminded all 3 pranks though the mousse bit was my idea) I was condoning it. Both M and the waitress have protested that I am not a bully and my minimal involvement was not viewed in there eyes as bullying but rather harmless jokes. I had worked for the company for 5 and a half years with an exemplary record, had 1 promotion and on the verge of a second.

My Head Chef had far more involvement than myself as he instigated the pranks video'd them and put them on a social networking site for the public to see bringing the employer into disrepute yet we were both given the same outcombe Summary Dismissal on the grounds of Gross Misconduct.

 

Does this seem right to you guys?? I have appealled and I am now waiting for the outcombe of that but I don't hold out much hope.

 

Thanks for any replys

 

Wade

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to the forum. This is I've never worked in a kitchen but I think the 'victims' [can't think of another word atm] of these pranks are being very tolerant. I can't say I'm surprised your colleague was dismissed for the social network website, we see it all the time here.

 

Is anyone else being disciplined, or is it just the two of you?

 

When were you dismissed please?

 

I'm sure other forum members will be along with comments for you.

 

My best, HB

[SarEl]

You have a different definition of "practical joke" than I do - and it's also different than the one the law uses. This is bullying and harassment - not fun. I don't hold out any hope for your appeal either. The employer is absolutely in the right (and it isn't often I say that) to stamp on this sort of behaviour, and any tribunal in the land would agree with them. What the recipients of these "practical jokes" made of them (or you) and who masterminded them is not relevant in law, and any one of these incidents would have been quite sufficient for a fair dismissal.

[heliosfa]

I'm not too familiar with employment law but I have to agree with SarEl's post. What occured in the first instance than nothing more was a group of people victimising/bullying a single person. The second time, you did nothing to intervene - you could have gone above the head chef's head and reported it to his manager or done numerous other things. As for the mousse in the shoe, that just seems malicious and by adding this "fun" to the party you were most definitely condoning it.

 

I would have to say that you are lucky that the victims have not gone to the police alleging false imprisonment, assault and possibly criminal dmage because, at the end of the day, that is what you were a part of from what you have said. Dependant on the mental state of these victims after these "attacks", they could come after you for psychological damage.

 

If I was one of these victims and became aware that you were trying to appeal your dismissal, I would be disgusted and insulted as it would apear that you were trying to avoid responsibility for your actions.

 

/rant - Sorry - I have no sympathy for people who partake in the unwarranted and malicious abuse of other people and won't take responsibility

 

H

[elpulpo]

You have a different definition of "practical joke" than I do - and it's also different than the one the law uses. This is bullying and harassment - not fun. I don't hold out any hope for your appeal either. The employer is absolutely in the right (and it isn't often I say that) to stamp on this sort of behaviour, and any tribunal in the land would agree with them. What the recipients of these "practical jokes" made of them (or you) and who masterminded them is not relevant in law, and any one of these incidents would have been quite sufficient for a fair dismissal.

Yep. Might I say, as a Chef, that it's silly little boys like you and your superior who give my profession a bad name.

[SarEl]

Yep. Might I say, as a Chef, that it's silly little boys like you and your superior who give my profession a bad name.

 

Really? I had never particularly associated chefs with bullyig before. I may have to look at them in a whole new light. There was me thinking that they were only responsible for silly sized portions under the guise of "classy cooking"!

[postggj]

many years ago i was a chef de partie and horse play was and is never permitted in a kitchen

 

a kitchin is a dangerous place with stoves, stock pot etc

[elpulpo]

No horses full stop. Unless it's a French kitchen.

[marie6666red]

sorry you deserved what you got.....demeaning a work mate under the guise of "a joke" is appalling. i have worked with enough chefs to know they think they are special.....quite simply theyre not.....i hope you learn a lesson from this

[waderobas23]

Hi,

If a joke is played at work (including physical actions by that I mean being held down) on a coworker who is seen to be laughing at and in NO WAY finding the joke offensive humiliating etc Is it then right that the employer can summarily dismiss all persons present regardless of how much of a role they may have played in the joke. For example someone being dismissed purely for witnessing the joke and not reporting it to personnel. Does that constitute gross misconduct? Keep in mind that the coworker having the joke played on them is laughing at the time and is willing to make formal statements in the defence of all persons that have "bullied" him as the company have put it.

[madari]

Hi,What you have described above is `Horseplay during work time`and as such quite easily amounts to gross misconduct in the eyes of a reasonable employer.

 

Any reasonable employer is within their rights to dismiss all participants for the above mentioned actions, pending an appeal of course.

 

The bullied person can try and defend his actions by claiming to play along by way of`fitting in`.

 

I hope the above helps and good luck.

[elpulpo]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?291309-Dismissed-for-Gross-Misconduct-HELP!

 

Have a read of what we told you last time.

[madari]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?291309-Dismissed-for-Gross-Misconduct-HELP!

 

Have a read of what we told you last time.

Thanks El that ,[i wasnt aware of his previous post] ...it seems some people will just not take `No` for an answer.

