Ross and Roberts council tax and car clamping.

[UKPARANORMAL]

Hi all not sure if anyone is there right now but the bailiff has just clamped my car and Im in the middle of telling him to go away.

The letter went in to the bailiff company and they havnt replied and the "man" at the door will not listen.

I have been in touch with finance company that I have the car with and they have told me to tell him to remove the clamp, he is refusing and the finance company is calling him direct.

Any advice?

[hallowitch]

get in touch with the council ask to speak to a supervisor tell them that the bailiff is fully aware that the car is on HP but has still clamped the car remind the council that they are responsible for the actions of there bailiffs

 

and ask them to the confirm the date of the liability order as said previously by law they cant send in bailiffs without a liability order

[UKPARANORMAL]

Right have done above, the bailiff has gone and left the car clamped.

I have spoken with the finance company and the council and I am getting no where fast.

On the plus side, the clamp is yellow and matches the paint on the car!

now being charged;

£12 walking possion fee, I have not signed any thing.

£24.50 first visit fee.

£18 second visit fee.

£57 levy charge.

£24.50 admin fee.

And there has been mention of £200 charge to remove the car and waiting time costs.

 

The council tax account is in my wifes name and the car is in mine, does that make a difference?

[ploddertom]

Send this immediately to the Council either by hand or email then back it up with a hard copy.

 

Mr Jo Blogs

1, High Street

Anytow

Post Code.

 

The Chief Clerk

xxxx Magistrates Court

 

Date:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Council Ref: xxxxxx

 

I am writing to request that you issue a Summons against xxxxxxx Council by virtue of Regulation 46 Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992 as a matter of urgency.

 

 

I am aggrieved by the levy carried out by Mr Smith of ABC Certificated Bailiffs on (enter date) for the following reason:

 

* The Bailiff visited my premises and he has provided a Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory advising me that he has levied against a vehicle that was outside/on the drive of my home.

* This vehicle is not owned by me. I do not know the owner of the vehicle and it would appear that the Bailiff has assumed that this is my car because it was parked close to my home.

* The Bailiff in seizing this vehicle, has charged me a levy fee of £50 together with an enforcement fee of £150 and I am advised that unless I pay the amount of the Laibility Order of £xxx together with the charges associated with this levy, that the Bailiff will be attending at my property to remove this vehicle to satisy my Council Tax arreas and in addition I will also be liable for further charges for "attending to remove" and I could also be in position of being personally liable to the owner of the vehicle.

* I have written to the Bailiff Company and the local authority concerning this levy but my complaints have been ignored.

 

I trust that this information will be sufficient and please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further information.

Yours faithfully"

 

You will need to adapt it for your own needs by substituting the Finance Company details in it. Give them 24 hours to sort it then apply for the Summons. The Council are responsible for the Bailiffs actions.

 

PT

[UKPARANORMAL]

Just one point. The car is owned by me. But is on a finance agreement? So I do know the owner?

[ploddertom]

Just one point. The car is owned by me. But is on a finance agreement? So I do know the owner?

 

As said you have to adapt it to suit your circumstances. The legal owner in this case would be the Finance Company.

 

PT

[UKPARANORMAL]

Thanks I misunderstood.

Bit stressed at the moment!

[UKPARANORMAL]

Hi all,

 

Sorry for the gap, lost my internet connection yesterday. Perfect timing.

 

The finance company are looking into getting the clamp removed, they insist the car can not be towed but are looking into the legal side of the baillffs actually having the clamp on the car as it belongs to them not me.

 

Plod, I have modified your letter and will be dropping into the council by hand today as I have a previous appointment about this very situation.

 

Kel, I have spoken with a man at the council who insists that although my wife is considered vunerable I am not. So all they will agree with that in mind is that the bailiff should walk away if my wife is home alone. If I am at home he has free reign wether she is in or not.

 

Need to know the following:

 

Do I have to pay the levy charge as it was placed on the vehicle that belongs to the finance company and not myself?

 

There is a £12 pound charge for a walking possession fee. I thought I had to agree to one of those and sign something? Have just found This at the bottom and on the rear of

"Notice of seizure of goods and inventory"

 

FORM OF WALKING POSSESSION AGREEMENT.

 

It has been filled in adated by the bailiff and he has left 2 gaps. One I assume for my signature, and the second for the amount of days yesterdays date before he can remove the goods.

 

Where does this leave me now?

 

Thanks again guys your help is much appriciated.

 

UKP.

