Urgent: I need some help/advice re: Equita bailiff - action due tomorrow 5th Nov 2010

[needinfo]

Hi there,

 

I've read quite a few posts on the forum and now have a general idea of what to do and what not to do (or what should have been done!) but would appreciate advice regarding the current situation since it may be too late?

Apologies if there's too much information but I just want to be sure and find out where she stands.

 

Here's the deal:

 

My girlfriend received a knock on the door by an Equita bailiff on 23rd September 2010 re: unpaid council tax.

Unfortunately, she was waiting for a courier that day and mistook the Bailiff knocking the door for the courier.

The bailiff explained who he was and asked to come in, to which she agreed

(Having read several forum posts here today, we now realise that doing this was not a good idea).

 

Anyway, he was actually quite a pleasant chap and explained the situation to her and gave her 2 documents.

One of the documents was a standard 'Delivered by hand - BAILIFF REMOVAL - Final Notice' red letter (she can't recall receiving any letters prior to this) dated 23rd September 2010 stating 'Payment due in full - 24 Hours'. Nowhere on this letter is an amount stated although it does mention the outstanding Council Tax Liability Order. He crossed through the content of the letter and circled his contact details and went on to explaining the other document and what was involved/what would happen.

 

The other document is an Equita 'Form 7 - Notice of seizure and inventory of goods' - I'm guessing this is a pretty standard document at the 'I'm in your house' stage. The printed form has space for Bailiff ref, Debtor Name and Address, Bailiff Name etc and states 'I have attended today at the above address to seize and distrain upon goods and chattels for' with Council Tax ticked.

It goes on to say 'Absence of payment will result in goods being removed and sold at public auction ....' etc.

There is an 'Inventory of goods' section where he listed TV, Xbox and DVD player (all of which my girlfriend doesn't actually own).

 

The form also has 'Form 8' - 'Form of walking possession agreement (request not to remove goods immediately)

 

He got her to sign the form and get her to agree to pay the debt on or before 5th November 2010, but to call him if she anticipated any problem with this arrangement.

 

The amount owing on the Council Tax is £1314.96

Bailiff costs (inc VAT) £263.50

Nothing under 'Total amount if paid today' or 'Bailiff costs continue at _p per day thereafter'

Total: £1578.46!!!

 

Is this daylight robbery or what?

 

With the above scenario in mind, my girlfriend is fortunate enough to be in a position to make full payment tomorrow if necessary, but is it necessary? ie, can the Council Tax arrears be paid directly to the council and can the Bailiff fee be fully/partially avoided?

 

I read some of the comments in another thread about £42.50 bailiff fees and speaking to/paying the Council directly, but to be honest I'm confused as to what can and can't be done under the circumstances.

 

The only other thing to add was that my girlfriend called the bailiff earlier this evening and left a message on his voicemail re: payment and that she'd call him again in the morning.

Unfortunately, this was before reading through some of the posts - it's a real shame we didn't find this forum before now but you live and learn.

 

As time is of the essence, any good advice would be most appreciated so thanks in advance.

 

Regards,

 

 

 

needinfo

Edited November 5, 2010 by needinfo

[dx100uk]

pay the council what they want by internet banking using the details on the back of a ctax bill.

 

as for the bailiff.

 

 

write to the bailiff co asking for a breakdown of his fees and a screenshot.

 

when the bailff calls, dont let him in, tell him its been paid direct to the council and that you are disputing his actions/fees/charges.

if he will not leave, call the police.

 

if you have had no previous letters etc, then i think he is trying to fleece you blind.

 

i would also complain to the council about his actions

they are responsible for what he does as they have employed him

don't be fobbed off, ask to speak to the chief exec office if they play silly buggers.

 

you should also have received court papers and a liabilty order well before he got to your door.

if you did not get those,

then you need to ask the council where they were sent too ask well

 

dx

[seanamarts]

As DX has suggested your girlfriend can pay direct to the council via their online payment facility.

The levy is invalid as the items do not belong to her so the bailiff cannot charge for these, all your girlfriend owes at this stage to the bailiff is £24.50.

May I suggest your girlfriend pays what she owes to the council via internet and print off the receipt and either pin it to the door for the bailiff to see when he comes round, She will however incur another bailiff fee of £18.00 for a second visit. However this can be included in with what she owes to the council. Alternatively she can text the bailiff that the bill has now been paid and all relevant paper work has been faxed/email to the bailiffs office.

You need to write/email the bailiffs office and ask for a breakdown of fees and to let them know that the items listed did not belong to her. This makes the levy invalid

A state dec may need to be obtained and this can be done at your local county court or at a solicitors. It usually costs about £10.00

A bailiff can however Levy on a first visit, but be sure to get a breakdown of all his fee's and charges as what he has charged is wrong.