[waderobas23]

Hi thanks for the response.

So the person that witnessed the horesplay but did not report it because the "bullied" person was quite clearly not being bullied can still be SUMMARILY dismissed on grounds of GROSS misconduct? imo surely a final written warning would have been sufficient. This person has worked for the company for over 5 years with no grievencess etc against him ever.

[elpulpo]

Yes, it's certainly within the range of reasonable responses.

Have you been informed of your right to appeal?

[waderobas23]

Thanks El that ,[i wasnt aware of his previous post] ...it seems some people will just not take `No` for an answer.

 

In my last post I thought that maybe I had not worded it correctly and maybe other posters had not understood what the situation was. I am not trying to waste anyones time, just trying to explain accurately enough so that posters can give me an accurate opinion

[waderobas23]

Yes, it's certainly within the range of reasonable responses.

Have you been informed of your right to appeal?

 

Yes I have had my appeal since my first post and am now at the stage of going to employment tribunal

[SarEl]

Yes I have had my appeal since my first post and am now at the stage of going to employment tribunal

 

Good luck with that - you will loose. We understood your first thread perfectly well. You are a bully and appear to think that acts of humilation against other employees are amusing. You deserved to be dismissed and no tribunal in the land will overturn a dismissal on these grounds. Which part of "this is not a joke and is not funny" did you not understand?

[waderobas23]

Good luck with that - you will loose. We understood your first thread perfectly well. You are a bully and appear to think that acts of humilation against other employees are amusing. You deserved to be dismissed and no tribunal in the land will overturn a dismissal on these grounds. Which part of "this is not a joke and is not funny" did you not understand?

 

I find your agressive posting to be needless and unhelpful if you agree with my ex employers that is fine it is your opinion and you are entitled to it however there is no need for you to call me a bully. You do not know me or anything of me that qualifys you to judge my character. The people I have spoken about DO know me and would support me in saying that I am NOT a bully. They would also support me in saying my dismissal was unreasonable. I am not and have never been a bully. I will not bother to use this site again as I feel more bullied by your needless comments than anyone has ever felt about anything I have ever done.

[SarEl]

I find your agressive posting to be needless and unhelpful if you agree with my ex employers that is fine it is your opinion and you are entitled to it however there is no need for you to call me a bully. You do not know me or anything of me that qualifys you to judge my character. The people I have spoken about DO know me and would support me in saying that I am NOT a bully. They would also support me in saying my dismissal was unreasonable. I am not and have never been a bully. I will not bother to use this site again as I feel more bullied by your needless comments than anyone has ever felt about anything I have ever done.

 

You are a bully and whether or not the victims of your childish "humour" think you are or not is irrelevant - the employer thinks you are, what you have done constitutes bullying and harassment of a serious nature in law, and a tribunal will also think that you are a bully. Your were treated, generally, with more respect that your actions deserved the last time that you posted here. You have come back for a second bite of the cherry because you did not like the answers you got that time. You have shown not a shred of remorse for your entirely inappropriate behaviour, and have sought to blame others for decisions that YOU made to join in the collective bullying of individual staff. You held someone down whilst others smeared food in someones face. You stood by and encouraged the tying up and dumping of a woman and for good measure you filled her shoe with food. You watched and laughed (and I bet jeered) whilst people were systematically bullied, and you participated bith by watching and participating whilst this happened. And you think that I am aggressive??? Tough luck. Not everybody is intimidated by bullies - and that is very certainly what you are.

 

Your dismissal was not only reasonable IN LAW - which is all that matters because nobody gives a damn what people who know you think - but it was well-deserved. Too few bullies are dismissed, and I would certainly support an employer, faced with this degree of bullying in a workplace, making an example of everyone who participates in it. Grow up and take some responsibility for your own actions. Nobody (over the age of two years) is so stupid that they think that the sort of behaviour that you participated in is funny.

[elpulpo]

Yeh.

[madari]

I couldnt have put it better myself !!!

[postggj]

Be it some one is an alleged bully

drink driver

etc, etc

 

what right have we to pass judgement, people come onto the forum to ask for help.

That help and all options should be given without personal insults.

 

We need to remember

 

we all started off asking the forum for help

[SarEl]

There were no personal insults - just the truth. And I seem to recall that you also posted to the previous thread pointing out the fact that the OP had had no regard for health and safety legislation in a kitchen, which, as you pointed out, is a very dangerous place even when people are not acting inappropriately. It is all too common for bullies of this sort to excuse their behaviour by suggesting that it doesn't matter because it was a joke. It does matter, and it is not a joke. And in this case, at least three of the incidents were not only bullying and entirely inappropriate behaviour in a workplace (or, frankly, anywhere else) - they were, had the victims reported it, criminal assualts. So not very funny at all. All the OP is doing is demonstrating that that they lack the maturity to know the difference between humour and bullying, or accept responsibility for their actions.

[hadenough!]

What would you have done if M had drowned after being taped up and dumped in cold water? Joke or not that was an irresponsible and dangerous act!