Help....council tax bailiffs....returning in 48hrs

[cassiedaisy]

Hi everyone

 

I had a letter through the door today, they did knock but luckily I did not answer.

 

I have council tax arrears which I have been struggling to pay, as usual unfortunately.

 

I have made previous arrangements via letter/email only but have regrettably fallen behind with this....foolish I know but too late!

 

Letter today states full balance *** due. Failure to adhere will result in their return Fri 6am to enforce & seizure of goods, removal is left unpaid. This action will take place in your absence if necessary. Under certain circumstances removal contractors & lock smiths may be used. The police will be in attendance if necessary to preserve order. All this is really making me scared....which I know they want.....but I am dreading Friday morning.

 

I know from reading post over the years not to let them in and not to talk to them if at all possible & hide cars is a good policy.

 

However, reading other post whislt giving knowledge also worries me.

 

They have never been allowed entry and I will never allow entry. But will they just lie and claim to have levy to gain entry? I have read posts where police have even assisted with this!!

 

Our only income is irregular from self employment & that have been fairly no exsistant ( living solely off tax credits for months) , we have no credit facilities, no savings and literally £40 to last until next Monday. I try to maintain installment arrangements but find this difficult at the momment due to lack of funds.

 

The only solution is reduced installments but I appreciate the end of the financial year is creaping up and they will be reluctant to accept.

 

Thanks in advance for any advise & know it a common issue but feel so alone at the same time.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there

So long as you haven't let them in you are OK -- NEVER NEVER EVER EVER pay a Bailiff for Council Tax arrears -- these Bailiff's have ZERO right of entry into your home and Rossendales are one of the worst lot.

 

PLEASE REPORT THIS BALIFF COMPANY AS THE POLICE CERTAINLY WILL NOT BE IN ATTENDANCE WITH BAILIFF'S FOR COUNCIL TAX ARREARS . The ONLY exception to this is if there is a High / other Court Warrant for execution and I doubt if your case has got anywhere near that stage yet. The Baliffs certainly are NOT ALLOWED TO INTIMIDATE people with false threats etc. The company doing this should be STRUCK OFF IMMEDIATELY.

 

Don't speak to them even through the letterbox. If they won't go away you can call the police --- ensure Windows and doors are locked as they CAN come in so long as they don't force their way in.

 

Incidentally though hide any vehicle as some of the nastier vesrions of these Pond Slime and Bottom Feeders will sieze -- illegally - vehicles to levy on them.

 

Now try and come to some arrangement with the Council --they by LAW have to take Council Tax. If they refuse to accept it then go to Court again when the demand comes in probably a year later and explain you have tried to pay the Council but they aren't interested. A Court will give you a FAR FAR better deal than any Bailiff company.

 

Most councils have some type of online payment mechanism so use that if you can't come to a direct arrangement with the council.

 

Ignore all their threatograms about Statutatory demands, Bankruptcy orders etc etc. It will have to go to a Court first and if you've attempted to pay something via say the online system and the Council has refused the Court will actually be on your side-- chances are it won't go anywhere near a Court since the Law on Bailiff rights is very explicit in the case of Council Tax arrears -- They have NONE.

 

Incidentally if you really have zero income check the Benefits --you might be able to claim some --and certainly look at the rules for Council Tax relief -- you could be entitled to this too. While you are applying for this collections will be suspended.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited January 5, 2011 by jimbo45

[cassiedaisy]

Hi Jimbo

 

Thanks for your fast reply.

 

We are currently getting full council tax benefit due to lack of income so luckily debt is not increasing at all.

 

The council did accept installments of £60 weekly in Sept 2010 but said it had to be paid to the bailiff. It was a payment plan which was unrealistic for us to meet and have paid very little since that arrangement was made.

 

Who do I report the bailiff to & do I simple send a copy of the bailiff letter that was left today?

 

Thanks again for your support it is greatly appreciated.

 

I can't spend another year like this and I WILL start making payments online directly to the council from Monday AND stick with it!!

[jimbo45]

Hi there

you DO NOT have to pay the Bailiff. Just tell the Council you are paying THEM and that's the END OF IT. If they don't accept payment KEEP their reply and wait to see if it goes to Court -- You will get a REALLY EASY RIDE in Court if it goes that far.

 

Insist that you are ONLY PAYING THE COUNCIL AND NOBODY ELSE.

 

The only fees you can get charged for in addition to the Council Tax Liability order is for the Bailiff's first and 2nd visit fees which together won't add up to more than around 40 quid. DO NOT PAY VAN / WAITING TIME / LEVY FEES - especially if you haven't let these slime into your home.