[hallowitch]

he cant levy etc etc on the first visit.

 

dx100ulk this is wrong bailiffs should levy on the first visit thats the reason for the bailiffs visit to levy distress

 

 

For making a visit to premises with a view to

Levying distress (where no levy is made)

Edited November 5, 2010 by hallowitch

[needinfo]

Thanks so much for all the help and advice so far.

 

As she needs to get on this asap in order to avoid today's planned visit, to summarise:

 

My girlfriend need only pay the CT amount + £24.50 to the council via internet payment and then follow this up with a text to the bailiff to advise what's been done, ie payment made direct.

Thereafter, send copies of the respective documentation to the council (complaint) and bailiff co. (receipt and stat dec) as appropriate?

 

Does this sound right?

 

Many thanks again for all your help, it is most appreciated.

 

 

needinfo

[dx100uk]

yes sorry amended

 

dx

[needinfo]

All done.

 

Thanks again for the invaluable advice and assistance.

 

Regards,

 

 

needinfo

[hallowitch]

the bailiff has made 2 visits to her property so legal bailiff fees are £42.50 pay this and the amount outstanding on the liability order

 

 

As it stands the bailiff is under the assumption that he has a valid levy as no one has laid claim to levied goods as of yet therefore he can assume they belong to the debtor

Having said that The bailiff wont re-enter your property to remove goods

when a bailiff Levy's goods the goods levied must cover

all bailiff fees removal fees storage fees auction fees and a substantial portion of the debt so unless the TV, Xbox and DVD player are top of the rage and would make a considerable amount at auction he wont re-enter to remove them

 

you will have to contest the levy either by a statutory declaration or several letters of complaint to Equita and your council

[hallowitch]

To: (the bailiffs) (their address)

I (your name)

of (your address)

Do solemnly and sincerely declare that:

the items listed

tv

x Box

DVD player

are not the property of (your friends name) and (reason why they were there) and have always been my sole property

And I make this solemn declaration conscientiously believing the same to be true and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835 and Section 5 of The Perjury Act 1911.

 

signature:

 

Declared at

 

On the day of two thousand and

 

Before me

 

A Commissioner for Oaths, or Notary Public/Justice of the Peace/Solicitor having the powers conferred on a Commissioner for OathsBefore me

 

 

 

councils don't administrate there own council tax they outsource it one of the company's some councils use is Capita who own Equita

 

As you are dealing with Equita i suggest a stat dec is the way to go get 3 copy's send 1 to equita 1 to the revenues department of your council ask for it to put on file for future use if necessary and 1 to keep they MUST BE SENT BY RECORDED DELIVERY

[needinfo]

Wow!

Now that's thorough.

I can't thank you guys enough for this invaluable information.

Getting the remaining docs sorted asap.

 

Btw, to confirm - the bailiff has only made the one visit to date.

Now he's had the text message and from what you're saying about the listed goods (they're not top of the range), is it fair to assume he won't be returning?

Thanks,

 

needinfo

[hallowitch]

what you're saying about the listed goods (they're not top of the range), is it fair to assume he won't be returning?

Thanks,

 

No it fair to assume that he wont re-enter the property with a locksmith because once he takes this action he would have to sell the goods at auction

and he cant do that as they have very little value and wont cover the fees

 

He will however still pursue the outstanding fees until you have either provide the stat dec or go down the invalid levy route ( because the goods levied wont cover the fees) and get it in writing that the levy and associated fees (van/attendance)have been cancelled

 

 

Bailiff company's add there 1st 2nd visit fees before they visit

 

phone the council and ask for the date the of the liability order the date it was passed to Equita and the amount

 

send an e-mail to Equita asking for a breakdown of fees this will tell you when the 1st 2nd visits were allegedly made

 

If you can post up the notice of seizure (removing all personal info) it would help

did you look to see if the bailiff is Certificated

[needinfo]

Hi all again, an update:

 

C Tax amount + £24.50 paid via Internet to local council last Friday morning - have a Payment Authentication Receipt email and PDF copy of web page receipt/confirmation.

Sent bailiff a text advising that the bill has now been paid and that documents will be sent to Equita.

Still need to get the Stat Dec witnessed by an appropriate signee (doing this today).

Have an email address for the council's council tax dept. Although, have no email address for Equita and refuse to use the insecure contact form on their web site - does anyone have a valid email address for Equita?

 

Last night, my girlfriend and I arrived outside her house to find the bailiff sitting in his vehicle with an accomplice. As soon as he saw that I had opened the front door and picked up the day's post, he immediately told me 'Oh, ignore that' - referring to the red 'Bailiff Removal - payment due in 24 hours - final notice' letter.

