Sharp cut in Incapacity Benefit

[leemack]

18 months? I'm happy to be corrected - and am always sceptical of some of the things I'm told by dwp staff.

[Imrys]

My claim, of course, is still valid as I'm receiving the benefit at the reduced amount.

[chrissieh]

Ok -may be clutching at straws here -but if you look at the latest form for claiming IB-page 7 pension rules: it states that these pension rules DO NOT apply if :

' your IB entitlement began prior to 6/4/2001 OR if your current claim links to a claim made before 6/4/2001'

Well, if your IB started on 6/4/2001 then surely the claim must have been made before to that date ?

 

Again, best wishes, chin up.

[leemack]

Unfortunately not, as you can claim in advance for incap, but its the start date of the claim that matters.

[jabba jones]

Well, if your IB started on 6/4/2001 then surely the claim must have been made before to that date ?

 

LeeMack is correct in the post above.

 

Imry was in receipt of 28 weeks SSP from his/her employer up until 5/4/01, hence the IB claim starting on 6/4/01. & that is how they were able to input the claim on the computer system prior to the actual start date.

 

I'm afraid as long as these dates are correct then the occ pen decision is also correct. The only appealable parts as I see it, are if Imry notified the occ pen at any time prior to it been discovered by the IB section or if any of the calculations are incorrect.

[TimChor]

Hi,

I have just joined after reading the threads on this subject. I am also in a similar situation. I became unable to teach in 2002-3 due to ill health grounds, and went through, the ssp and IB process. In 2003 I was finaly allowed to retire with an ill health pension (no mean feat). I rang incapacity benefit to inform them of this. On the phone the man i spoke to informed me that they knew, and would inform me if my incapacity benefit was to change. I had no correspondance until march/april 2004 informing me of updated payments for the upcoming year as happens around that date. This has continued each year until november 2010 when Benefit Integrity Centre sent me a form to complete about my pension. It had on the form something like "You previously told us you have a pension...." I duly completed it and sent that years p60 as evidence, and recieved a letter dated 14/01/11 informing me of changes to my payments and also changes to the payments dating back to december 2003. No mention of repayment but advice on how to appeal at the end. I have no proof of the phone call, however is the form they sent me ( "You previously told us you have a pension....") evidence they knew I told them I had a pension, and therefore I am not at fault for this potential overpayment. Surely they would need to use the form as evidence in an appeal to show I provided the information? Then could I use the same form to prove they knew?

[chrissieh]

As the form makes mention of you telling them about a pension then you should be Ok.

Cannot stress enough that copies should be kept of every form you fill in for DWP/ Inland Rev etc. It would appear that a lot of these cases are cropping up - quite why I dont know. But if you have filled in all the forms honestly and in good faith then the error is theirs not yours - as is the case with us.

We had the letter re repayment about 3 weeks after we got the forms stating the new amount and overpayments made.

[Imrys]

Today I received notification of overpayment of £30,800.

I have not yet received any reply to my GL24 appeal, any documents re. my SAR or any letter beyond acknowledgement from my MP.

The DWP thoughtfully included an envelope so I could send them the cheque. Now, where do I get the money from?

Edited February 11, 2011 by Imrys

[honeybee13]

Hi Imrys. I'm sorry to hear that. Have they sent you their calculations? I personally wouldn't pay anything if I didn't understand where the figure came from.

 

My best, HB

[Imrys]

They sent me a list of calculations that appear to make sense. This was with their initial letter on 24th December and noted early on in this thread. The list was not re-sent with this notification. I understand their reasoning, I think.

However, my contention is that between my application (or whoever applied on my behalf because I was ill at the time and had help from my Union and the Social Worker) and the change of rule in 2001 and my first drawing the benefit nobody told me that the rules had changed. It's unreasonable to expect me to know the ins and outs of benefit law especially, as I say, they did not apply when I put in my application.

There must be grounds at least for contributory negligence on their part. Everything I did in early 2001 I did in good faith, including relying on getting sound advice.

[chrissieh]

Hi- I can only tell you what I would do next-so forgive me if its repetitive or trying to teach my grandmother ...etc etc......you must be exhausted and exasperated so bear with me. Monday I would ring the JobCentre Plus number which appears on the letters you get normally re your IB- usually an 08457 number. Tell them you desperately need to speak to someone about an IB overpayment-someone who has access to your file. they will probably re-direct you to your local office -Doncaster right ? I would not ring the office where the last letter came from - they are only interested in the debt.

When you can speak to someone who has access to your file - tell them you are in despair and need help Explain the worry is making you very ill. Explain that everything you did back in 2001 was in good faith but at a time when you were very ill and had to rely on others to help you fill in forms and who can remember forms they filled in 10 years ago ? Therefore you need to get copies of those forms sent to you before you can do anymore - check if the SAR request has been actioned. Try and get the name of the person you are talking to (presuming they are helpful) and a direct number. The last thing you need is to keep repeating your case. The idea is that you need THEM to do the work for you. Get them to promise to get back to you.

Get in touch with the people you get your pension from - Teachers Pension ? Ask them if they have any records which could help. What about your old Union ? Just because you are retired dont discount them.

Would recommend CAB after that but I dont think you had much joy there- but if you end up needing a solicitor they may be able to advise.

