NATWEST - joint OD, and separate personal loan lumped together by Moorcroft

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi Debs,

Been in respite (denial) for a while.

 

No word from Newman and co. following my dispute letter a month ago.

 

Sorry to seem dim, but do I need to SAR Natwest at this stage? Do you think that they are keeping the accounts open? I suppose if they have closed the accounts and are chasing an amalgamated account then it is a different ball game. Not done a SAR before.

Cheers,

[debbbbsy]

Hi,

 

The SAR goes to the banks data controller, enclose a postal order for £10, and ask for all data on all the accounts, including any reference numbers being quoted by DCA's. Also ask for all credit agreements.

 

The data provided ( & they must comply) will reveal if your original accounts are still active.

 

Also, copy Customer Management Services on your SAR, this is the internal department of Natwest/ RBS/Triton ( don't send them any money), in your letter to them I want you to add a specific request for a copy of your Diary Event History, this is the recovery departments internal log, it records all internal & external communications about you & your accounts.

 

SAR to & enclose £10 postal order

 

Joyce E Tudor ( Data Controller)

Regulatory Risk

Business House B

PO Box 1000

Edinburgh

EH12 1HQ

 

Also send a copy to, and also include letter requesting all data that this department holds, inparticular the Diary Event History.

 

The Recovery Manager

Credit Management Services

Kendal Court

Ironmasters Way

Telford

TF3 4DT

 

I suppose if they have closed the accounts and are chasing an amalgamated account then it is a different ball game.

 

Spot on. If they have closed the original accounts and replaced your indebtedness with a new account, they are screwed, as under consumer law they can only successfully litigate against you if they have a credit agreement. By closing the original account, the debt has ceased to exist. And as no documentation exists showing you entered into an agreement for the new account, the debt is "Unenforceable" under consumer law.

 

I would be very interested to know the outcome of your request, as according to the RBS this practice ceased in 2000.

 

Debs

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi all,

 

Lulled into a false sense of security (ha) by the silence from NW, until today when 2 letters came from ScatCall threatening doorstep visits for each seperate account i.e. loan and overdraft account.

 

As my CCA request to Moorcrap was for the lumped together router account, the seperate accounts are not in dispute?

 

Guess I need to request CCA's for the individual accounts?

 

Advice would be appreciated.

[Bazooka Boo]

What answer have you had re: the first CCA request for the lumped together accounts? Any? None? Are they out of time yet?

 

Snotcall are fools, top of the leader board.

 

IMO, there is nothing which is of an urgent nature here, it's only money.

So NW couldn't supply you with the CCA for the two debts lumped together? They have realised their mistake and now passed it to Snotcall to collect, and they have sent you two demands for the separate accounts?

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi Bazooka,

Moorcroft replied to my CCA request and returning my p.o. for £1 admitting that it the debt was unenforceable but was still owed.

They are out of time and I sent the dispute letter in February.

 

My CCA request was 14/1 and I got a default notice from NW for the loan account only on 18/1.

 

Since then its been passed to New man and now Scat call.

 

My dispute letter refers to the bulked account (ie the two accounts added together) so I guess it doesn't stand for each individual account?

 

Any thoughts please?

[Bazooka Boo]

Do you have Moorcr@ps admission that the debt is unenforceable in writing?

[Rocky Roadster]

Natwest Moorcroft letter 14-01-11.pdf

 

 

I have attached their letter.

[Rocky Roadster]

Natwest Moorcroft letter 14-01-11.pdf

[Bazooka Boo]

That link doesn't work.

[Rocky Roadster]

Hopefully this link will work.

Natwest Moorcroft letter 14-01-11.pdf

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi,

I have written to scatcall and told them no home visits, no telephone contact.

 

I sent 1 letter with the two reference numbers on it. Hopefully that will stop the harassment for now.

[Bazooka Boo]

Ha ha, Moorcr@p still as delusional as ever brilliant!

 

No CCA= No pay.

 

And they will have to tread very carefully if they continue to pursue this without any paperwork, I would keep an eye on your CRF and look out for any of their mucky paw prints, then if they do place a default on their I'd report them to the ICO for investigation as they cannot provide proof of this debt nor your liability to it.