 

In the 21st century using a 12th century mechanism for collecting tax is NOT ON -- we don't need thugs and strong arm tactics to enforce tax collection.

 

Report the Bailiff's and their company to the OFT, the Court where the Bailiff is certified, Companies House for incorrect operation of a business and to such bodies like the BBC and SKY NEWS.

 

Baliff's certainly can't threaten to change locks and have Police in attendance WITHOUT A COURT WARRANT which I'm 99.9999% sure they haven't got --- most council tax issues are raised via a Liability Order which when not paid is simply handed over to a Bailiff.

 

A further Court hearing is required for a "Warrant of Execution" before these Bottom Feeders can break in etc etc -- and this takes a LONG time to do.

 

Report the Council also to the Local Govt Ombudsman -- unlike a lot of bodies this one actually has teeth. The Council will have to reply to them and state what they are doing to ensure their agents (The Bailiff company --somebody like Rossendales) don't behave like this again.

 

Added -- if these **** are threatening to come on Friday -- a common day for Dustbin Collection ensure you don't leave any doors unlocked while you are putting your bin out into the street.

 

These ODIOUS people have been known to use this trick to gain admittance --while you are wheeling the Bin into the Street they sneak in via the open door.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited January 5, 2011 by jimbo45

[cassiedaisy]

Ok I will do the above.

 

In the meantime should I not even write to the bailiffs & just contact the council with a more realistic payment plan?

 

I realise the bailiff will be a pain and just keep calling anyway......as it is my heart misses a few beats anytime someone knocks on the door!

 

But I realise paying them, even by agreed installments, just encourages the council to use bailiffs if it is proven to clear the debt for them.

[jimbo45]

Hi there

 

After a few attempts the debt will be returned to the Council as "Nullo Bono" anyway. Even the stupid Bailiff companies will realize that they are just wasting their time and will move on to their next victim who unfortuantely hasn't heard of CAG and doesn't know their rights.

 

Note however the Council CAN charge you for the two Bailiff Visits allowed (only 2 doesn't matter how many times they actually attempt to call either) .

 

This is around 40 GBP for the two visits allowed by law These fees are laid down in Law unlike "Van Fees" waiting time etc etc.-- but DO NOT PAY THIS TO THE BAILIFF COMPANY -- only to the council if they add it to your bill. If they want you to pay this direct to the Bailiff company just tell them to "Foxtrot Oscar". You CAN pay it to the council.

 

The first step in any Debt situation is for YOU to be in control -- not dependent on somebody else pulling the strings.

 

Once you know your rights its easier to deal with as you can say THIS is what I have and this is what I'M prepared to pay -- if you don't like it we'll let a Court referee the issue and usually in these cases so long as you can offer something the Courts are quite reasonable.

 

Never let a DCA / Bank etc dictate how much you have to pay. Stay in control and it becomes so much easier.

 

Many many people have got into debt etc because of all sorts of reasons including changed marital circumstances, jobs offshored to India so unemployment, deaths, illness or even just plain inexperience with handling money loaned by irresponsible lenders.

 

It doesn't make people BAD -- it's a normal occurrence and the popularity of sites like CAG just show how many ordinary people have problems.

 

What is BAD is the horrendous and disgusting methods employed by the various Banks and Debt Collection agencies --this is what needs serious regulating --big time.

 

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited January 5, 2011 by jimbo45

[wonkeydonkey]

Jimbo is correct they cannot force entry unless they get a directive from the court to do so...the court rarely give that directive unless they can see the debtor has not and will not make any attempt to pay. You have clearly attempted to pay and have sadly been forced to do so at a rate that is clearly unsustainable for you.It is often a case the debtor does not owe the amount being alleged by a bailiff as although they are only entitled to a total of £42.50 in fees, many try to inflate the figure by claiming for work they have not done ie: levy. and of course the van fee, waiting time, tea break fee, scratch the bum fee are nice little earners when they come across someone who does not know their rights.

 

You must first ring the council and ask what period the liability order covers, how much the liability order was for, the date when it was passed to the bailiff and how much is now outstanding ( bet the figure differs from the one the bailiff is saying you owe) then come back here and caggers will tell exactly how much the bailiff has added in illegal fees and help you write to both Council and Bailiffs (to try and get you back what you are owed) meanwhile be very realistic about how much you can truly afford each week and make a payment of that amount direct to the Councils own online payment scheme, if you can only manage £5-10 a week then so be it, for as long as you make that payment on the same day every week you are showing you want to satisfy the debt.