[hallowitch]

there should be no levy fee walking possession fee or van/attendance fee added to your account

the only fees the bailiff can add to this account is a 1st & 2nd visit fee £42.50 in total

 

The bailiff wont remove the car because he knows he cant

[UKPARANORMAL]

Have updated the letter as below;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Council Ref:

 

I am writing to request that you issue a Summons against Swindon Borough Council by virtue of Regulation 46 Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992 as a matter of urgency.

 

 

I am aggrieved by the levy carried out by Mr R Fryer of Ross & Robert Certificated bailiffs on 18/08/2010 for the following reason:

 

* The Bailiff visited my premises and he has provided a Notice of seizure of Goods & Inventory advising me that he has levied against a vehicle that was outside/on the drive of my home.

* This vehicle is not owned by me as it on hire purchase agreement with Black Horse.

* The Bailiff in seizing this vehicle, has charged me a levy fee of £57 together with threats of charges for waiting time and removal costs and I am advised that unless I pay the amount of the Liability Order of £1179-63 together with the charges associated with this levy to a total of, at this time,£1270-76 that the Bailiff will be attending at my property to remove this vehicle to satisfy my Council Tax arrears and in addition I will also be liable for further charges for "attending to remove" and I could also be in position of being personally liable to the owner of the vehicle.

* I have spoken with the Bailiff Company and the local authority concerning this levy but my complaints have been ignored.

 

I trust that this information will be sufficient and please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further information.

 

Yours faithfully,

Is this OK?

[UKPARANORMAL]

KEL, you need to clear some space in your in box?

 

Thanks,

 

UKP

[Yoshiro]

I would also look at the first levy, as the car belonging to your brother in law, belongs to him, not the debtor, therefore the bailiff has no rights to it.

[UKPARANORMAL]

I would also look at the first levy, as the car belonging to your brother in law, belongs to him, not the debtor, therefore the bailiff has no rights to it.

 

Thanks for your input but I think you may have misunderstood. My BIL's is another case entirely and he owned the car and is a the debtor.

[feefofum]

Sorry to hear of your troubles and hope it gets sorted soon.. I have a question to all those who deal with bailiffs. Why doesn't anyone ever suggest filming them and the exchanges that take place? With mobile phone's nowadays it's easy to get video footage.

 

Surely that would stop them being so verbally abusive and intimidating?

[UKPARANORMAL]

I suggested this earlier in the thread, and have indeed dug out and kept both a dictaphone and video camera charged and ready to go.

How ever when the proverbial hit the fan I was more concerned with getting the guy out of my garden and away from my property than picking up a camera. So much so that I forgot all about the camera at the time.

[ploddertom]

Hi all,

 

Sorry for the gap, lost my internet connection yesterday. Perfect timing.

 

The finance company are looking into getting the clamp removed, they insist the car can not be towed but are looking into the legal side of the baillffs actually having the clamp on the car as it belongs to them not me.

 

The object of the clamp is to prevent the vehicle being hidden or otherwise making it indisposed prior to it being removed for sale. As he cannot do this the clamp must be removed. You would be within your rights to charge the Bailiff and his Company and the Council any expenses reasonably incurred for travel ie car hire, taxi etc. That is why the Regulation 46 Complaint must go ahead. If and when removed take plenty of pictures and if there is at least 1 little scratch they will be responsible for having the damage repaired.

 

Plod, I have modified your letter and will be dropping into the council by hand today as I have a previous appointment about this very situation.

 

Kel, I have spoken with a man at the council who insists that although my wife is considered vunerable I am not. So all they will agree with that in mind is that the bailiff should walk away if my wife is home alone. If I am at home he has free reign wether she is in or not.

 

Load of cobblers, man from the Council needs retraining - he's correct in his assumption your wife is vulnerable, he is also correct saying you are not, what he does need to understand is that therefore the whole household is classed as vulnerable.

 

Need to know the following:

 

Do I have to pay the levy charge as it was placed on the vehicle that belongs to the finance company and not myself?

 

There is a £12 pound charge for a walking possession fee. I thought I had to agree to one of those and sign something? Have just found This at the bottom and on the rear of

"Notice of seizure of goods and inventory"

 

That can only be charged if you have signed the Form, otherwise he can go and jump

 

FORM OF WALKING POSSESSION AGREEMENT.

 

It has been filled in adated by the bailiff and he has left 2 gaps. One I assume for my signature, and the second for the amount of days yesterdays date before he can remove the goods.

 

Where does this leave me now?

 

Thanks again guys your help is much appriciated.

 

UKP.

 

PT

[UKPARANORMAL]

Now Im really ****ed off! Have got from my bed to find both locks cut off from my sheds and my bike missing!