[Rocky Roadster]

Still wary about this one. Scatcall are chasing the two accounts individually, so reference numbers are the original account references and I haven't asked for my CCAs from the original two accounts.

One is a long standing overdraft and the other a loan, so they may have the loan agreement.

 

My dilemma is should I:

 

1) Just send an in dispute letter for each account? Technically, I suppose haven't disputed the individual accounts. The Moorcroft letter refers to a different reference number.

2) Ask for CCA's for each account?

3) See what Scatcall do next?

 

What would be best?

 

Cheers,

[Bazooka Boo]

Just correct me if I'm wrong here, but Moorcr@p had it and can't supply the agreement?

 

They then passed it onto snotcall who have now started to use the correct ref numbers for the two accounts?

 

The overdraft IMO is nothing to worry about, that will be full of reclaimable fees and charges which would technically wipe out anything owed, if however you do know the exact amount you spent then all you need do is repay that amount and forget the rest, they will never go near a court to claim fees and charges.

 

Again the loan, which is covered by the CCA may well have fees charges and PPI you can reclaim, whilst the O/D falls outside of the standard s77,78 request it can still be fought.

 

I am thinking all you should send snotcall is http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?426-A-letter-when-the-account-has-been-passed-to-another-debt-collection-agency with a copy of Moorcr@ps letter saying they don't have the agreement, and see if they take the bait or come up with a reasonable answer.

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi Bazooka,

 

Yes,Triton merged the accounts and passed to Newman, who passed to Moorcrap who gave up; Scatcall are now chasing the two individual accounts.

 

I will send the dispute letter to Scatcall for the loan account as you suggest, and see what happens.

 

Cheers,

[radmm0]

Any news on this Rocky?

Rgds.

radmm0

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi radmm0,

 

Nothing since October. Guess something will happen before too long.

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi everyone,

 

Waste coat have been at it again. They claim that no request for cca received by client, send it again.

 

Original request was sent to Moorcrap who returned my p.o. and stated in writing (twice) that the account was "unenforceable".

 

Here is my contact history log:

 

30/08/2010 Letter from Triton demanding £9.4k. Phone us or pay up.

19/09/2010 Letter from Triton threatening a debt recovery agent to call.

19/09/2010 Letter to Triton: I am dealing with Natwest direct, not authoritsed to speak to you about it. Communicate in writing only, no doorstep visit or else. Posted 21/09

25/10/2010 Letter to Natwest: Can't pay anything, review in 6 months suspend interest?

04/11/2010 Letter from Triton 3/11 : We have been instructed by Natwest… interest will now be stopped….pay up or call us.

05/11/2010 Letter from Triton 11/11/10 demanding payment plus "despite our best efforts…£9.8k

12/11/2010 Letter to Triton: dealing with natwest, waiting for an answer, don't phone, don't call.

11/11/2010 Final notice of intent. Amount due £9.9k. (gone up). Pay in next 72 hours.

11/11/2010 Letter from Moorcroft; notice of intended litigation.

17/11/2010 Letter to mr and mrs from NW for OD and loan - answer to my complaint

15/12/2010 Letter from NW to me re OD.

14/01/2011 CCA request re client ref (new ref) (£9.9k) sent to Moorcroft with £1 postal order, 1st class recorded.

18/01/2011 Approx. date. Moorcroft replied returning PO and confirming unenforceable, but…

18/01/2011 Natwest replied with a default type notice for loan account 4k

15/02/2011 Raised on DAG - Moorcroft chasing £9.9k - letter from Midas legal services (part of Moorcroft) - Ring Moorcroft by 17/2/11 or may go to litigation

17/02/2011 Dispute letter to Moorcroft sent recorded delivery posted 17/02/11. Told them to inform Midas.

01/03/2011 Letter dated 23rd February 2011 from Moorcroft repeating unenforcable, but… On hold for 14 days.

09/03/2011 Letter from Moorcroft with a discount offer.If we don't get an agreement we may recommend legal proceedings without further notice.

15/05/2011 Letter from Moorcroft with one last attempt - discount offer. £9.9k

14/07/2011 Received 18/07/11. Newman & Co immediate action required letter.

28/07/2011 Received 28/07/11 Newman and Co Notice of Further action

28/07/2011 In dispute letter sent Ref (new ref) See what they do next.