 

Easy said I know but try not to worry about this, you are in the right place here on cag to get all the help you need.

[cassiedaisy]

I must admit I do tend to make unrealistic payment plan offers that I then can not maintain them, not just with council tax but with all arrears, then failed payment plans causes problems as people then refuse your offer!

 

My child benefit is paid weekly so I will email the council with an offer and start paying on Monday & ensure I continue payments.

 

I have 2 liability orders for council tax which were with seperate bailiffs. The council said they would combine the 2 and put with the 1 bailiff.......as the council are helpful like that.

 

The amount the bailiff have requested is just 1 liabilty order so they obviously haven't communicated well so far. Obviously I am not going to tell the bailiff I owe more than that.

 

I have tried emailing the bailiff before but they have never replied to any emails or communication in the past year.

[cassiedaisy]

Hunted out my previous letters from the bailiffs, the arrears they are trying to collect this week relate to 2009-2010 council tax. Although I have arrerars for 2010-2011 aswell. I might actually take control this time and get it sorted.

 

The original liability I believe was £1315.71.

 

I had a letter back in Jan 2010 demanding £1509.60, which I believe was there first letter, stating they would return in 5 days to remove goods.

 

Had a final removal notice 9th March 2010 saying they were going to seize goods for auction.

 

It took until May 2010 to get a breakdown, which they provided but with no dates.

 

It says the following:

Original due 1315.71

1st letter 24.50

2nd letter 18.00

Levey fee 56.39

Attendance fee 95.00

Amount paid 350.00

Direct payment 59.60

Benefit adjustment 216.83

Outstanding balance 883.17

 

I had an arrangement to pay £50 weekly which was unrealistic and currently they claim the balance to be a little under £700

 

Obviously my concern if they do call tomorrow is that they think they have a levy.

 

I have managed to never answer the door to these bailiffs, infact I think yesterday was the first time they actually knocked on the door. Therefore, I have never spoken to them face to face nor on the phone. They do not reply to emails and rarely reply to letters either.

 

Needless to say I have never let them in or signed anything.

 

I am going to email the council today to complain about them implying they can enter and seize goods and the illegal fees.......what can I do tomorrow other than ignore them if they turn up?

[cassiedaisy]

Everyone's help so far is greatly appreciated.....trying to compose email to Council how does this sound to you? ( I haven't spellchecked it yet!!!)

 

I refer to you reply dated 03/09/2010.....(council agreed to £60 per week to bailiffs)

 

Despite that communication I have to unable to get any agreement from bailiff to accept any payment arrangement.

 

They have not replied to any communication via post or emails.

 

Instead they persist in adding illegal fees and making threats which are untrue and possibly a criminal offence as their claims are fraudulent. Whilst I appreciated bailiffs will apply fees but I believe there are some discrepancies with their charges.

 

Since September 2010 our financial position has significantly declined.

 

I feel my only option now is to report the bailiffs and their company to the OFT, the court the bailiff is certified with & Companies House for incorrect operation.

 

I really need to take control of this debt and make weekly payments at a realistic rate during this difficult finanical time.

 

Therefore, due to the discrepancies on the account I will make weekly payments of £20 directly to the Council. If and any point I can increase payments I will and I endeavour to clear this debt as soon as financially possible.

 

I wish the Council to withdraw the arrears with the bailiffs and return this with the Council, as the bailiffs are instructed by the Council to collect the arrears.

 

I would appreciate a breakdown from the Council of the original liabilty, payments that have been made and what has been offset against the debt and the outstanding balance. The bailiffs fees should be no gtreater than £42.50 for 2 visits, any other fees they have added are invaild and illegal. I have requested a breakdown from the bailiff aswell.

 

It should be noted that I am not refusing to pay this debt but asking for a fair payment period considering my circumstances.

Edited January 6, 2011 by cassiedaisy

[caledfwlch]

Jimbo is correct they cannot force entry unless they get a directive from the court to do so...the court rarely give that directive unless they can see the debtor has not and will not make any attempt to pay. You have clearly attempted to pay and have sadly been forced to do so at a rate that is clearly unsustainable for you.It is often a case the debtor does not owe the amount being alleged by a bailiff as although they are only entitled to a total of £42.50 in fees, many try to inflate the figure by claiming for work they have not done ie: levy. and of course the van fee, waiting time, tea break fee, scratch the bum fee are nice little earners when they come across someone who does not know their rights.

