Stan1 v Lloyds TSB ***WON***

[Stan1]

Hi All,

 

Excellent site - if I'm successful in my action against Lloyds then I hope there're easy instructions on how to donate the 5%...!

 

I delivered my S.A.R. (Subject Access Request) letter, by hand, to my local branch today. I've been with Lloyds since around 1992, although I rang them up to find out when my account changed to a student account and they told me May 1997. As such, I requested a list of all charges (or all statements) etc. from May 1997 until present day. I've looked at my charges online and I've been fined £500 since July 2002 (as far back as you can look online).

 

I will therefore be claiming from around 9 years back; if anyone thinks I should stick to just 6 years and do a claim for anything before that seperately, then please let me know.

 

Thanks!

[lucid]

Hi Stan,

 

Don't take my word for it but I'm pretty sure I've read some advice given to somebody in a similiar position to you. They were told to seperate the claims, so claim for 6 years first and then once that is finished attempt to claim for the earlier charges.

 

Good luck. Lucid

[livelylad]

hi Stan, i am in the middle of a claim from RBOS, awaiting court date. I have also now just asked for all my statements from 1988 til 2000 then i will attempt to get my charges from them. This link will help. Check out seminoles thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

[Stan1]

Thanks for your responses. I will wait until I receive all details of my charges and read around a bit more before I make the final decision. At the moment, however, I'm inclined to make a single claim for the entire amount. Like I said though, more reading to do....

[Stan1]

Like some others on here, I'm having a little difficulty with understanding how/what/etc. interest charges can be claimed back. This has nothing to do with the 8% rate applied when you reach the moneyclaim stage, rather the fact my account has been constantly overdrawn for as long as I can remember and Lloyds have charged me interest on this (if the total sum of charges hadn't been applied in the first place, I wouldn't have been overdrawn).

 

Can I include in my inital claim the amount of interest they've charged me over the years for these unlawful charges? Apologies if this has been dealt with 000s of time before but I've been unable to find any specific reference to it! If someone could direct me to a link explaining some of this I'd be very grateful.

[Stan1]

Re. my previous post: I found the info I was looking for! Will be using the template spreadsheet, but changing the rate to the 18% that Lloyds have charged me for each charge that's been applied to my account and made me more overdrawn.

[reload]

Hi Stan,

 

Overdraft interest is a sticky area. Some people will advise you to go for it, others will tell you to stay away for simplicity's sake.

 

Personally, I'm one of the latter. You can't, unfortunately, arbitrarily claim for the full overdraft interest you've ever been charged - the interest on overdraft amounts which are from valid overdraft usage are unfortunately lawful, so if you attempt to claim them back your case could get struck out of court.

 

However, if you claim for the o/d interest proportionally to the amount of overdraft which is down to penalties then you will be okay. As an example, say you have a £100 o/d up to the limit, and you are charged £10 interest. £70 of the overdraft is legitimate, £30 is penalties - you could therefore claim £3 back.

 

Personally, I ignored the o/d interest and just went for the 8% in my first claim.

[Stan1]

Thanks for the advice Reload - I hear where you're coming from. I've spent nearly the entire last 6 years being overdrawn and charged for it. Whilst that in itself is absolutely fine by me, when I factor in the amount of unlawful charges I've had applied to my account from years ago and being charged overdraft interest for them too, then I feel that to claim some back may be valid. However, I wouldn't want that to jeopardise my main point of action.

 

I definitely need to think about this some more and read around. When I've discovered exactly how much in unlawful charges has been applied to my account over the years, I'll attempt to work out the interest I've paid on those charges and take it from there.

[reload]

If it helps, there is a spreadsheet available in the Bank Templates Library - the advanced spreadsheet - which Vampiress put together. May well be of help to you

[Stan1]

My statements arrived and I calculated that I have been charged £900 since 2000. I sent in my Prelim letter via email on 9th October.

 

Weirdly enough, I received another batch of statements this weekend going all the way back to 1997. There were an extra £800 of charges on those. I now plan to add these to my inital schedule of charges when it's time for me to send in my LBA, around 23rd October.