He then said that he was there to speak to her, but asked me about the payment on Friday. I advised him that indeed a payment had been made to the council which covered the cost of the outstanding council tax + £24.50 fee. I did not however, disclose the full amount.

He then advised me that he'd checked over the weekend and 'sometimes, with the way she paid, these things don't show up straight-away'.

I advised him that I could assure him that she has a receipt for the payment - he didn't ask to see this.

 

By this time, his bouncer-like accomplice was standing by the vehicle in the middle of the road with arms crossed - obviously in an attempt to be menacing and intimidating.

The bailiff then approached my girlfriend although I didn't catch what was said as I was making sure the front door was locked.

 

Words were exchanged, although not particularly aggressive until I mentioned that my girlfriend was writing to both the council and Equita concerning all of this.

He asked what was the nature of the correspondence to which I replied that she wants to request a break-down of his 'charges' and to complain about the manner in which she was made to feel intimidated on his previous visit.

The bailiff then proceeded to show me a copy of the original walking possession order stating that the break-down was already clearly shown ie, the split between council tax amount and his 'charges'. I argued that the amount shown could not in any way be considered a break-down.

 

It was clear that the conversation wasn't proceeding as he would have liked and his parting comments were that my girlfriend had 24 hours in which to pay or he'd be back with a locksmith to gain entry.

 

 

Having checked the Certificated Bailiff Register on the HM Courts site, the 'Bailiff in charge' is not listed - what is the significance with this?

 

Also, under the circumstances, clearly, physical documentation won't arrive at either the council or Equita before the 24 hours is up - what action should she take now?

Do you think the threat of returning with a locksmith is a valid threat considering a) the value (or lack of) of the goods he's intending to remove and b) the fact that she doesn't actually own the goods?

 

I suppose the key thing this afternoon is to get the Stat Dec done.

 

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

well he cant use a locksmith

usual crap from them

 

hallo should be up soon

 

dx

[needinfo]

OK great, thanks for your comment dx.

 

Just found this:

 

Non-certificated Bailiff

Working on behalf of companies and organisations, a Non-certificated Bailiff has the power to recover the money owed for a variety of debts by seizing and selling a person's goods. However, Non-certificated Bailiffs cannot levy distress for rent, road traffic debts, council tax or non-domestic rates.

[ploddertom]

First off any

Breakdown

has to come from the Company and not the

bailiff

. He is clearly trying to intimidate/bully/harrass/threaten which if done in a public place could be possibly classed as a criminal offence. His threat of the locksmith is just that. To do that he has to get the authorisation of the Claimant then go before a magistrate and prove that you were wilfully refusing to pay and pretty please could he have a piece of paper to allow him to force entry. This is something that is very rarely given so I wouldn't worry, if he does call again keep up the good work and deny him entry.

 

You could always contact the Council higher ups and complain their contractor is being a pain in the derriere and ask them to call him off, if they refuse you could always remind them they are wholly responsible for any actions he takes and you will have no hesitation in naming the Council as Co-Defendant in any future action you may take.

 

PT

[needinfo]

Off to get the stat dec signed shortly.

 

Assuming he does turn up again, is it worth giving him a copy of it or just ignore the visit?

At the moment I've no reason to believe he won't turn up again today.

[needinfo]

Just to double-check, I spoke to Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 who advised that this bailiff had a hearing due in July this year and advised me that I'd need to speak to the regular county court for confirmation of certificated status. He said that it doesn't necessarily mean that the bailiff isn't certificated ie, it could be that the court hasn't sent through updated details (July was a fair few months ago though?)

Anyway, I called the county court but was asked to call back later. So, in lieu of obtaining completely accurate confirmation, should my girlfriend text the bailiff saying that she's checked the HMCS on-line Certificated Bailiff's Register and that the search does not show him as certificated?

I also found out that he works for another bailiff company and so at this stage, can only assume Equita are sub-contracting.

[ploddertom]

Whatever you do don't ring them and tell them what you have - collate your info first and if what you appear to have is correct you can fire both barrels together.

 

PT

[Mr Worried]

subbing

[needinfo]

Hi again,

Got confirmation that this bailiff is indeed certificated. Called HMCS to advise and query why the database hadn't been updated and was advised that any changes should have been notified by the court.

Basically, the list isn't 100% trustworthy so I would advise anyone not to rely on it and make as many enquiries as you can to find out the exact position/situation.

 

Anyhow, back to today - any advice on if the bailiff turns up again tonight?

ie, should she just be able to hand over a copy of the Stat Dec and send him packing?

 

Also, got all contact details ie, email addresses, postal addresses and fax/phone numbers for both council and Equita now re: complaint so the idea is to email, snail mail and telephone.

 

Any more advice?

 

Thanks so much.

 

 

needinfo