 

You must first ring the council and ask what period the liability order covers, how much the liability order was for, the date when it was passed to the bailiff and how much is now outstanding ( bet the figure differs from the one the bailiff is saying you owe) then come back here and caggers will tell exactly how much the bailiff has added in illegal fees and help you write to both Council and Bailiffs (to try and get you back what you are owed) meanwhile be very realistic about how much you can truly afford each week and make a payment of that amount direct to the Councils own online payment scheme, if you can only manage £5-10 a week then so be it, for as long as you make that payment on the same day every week you are showing you want to satisfy the debt.

 

Easy said I know but try not to worry about this, you are in the right place here on cag to get all the help you need.

 

afaik Council Tax Bailiff's CANNOT under any circumstances force entry, there is no such thing as a Warrent of Forced Entry for refusing to deal with council tax bailifs.

 

Peaceful Entry, or if a Walking Posession has been signed are the only routes into a house. You can tell a judge you refuse to pay, he can imprison you for that, but he still cannot send Bailiff's to force entry if they have not been in before.

[cassiedaisy]

Just had a reply from the council saying this:

 

Your reduced offer of £20.00 a week would take nearly 52 weeks to clear and is therefore unacceptable.

Any question regarding the bailiffs fees or communications should be addressed to *****

I will put a statement of your Council Tax account in the post to you today which gives the details of the Council Tax liability and credits assigned over the periods in question since 1 April 2009.

I confirm that the two Liability Orders remain with the bailiff and you should contact them to request any variation on your original arrangement offer of £60.00 each week.

I have sent this reply:

Thank you for your prompt reply.

I have tried making arrangements with the bailiff who never ever reply, I am unwilling to phone them as that leaves me with no proof of conversation. Unfortunately bailiffs do tend to lie!!

Legally I am not obliged to pay the bailiff.

They have added illegal charges of over £200 which they will take before paying the council arrears.

I appreciate how long it will take to clear the arrears, but I am self employed & currently making no profit.

Also, I need to be realistic with my offer bearing in mind that 2011-2012 council tax will soon be upon us and need paying; so that I can ensure the arrangement is maintained and the arrears cleared. It is because of unrealistic payments plans that arrangements fail in the first place & no one should be forced into agreeing to an unsustainable arrangement.

I will commence payments directly to the council from 10/01/2011 and continue to do so until the debt is paid in full.

I now intend to complain about the actions of the bailiff, working on behalf of the Council to my local MP and contact the Local Government Ombudsman regarding this matter; as the bailiffs are making threats / invalid charges which are both fraud and illegal.

Obviously I knew the Council weren't going to willingly accept my offer, but i feel even £20 will stretch the finances. I will start paying weekly and hopefully the bailiff will get fed up with visiting me.

 

I would appreciate any further thoughts.

 

Thanks for all the support I have already had.....it really does help

[seanamarts]

Hunted out my previous letters from the bailiffs, the arrears they are trying to collect this week relate to 2009-2010 council tax. Although I have arrerars for 2010-2011 aswell. I might actually take control this time and get it sorted.

 

The original liability I believe was £1315.71.

 

I had a letter back in Jan 2010 demanding £1509.60, which I believe was there first letter, stating they would return in 5 days to remove goods.

 

Had a final removal notice 9th March 2010 saying they were going to seize goods for auction.

 

It took until May 2010 to get a breakdown, which they provided but with no dates.

 

It says the following:

Original due 1315.71

1st letter 24.50 This would be a visit fee not a letter fee, find out from them when this visit took place

2nd letter 18.00 As above, they cannot charge for a letter fee, try and find out when the 2nd visit took place

Levey fee 56.39 Did they enter the property to levy, if not find out what they levied on and ask why there wasnt a notice left on what they levied from

Attendance fee 95.00 Cannot charge this unless a valid levy has been made and are there to remove goods. (correct me if I am wrong on this)

Amount paid 350.00

Direct payment 59.60

Benefit adjustment 216.83

Outstanding balance 883.17

 

I had an arrangement to pay £50 weekly which was unrealistic and currently they claim the balance to be a little under £700

 

Obviously my concern if they do call tomorrow is that they think they have a levy.

 

I have managed to never answer the door to these bailiffs, infact I think yesterday was the first time they actually knocked on the door. Therefore, I have never spoken to them face to face nor on the phone. They do not reply to emails and rarely reply to letters either.

 

Needless to say I have never let them in or signed anything.

 

I am going to email the council today to complain about them implying they can enter and seize goods and the illegal fees.......what can I do tomorrow other than ignore them if they turn up?

 

The council can take back the debt, Talk to some one from the benefits and revenues department not some one from the back office.

It is obvious that the council know you are on a very little income so should be helping you to reduce this at an affordable rate not passing it on to bailiffs to make you more into debt. Have a word with your local councillor they may be able to help out.