 

I know people have said it's probably best to do 2 separate claims, but I'm going to push ahead for all of my charges I've incurred on my account, even those ones from longer than 6 years ago. I don't believe the Statute of Limitations should apply as I have an ongoing contract with Lloyds. I will also argue that the Statute of Limitations shouldn't apply anyway as I was unaware at the time that the charges they were applying to my account were unlawful.

 

Any help or advice in this would be much appreciated. I'm going to continue to read around this site and look for all the info I can.

[Stan1]

I know the contractual interest charged on these unlawful charges can get quite complicated. From 1st January 2004 to now, I have been overdrawn by more than the total of unlawful charges,with overdraft interest being charged at 18.40% APR. To simplify matters, I am going to claim back overdraft interest from the total of all charges up to 1st January 2004. That means I'll be claiming back overdraft interest on £1418 (made up of unlawful charges) which has been charged to my account from 1st January 2004 to now. I hope I'm making sense! Any thoughts on this? Technically, Lloyds owes me more than that - can I jeopardise my case by simplifying things even if it means I'm claiming less than I could do from them?

[Stan1]

Anyone got any thoughts on what I'm attempting to do with the contractual interest?

[Stan1]

Haven't updated this for a while. Just thought I'd let everyone know that I've been set a date for an Allocation Hearing at my local court, on Monday 15th January 2007.

 

My claim includes charges beyond the 6 years and also includes contractual interest. Hopefully these additions to my claim won't mean I'll become one of the first test cases! As usual with people at this stage, the nerves/paranoia are beginning to kick-in and I'm starting to convince myself that I'll be the first person to go to court and lose! Everything's gone to plan so far, so it's basically all about sitting tight for the next 19 days or so and checking my post and online balance regularly.

[elsinore]

Hi Stan.

Have LTSB picked up on the pre-six years element of your claim in their defence? Or, for that matter, the contractual interest?

 

Did you request alternatives to contractual interest in your claim?

 

Elsinore

[Stan1]

Hi Stan.

Have LTSB picked up on the pre-six years element of your claim in their defence? Or, for that matter, the contractual interest?

 

Did you request alternatives to contractual interest in your claim?

 

Elsinore

Hi Elsinore,

 

No, Lloyds haven't mentioned the pre-six years element or the contractual interest in their defence.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you talk about requesting alternatives to contracual interest in my claim? I attempted to simplify the whole contracual interest part of the claim in the spreadsheet particulars by totalling all charges up to January 2004, and then claiming the contracual interest they've charged me since then (I've been overdrawn by more than the sum of those charges for the enitrety of the time since then, January 2004 - present).

[GaryH]

Hi Gary,

 

Do you know if Lloyds and/or their legal representatives tend to turn up to the Allocation Hearings? I have one on 15th January. I haven't been directed by the judge to bring anything with me - should I assume I'll need the full court bundle, or is that only for the Final Hearing?

 

Many thanks,

 

Stan

 

Hi Stan:)

 

Coincidentally, I've actually got an allocation hearing today myself - 12:15. Not v Lloyds though, Abbey.

 

They're nothing to worry about at all. Nothing can be won or lost on that day so there is'nt any real pressure on you. They are just to decide on which track your claim should be allocated to and what directions should be ordered, etc.

 

You won't need the court bundle, although it would be advisable to brush up on your knowledge of the legal basis of your claim, just in case the judge asks any general questions.

 

You need to go ready to argue that the claim should be allocated to the small claims track. Here are the main arguements which I'll be using at mine today -

 

POINTS FOR ALLOCATION TO THE SMALL CLAIMS TRACK

 

 

 

1. It is a consumer dispute

The small claims track is designed particularly for consumers.

 

 

 

2. The claim is well below the 5K threshold.

As the claim is well below 5k, you filed it believing that it would be dealt with in the small claims track.