 

Co-incidence?

 

I think not!

 

Police are now about to get involved!

[UKPARANORMAL]

Well that was a waste of time! All I get is a crime number! And oh we will check to see if any other properties have been broken into in your area then if they have we will inform CID!

Basically a F**k you sir your little problem isnt enough for us to worry about!

[UKPARANORMAL]

The reg 46 letter has been sent and I am also going to send the following my councillor as I believe that SBC have not been at all fair or sensible in there dealings with matter.

If you think any thing needs changing please let me know?

 

20 August 2009

 

Ref: Complaint Number 1

Account Number: *****************

 

 

Dear Councillor,

 

I understand that my Council Tax account is in serious arrears of £1,179.63 and has been passed onto a bailiff company Ross & Roberts which is attempting to collect this debt from my husband and me.

 

Mr R ****** whom is the Bailiff that has been given our account is acting on your behalf and as such, is a representative of Swindon Borough Council. Mr R ****** has refused to allow us to pay in instalments and is demanding that we pay the outstanding debt in full despite my explanation of our position. Unfortunately we do not have this amount available to us and it is ridiculous for anybody to demand said payment with no concession to our individual circumstances.

 

Mr R ***** was quite misrepresentative of his powers as a Bailiff to my husband in their conversation on the 18th August and implied that he could enter our home without our consent as he had a Court Order. Mr ****** has also placed a wheel clamp on my husbands vehicle in my drive and has refused so far to remove it even though he has been informed that the car is still the property of Black Horse Finance and as such he unable to remove it or raise levy on it.

Furthermore both Swindon Borough Council and the Bailiff firm, Ross & and Roberts, have been sent a letter from ourselves explaining that I have a long term illness and am, in our opinion, considered as vulnerable according to “The national Standards for Enforcement Agents” . The letter which was sent by both Royal Mail and e mail, (Please find a copy enclosed), asked for confirmation to be sent to us. We received such from the bailiff but nothing from Swindon Borough Council. However the Bailiff stated that as it was my name on the order and not my husbands that he could not enter into correspondence with them and that they would require written consent from me. The letter was sent again via e mail from my account and no reply has been sent

Fortunately I am fully aware of my rights in this matter and we were not duped into allowing this man into our property. I can not imagine what effect this would have on someone whom is ess knowledgable and even that a Council would condone such tactics. It is disgraceful to say the least.

 

I have telephoned your department on several separate occasions and have even visited your offices trying to discuss the situation and make an offer of payment in instalments that is sensible and sustainable. Also a realistic amount that we can offer that will not leave my husband and me in serious financial hardship and subsequently in a position where we would again be in arrears for the forth coming 2010 Council Tax bill. On one occasion when I called to speak to someone I was informed that the debt goes back through last year and there is some outstanding from 2005. I was told after asking several times that all the amount now owing had been placed in one account. When I asked about liability orders I was informed that none had been raised at all. An answer I found dubious as the Council can not get a bailiff involved until one has been raised! I now understand that are least 2 liability orders on this account. Can I suggest that you make sure all your operators know what they are talking about when dealing with matters of such a grave nature? We had even made an appointment for 19 August 2010 to see one of your representatives and had been given a letter stating as such. We were informed that if the bailiff turned up in the mean time to show him the letter and he would leave. He did show, we did show him the letter and he refused to leave. Either your staff need more training or this bailiff has once again ignored directions from yourselves.

 

On the several occasions that I have called to discuss this subject after the bailiffs visit, I have been told in quite a decisive manner that I have no alternative but to negotiate with the Bailiff and that you will not have any further dealings in this matter. Until, when we spoke with your front line team they finally agreed that they had received the letter, and only then did they start talking about a possible payment plan. I would like to commend the young lady we spoke to, Jenny for being patient and understanding of the situation and dealing with the matter with compassion. However when the matter was referred to your back office and to a manager I know only as Simon, he started back on the route of you will only deal the bailiff, and he refused to let any one in his team make a simple call to Black Horse to clear up the car issue. He also went on to inform me that in his opinion the vulnerability issue only applied if I was home alone, but that if my husband or Daughter, (who is 25 weeks pregnant), were at home that he could act as he saw fit. I find this completely deplorable and no doubt in contravention of the act as I suffer with just as much stress and upset regardless of who is at home. Surely it is in your best interest to accept payments so that the debt is recovered regardless of who takes them or how long it takes to remove the arrears. It should be noted that we are not at any point refusing to pay this debt to you but only asking for a fair payment period considering our circumstances.