Best wishes.

Edited February 12, 2011 by chrissieh
mis spelt

[tinafromeast]

Imrys,

 

I'm just 'bumping' this to the top to check that you're OK.

[Imrys]

Still here, thanks. I'm waiting for a call back this afternoon from the people next up from the telephonist who told me it was natural for the DWP to ask for money back...

 

Edit: courtesy call back. The Decision Maker will call me tomorrow afternoon, she's not working today.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Imrys

[chrissieh]

OMG... I am banging my head against the wall on your behalf.

[Imrys]

Thanks. Your thoughts are most welcome.

[Imrys]

I spoke to Doncaster's Decision Maker today.

She told me she'd requested all of my documents and found that in 2002 I'd informed the DWP that I had a pension and how much it was. The DWP had not actioned that and that was an error - her word.

She's spoken to Ilford (or wherever) and, basically, the overpayment may now cover the period 9/01 to middle of '02, and would come to around £2000.

I can only assume that my letter in 2002 was because that was the first time they asked for the information since I'd been awarded IB in April 2001, took first payment in Sept. 2001 without any further contact. But with the notification of increase in IB that comes every year I'd have told them then. I think. I haven't seen that form and can't remember filling it in.

 

Regarding my appeal. Following advice on here I appealed in a general way 'applied in good faith,' etc. She said as a point of law I will not get back my full IB and that the appeal, if I go through with it, would fail. She offered me the chance to withdraw it but I thought I'd ask you guys first.

 

Overall, she seemed very helpful and sympathetic, said she as a Decision Maker would never have sent out such a decision on Christmas Eve, or over that period at all and that whoever did not deal with my 2002 form should have been reprimanded.

 

What do you think about any further appeal and possible grounds for. I can find the money to pay £2k but could I/should I appeal over that?

[chrissieh]

Well, firstly, I am sighing with relief on your behalf- when my OH was told the same thing - that an error had been made by them- it was a huge weight lifted. It makes a big difference also when the person you are speaking to is sympathetic to your circumstances. As for the the £2000 I dont know what to advise - I would still be tempted to contact the pension supplier and ask if they have any records from 2001. You will, of course, get a much reduced amount of IB now and thats just a fact we have to accept. Hope someone can advise re the appeal and that you sleep better tonight.

[Imrys]

Thanks.

 

Oddly, I haven't lost much sleep; I don't know why because I'm a worrier by nature. It has got to my gut a lot though and I'm on prescription antacids - and it's tightened my throat to the extent I can't speak properly. Globus pharyngis it's called.

 

Now we'll see how it progresses from here.

[Imrys]

No thoughts on the £2000? I applied before the rules changed and informed them when they next wrote to me the following year.

[Imrys]

Having still not heard in writing what the decision maker told me last week and considering the deadline for appeal is next week I'm going to appeal against the full amount. I may also call the decision maker back to ask her what's happening.

[Imrys]

I phoned the decision maker to find her nonplussed. She reports that although she's provided documented proof of error Ilford and the debt dept don't want to recalculate how much I owe them and would rather I appealed (or simply went away and paid up, I suppose. As if). She told me she woke up at half past two this morning thinking about my problem.

 

I have three issues:

1, the original reduction in my benefit. As I noted above the coincidence is incredible that my decision should fall on the precise date the law changed.

2, getting the overpayment down to the £2k the decision maker says it ought to be

3, since I had no reason to tell the DWP about my pension, having applied before the change in the law and not receiving any notification of this, I don't think I should owe them a penny.

 

What do you think?

[Imrys]

Bump. I really could do with some informed thought, guys...

[ptol]

This is a bit of an off chance, but since the decision maker is not too impressed with their behaviour, you can always try asking her if she is able to make a decision based on the information in front of her, that you do not have to repay the original total as a substantial part of it is an official error, and that Ilford need to request overpayment of the right amount.

Edited February 25, 2011 by ptol

[Imrys]

Thanks; I've sort of done that (yesterday). It was a convoluted discussion over the phone because she was so annoyed with Ilford. I'm pretty sure I'm going to appeal the full amount.

 

She's asking also whether I want to withdraw my original appeal against the decision to include my pension in the calculation. The cynic in me wonders if the DWP have massaged the date to ensure I fall on the wrong date by just that one day. I mean, it's a 1:365 chance against. My luck on the Lotto is not that good!

I replied I needed time to think.

I'm also passing this info onto my MP but so far I've only had an acknowledge me of the original letter to her on 11 Jan. I've sent her three in total so far and another is drafted ready to post.

[ptol]

She's asking also whether I want to withdraw my original appeal against the decision to include my pension in the calculation.

Reading between the lines (and some guesswork), if you remove this part of your appeal, then the decision maker can find fully in your favour, as she can agree completely with your appeal. On the information available to the decision maker, she is not able to state the correct overpayment for you to repay, so is then free to decide that it has not been possible to define an overpayment for you to repay and so require you to repay £0. Case closed.

 

By leaving that part of your appeal in place, then the decision maker has to find in the DWP's favour on the aspect of the pension payment, so Ilford then have the opportunity to then calculate the correct overpayment and request you repay it.

 

 

It would be a bit of a gamble, relying on instinct, but if it does not work out as expected, you do then have an appeal stage.