21/10/2011 2 letters addressed to mrs from Scotcall threatening home visits for "your longstanding debt".... 1 x £6k and 1 x £4k RBS group.

24/10/2011 Letter to Scotcall: no home visit, no telephone contact.

23/01/2012 Letter from Natwest cms: Default notice. Payment required by 16/01/12? Date of notice 16/01/12. Received 23/01/2012.

27/01/2012 Letter from Wescot: Final Notice, or else.

11/02/2012 Letter to mrs from Nelson, Guest and Partners Solicitors. Offering discount if we negotiate with Wescot by 21/02/12

27/03/2012 Letter from Nelson Guest and Partners Solicitors. Wescot is still waiting for a realistic repayment proposal or litigation.

02/04/2012 Replied - in dispute letter as in Newman & co.28/07/11

18/04/2012 Letter from Wescot, no record of requesting a cca. You will need to send a letter direct to client along with £1 payment to request this.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have copies of all letters.

 

Do I need to request my CCA again?

Should I copy the Moorcrap letter to Waste coat admitting no document?

 

Discounts have been offered (by DCs) as you can see from the above contact letters so I guess they won't go to court?

 

Grateful for any advice / support.

 

Cheers,

[Bazooka Boo]

IMO I would simply send them the 'in dispute' letter and nowt else, you don't have to do their sleazy job for them,

Triton IS Cr@pwest, and I believe NG& partners are their tame fake sols.

 

You've done all you can IMO, you have all the evidence you will ever need to show any DJ, now would be a very good time to raise a complaint with the OFT&TS and the FOS, your getting nowhere talking to their computers.

[debbbbsy]

Grateful for any advice / support.

 

You have done brilliantly.

 

I wouldn't bother with another CCA, I also think the 'This account is in dispute' letter is good enough. perhaps print off a few copies ready for the next moron DCA.

 

Debbie x

[radmm0]

Thanks for the details of your case Rocky and well said Bazooka. I'll most probably go down the OFT & TS route very soon, as the boys and girls at FatFest are a total waste of everyone's time. They keep sending me the same letter stating that they'll be in touch within the next 20 days with answers to all my complaints and account in dispute letter sent last Nov. This has been going on since Dec 2011!!

Just one question; does one have to raise both OFT & TS complaints together? If not, which one should be first? What about the Financial Ombudman Service? The strange thing is that FatFest actually suggest in one of their many 'will be in touch in the next 20 days' letters that I should go to the FOS if I'm unhappy with the way my complaint is being handled! What does that mean to you?! Don't bother with the FOS, as they're a complete waste of time, since they seem to act FOR the financial institutions in many cases brought in front of them?!!

Rgds.

radmm0

Edited April 26, 2012 by radmm0
Mis-spelling

[debbbbsy]

Don't bother with the FOS, as they're a complete waste of time, since they seem to act FOR the financial institutions in many cases brought in front of them?!!

 

From my own experience of the FOS, sadly I have to totally and utterly agree. An institution run by ex bankers and directly funded by the banks they are investigating.

 

Make the complaint, but under no circumstances expect your complaint to be upheld regardless of hoe strong your complaint.

 

Debbie xx

[Rocky Roadster]

You have done brilliantly.

 

I wouldn't bother with another CCA, I also think the 'This account is in dispute' letter is good enough. perhaps print off a few copies ready for the next moron DCA.

 

Debbie x

 

They have had the "in dispute" letter, so I was thinking maybe:

 

"I have copies of all my letters to NW and recorded delivery details of same. If you are not prepared to acknowledge your legal obligations then I consider the matter to be closed."

 

What do you think?

[debbbbsy]

if you have sent the letter, its in their court. do nothing.

 

debbie x

[Bazooka Boo]

In my opinion RR, if they have already had that letter, and they are continuing to send you toddler group jokes then you need do nowt else, just lodge a formal complaint about them each and every time the little children send you a letter.

 

Seriously, I am of the belief that if you continue corresponding with eejits like DCA's, they will continue to send you all manner of false and empty threats, purely because they like to think they're having the last word, Ignoring them, unless you want to bait them and waste their money, is the only way to deal with them, you write one solitary response to their begging letters and they will hunt you down and shoehorn you into a debt you never had. (IMO)