I should also like to point out that when arrived for our appointment at the council office on 19 August, an appointment that we had made with the sole purpose of discussing a repayment plan, we were told that your representative had been informed by Simon that all she could do was take down a financial statement from us. Something we had done on the phone less than 24 hours previously when talking Jenny. I know that Simon had seen this as he wanted to dispute some of the items. Making our entire visit a waste of time.

 

It is within your power to recall the account from Ross & Roberts as you appointed them in the first place to act on your behalf. It is absurd that you continue to insist that I must only deal with a Bailiff who is uncompassionate and categorical in his manner towards us in his attempt to make money from the account. I ask that you allow us to deal with you directly as we will be making payments to you in future and not the Bailiff company. I have written a letter to the said Bailiffs informing them of our intention to pay you and a break down of any fees that have been applied to our account their end. This will give them only one option to return the account to as they have been unable to collect the amount owing.

 

I would like a break down of our overdue account which is being held on your system for 2005 onwards posted to me as soon as possible as it is my belief there are also serious irregularities that I need to confirm.

 

I know that we should have paid our Council Tax promptly and on time in the first place and with hindsight we would have made every effort to have done so to have avoided this nasty situation. However we are a struggling couple who have purchased their first home together just over two years ago and are currently fighting financially to keep it. My husband has faced threatened redundancy and also times of unemployment in this year where we have only been able to rely on my wage as an income. My wage alone barely covers our rent and food requirements which is our first priority as it is the roof over our heads, regardless of our best efforts we have fallen into arrears on our rent also at present although we have a plan in place with selves at this time which ahs nearly cleared the debt. As I was in full time employment my husband was not entitled to benefits of any kind that would have been a great help. We want to repay this debt as quickly as possible and would ask that you take this into reflection.

 

I look forward from hearing from in a timely manner.

 

Yours sincerely

[ploddertom]

As well as your Councillor I would be very tempted to send it to the Council Chief Executive marked as a Formal Complaint.

 

Incidentally can you not contact your Councillor more informally by either phone or email?

 

PT

[UKPARANORMAL]

I am going to send this via both snail and e mail and keep a copy for my self. I thought that was the preferred format in these cases.

I will include my mob no. on the mail to the councillor and have no doubt he will get in touch for a chat should he see fit.

Just re read that and it could be read as aggressive, its not meant to be, just having another one of those days!

 

UKP.

[UKPARANORMAL]

Just had the finance company on the phone and they now told the bailiffs to remove theclamp or they will start legal proceedings!

I dont expect that to happen until Monday But thats the first part battle won!

 

Thanks guys for your help, I would never had had the confidence to stand up these arrogant people without your advice!

Edited August 20, 2010 by UKPARANORMAL

[RaeUK]

Hi UKP, my goodness I turn my back for two minutes ...

Sincere apols, I haven't been on the bailiff forum much at all over the past few weeks due to a little downward blip in my health and builders turning up at 8am every day for three weeks.

Apols for the full inbox too. The old software used to let me know how many messages I had stored, the new 'improved' version seems to want to keep this info a secret...

Thoroughly enjoyed your letter to your councillor, good work.

As said by PT, it could also be used as a Formal Complaint though - to be honest - I'd be inclined to rejig it a bit for that purpose.

There is more than enough info in this thread for me to write a Formal Complaint for you. Due to the size of it it will be in MS Word format and pasted as a link. I will do this tomorrow for you [sunday] and have left myself a suitably sized note to that effect!

You've done really well so far - even though it may not seem so. Your wife and yourself have the moral highground and no amount of bluster and bluff from council or bailiff can take that from you.

Best wishes

Rae

Edited August 21, 2010 by RaeUK
typoo

[UKPARANORMAL]

Cheers Rae,

 

The letter has gone to my Councillor, the Cheif exec, and the general council bod thats been dealing with the matter.

 

Apparently the boss at the bailiff firm was quite polite and easy going when the finance company spoke with him. However the bailiff dealing with the case tried to bluster his way out of it.

 

When the guy first knocked on the door I asked him for his court appointed certificate and he managed to get through the whole thing without producing it. Is there a web site or some other way of finding out if he registered and with what court?

[hallowitch]

www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/CertificatedBailiffs/

 

Ministry of Justice Public Register of bailiffs on 020 3334 6355

 

If your search reveals that the bailiff is working for a different company it is important to be aware that statutory regulations laid down by Parliament state that if there are "any changes" to the certificate then the bailiff must “without delay” give notice to the Court and a new certificate will be issued to him reflecting the changes. This is vitally important because in almost all cases, the bailiff’s bond will be cancelled when he leaves his previous employer!!