 

 

3. CPR Overriding objectives

Under the overriding objectives of the Civil Procedure Rules, the court has an obligation to ensure both parties are on an even footing. The Defendant is one of the largest financial institutions in the UK. The Claimant is an ordinary consumer. It is submitted that to allocate this claim to any other track than that of small claims would create a huge imbalance between the parties in that the costs risk to the Defendant is completely insignificant, whereas to the Claimant it could potentially mean financial ruin.

 

You can also propose directions for the court to consider ordering. Take along a copy (well 3 copies actually) of BF's draft order as per this thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionaires.html.

 

I would say its very unlikely that Lloyds will turn up, although not inconceivable. They don't usually. In my application hearing against them they sent a letter instead! In most cases though they have settled beforehand, so this may actually still be the case for you.

 

As I said, its certainly nothing to worry about, in fact it'll be good experiance of the small claims court in a situation where you have no real pressure on you.

 

Be polite and punctual - call the judge sir or madam, be on time and well prepared. You'll find that small claims court is very informal. No big court rooms or judges in wigs as you may imagion. Its just a small office type room with the judge and both parties sat around a table. Its designed to be accessible by normal people as opposed to being exclusive to lawyers and legal jargon, etc. You'll be fine.

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

[Stan1]

Gary, thanks very much for your help. Will keep you and everyone else updated!

[elsinore]

No, Lloyds haven't mentioned the pre-six years element or the contractual interest in their defence

 

That's good.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you talk about requesting alternatives to contracual interest in my claim?

 

In the event that a judge threw out your claim for contractual interest, have you asked for interest at a lesser rate i.e. 8%?

 

Elsinore

[Stan1]

No, Lloyds haven't mentioned the pre-six years element or the contractual interest in their defence

 

That's good.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you talk about requesting alternatives to contracual interest in my claim?

 

In the event that a judge threw out your claim for contractual interest, have you asked for interest at a lesser rate i.e. 8%?

 

Elsinore

No, I haven't specified any alternatives. I actually didn't think of that. Hmmm. Oh well, I've got an Allocation Hearing in just over a couple of weeks, so maybe it'll come up then. Better get reading...

 

Thanks for your input, Elsinore.

[elsinore]

I'm pretty sure you will be able to request an amendment to your POC, but Gary will be able to confirm that for sure.

 

Elsinore

[GaryH]

Yes, you could but you'd need a formal application on an N244 form. This would cost you a non-refundable £35 fee. If you decided to do this I would get it in straight away - any applications are supposed to be sorted out before allocation, apparently. Alternitively you could request it at the allocation hearing (if it does get that far) and see what the judge says - I'm not sure whether this would be deemed acceptable or not though to be honest.

 

(BTW, Abbey did'nt turn up earlier - I got a judgement awarded in my favour!! Woohoo!)

[Stan1]

Yes, you could but you'd need a formal application on an N244 form. This would cost you a non-refundable £35 fee. If you decided to do this I would get it in straight away - any applications are supposed to be sorted out before allocation, apparently. Alternitively you could request it at the allocation hearing (if it does get that far) and see what the judge says - I'm not sure whether this would be deemed acceptable or not though to be honest.

 

(BTW, Abbey did'nt turn up earlier - I got a judgement awarded in my favour!! Woohoo!)

Excellent stuff re. Abbey! Waht happens now then? Can you send in the bailiffs?!

[GaryH]

Cheers! It was a Data Protection Act non-compliance claim. They now have 14 days to send the microfiche account information and pay up the court fee and small amount in damages. They could still apply to get the judgement set aside though, so I'm not going to celebrate too soon!

[Stan1]

Well, it's only a few days now until my Allocation Hearing - Monday 15th January. Obviously I'd prefer to get a settlement before then, but I'm happy to attend court too, knowing that it can only speed up any offer from SCM/Lloyds.

[Stan1]

Ok, so I'm now prepared for my Allocation Hearing on Monday 15th Jan. Checked my account and post several times today - nothing's arrived. Anyone else in the same boat? Anyone got an Allocation or Prelim Hearing on Monday? Anyone been to one against Lloyds?