[cassiedaisy]

The corresponance I have had so far with the Council has been with the Local Taxation Manager. I will contact my councillor.

 

If they levied on something outside, even though I have never received any paperwork, does that make them entitled to enter my property?

 

Edited January 6, 2011 by cassiedaisy

[hallowitch]

The corresponance I have had so far with the Council has been with the Local Taxation Manager. I will contact my councillor.

 

If they levied on something outside, even though I have never received any paperwork, does that make them entitled to enter my property?

 

no this does not allow them to enter your property

sending you a PM

[cassiedaisy]

Thank you Hallowitch

[hallowitch]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/45/made

 

45.Distress

 

(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

 

 

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index/campaigns/current_campaigns/council-tax-arrears.htm

[cassiedaisy]

Thank you very much for the links and your help its greatly appreciated.

 

x

[cassiedaisy]

Hi, just a quick update.

 

Bailiffs have not been back.......................so far so good.................they have also failed to reply to emails.

 

Council refusing to take arears back.......but have said they will accept any payments ( I know they have no choice !) kind of them to do that!! I will fight this all the way. They have quoted government legislation regarding bailiff fees which I return a reply quoting section 45.5 - distress which bailff has not adhered to.

 

I will be sending recorded letter to bailiff Monday requesting breakdown & sending complaints to everywhere possible.

 

Thank you to everyone that has helped me take control of this situation & your advice............you are all stars xXx

[hallowitch]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?212401

 

ask the council and the bailiffs for a written copy of there complains procedure

 

make a freedom of information request to the council for a copy there service level agreement between them and the bailiffs

ask the council for a copy of there own code of Patrice when dealing with debtors

 

ask if they signed the citizens advice good practise protocol (think i sent a link)

[sezcalv]

I too am avin nothing but trouble with rossendales they attended my house for the 3rd time yesterday left a letter to say i'v 24hrs or they'll be back i av not ignored their letters previous to this but i av tried offering em a weekly amount but they just keep rejecting it and saying they'll accept £183.00 a wk i dont even get this in wages all i seem to get is abuse which is why i wont phone them anymore i'm scared to be in my own house and this is making me ill i just cant seem to be able to get this sorted so if anybody knows where i can get help for this it would be much apprieciated was going to go to CAB this week to see how they work regarding these matters but not even sure at this stage if anything can be done other than me feeling threatened my these horrible people. Please please please can someone point me in the right direction and where i stand with all this.

[hallowitch]

who did you speak to on the phone rossendales or the bailiff

has the bailiff levied goods

[cassiedaisy]

Hi sezcalv.....welcome to the forum

 

I assume you have read this thread and the advise it contain, plus many similar threads on here.

 

It's not nice waiting for a knock on the door, wondering if they will call.

 

You really need to start your own thread to get help from the wonderful people on here, based on your situation and details. There are many that will assist you.

 

In the meantime, I think the main thing is try not to let them scare you, don't bother talking to them, dont answer the door. People have debts for many reasons but taking control is essential. Ensure you pay every week, fortnight or month whichever is best for you directly to the Council without fail. Thus you are reducing this debt and proving you are not unwilling to pay.

 

Only pay what is affordable but try to clear as soon as you can, sooner it is paid sooner the knocks on the doors will stop is the way I look at it. Having said that I have very limited funds and feel it will take sometime for me to fully clear my debt

 

Good luck......my thoughts are with you

[sezcalv]

Hallowitch it was rossendales office i spoke to about 2month ago but they just refused all my offers of weekly payments i daren't even phone the bailiff.

 

cassiedaisy thanks for the advice but i wasn't aware either that i could still pay the council for this debt i thought with it been in the hands of rossendales i had to deal with them.

[hallowitch]

Hallowitch it was rossendales office i spoke to about 2month ago but they just refused all my offers of weekly payments i aren't even phone the bailiff.

 

cassiedaisy thanks for the advice but i wasn't aware either that i could still pay the council for this debt i thought with it been in the hands of rossendales i had to deal with them.

 

 

you should really start your own thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=168

 

I would suggest you find out who the head of revenues is at your council send him an e-mail informing him that you have tried to negotiate payment with rossendales but they have refused all offers made and wont accept payments of less than £183.00 a wk inform him that you don't earn £183.00 a wk and every time you try to speak to them you feel they are abusive over the phone therefore you will be paying the council £xxxx per week until the debt is paid in full

 

now rossendales will deny this as per usual (thats when you tell the council you will if necessary subject access request rossendales for a copy of the phone recordings)