unknown RWay CCJ for Cap1 card at old Address - already paid NCO!! **SET ASIDE**

[The GodMother]

Yes i know that but the debt was non existant as the OP has said the debt was paid of to NCO which he has a letter to confirm this. SO in theroy the debt does not exist.

 

See post 14.

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes i know that but the debt was non existant as the OP has said the debt was paid of to NCO which he has a letter to confirm this. SO in theroy the debt does not exist.

 

See post 14.

 

I think what happens is that the debt just becomes an amount on a spreadsheet. The DCA does not have a file on the history of the account and they don't look at the debtors credit file to check on its history either. They just churn out letters, until they get to the point, where they consider legal action.

 

If they have proceeded to court, without making these checks, then this is a bit shocking, which is why the OP really need to go to town and make a massive issue of this.

[Jossy]

Thanks for everybody's interest in this, and believe me, I don't just want my name cleared but these people punished for what they have done, if that is at all possible.

 

It was said in a reply earlier I should make a chronological list of everything that has happened regarding this case, so for the benefit of everybody on here, it goes as follows:

 

1. 20th March 2008 - CCJ issued against me for £859 at Northampton County Court by Robinson Way at my old address, where I haven't lived for just under 10 years (at this point i have no idea the CCJ has been issued).

 

2. January 2010 - I receive a letter from Robinson Way asking me to confirm if I lived at XXXXXX address (my previous address). Letter is worded in such a way that if I don't reply, they will assume that I did indeed live at that address. After starting a thread on this website with the title "Potential trouble from Robinson Way", am advised to ignore it.

 

3. January 2010 - Phone call out of the blue by somebody at Robinson Way saying I owe £859, and must pay immediately. I inform them I have only ever had 2 debts in my life and they have both long been paid up to 2 different DCA's (Cabot financial and NCO Europe). He "seems" to accept this and I never hear from them again.

 

4. 11th July 2010 - Random call from my bank inviting me to come in to upgrade my account, due to how I have managed it over the years. Ironic, I tell them as I have recently been made redundant and so no money is currently going in. She claims this won't matter and arranges for me to visit them on Thursday 15th.

 

5. 15th July 2010 - I visit my bank to upgrade my account, only to be told after 40 minutes of going through stuff that I have a CCJ against me. On returning home, I check my Credit report online with Credit Expert. There is no record of a CCJ, so after phoning them I am advised to add my previous address from nearly ten years ago and check again the next day when the records have updated.

 

6. 16th July 2010 - I check my credit report again, and there is a CCJ against me on my old address ( see paragraph 1). I phone Northampton County Court, only to be told that it will cost me £75 for the legal paper work to get it removed after explaining that the CCJ should not be there. Incidentally, the lady there says that the debt has been satisfied. By whom, I do not know as I have never had an account with Robinson Way, and would never, ever pay them a penny.

 

7. 17th July 2010 - I receive a letter from Horwich Farrelly, acting on behalf of Robinson Way telling me that I owe £264.13 and must pay immediately. They will accept a final payment of £174.32 as a final offer (how kind of them). The letter lists the court as Northampton, and the case number is identical to the one on my credit report for the March 08 CCJ (8XM02425 - the case which has apparently been settled, but not by me).

 

there it all is, step by step.

Incidentally, on my credit report under the CCJ details it reads the following

"If you have paid a judgment you should contact the court and make sure they are informed.

You may wish to request a Certificate of Satisfaction as proof of the change.

We will be told that the judgment is satisfied and we will update our records.

For further information please see the Report Guide."

 

Now I know that I didn't pay this debt because it never existed

(not to Robinson Way or the amount that they stated),

 

 

if the lady told me on friday that it has been satisfied,

then if I do what the above statement says then surely I can get this cleared from my credit report??

 

 

Not ideal as really I want it acknowledged that it should never have been there and as I have stated many times on this thread I want these people punished for what they have done.

I will be phoning the court tomorrow (Monday) so what do you guys think?

 

As always, thanks everybody for your help and input.

 

Jossy.

[The GodMother]

For 1 it does not cost you £75 for the legal paperwork to have this set aside that was a lie. the documents are widely available on line for you to see and fill in.

 

It WILL cost you £75 for this to be put in front of a judge and a judge to make a decision. The difference there is if you are on benefits then as result the fee will be waived once the appropriate forms are filled out and proof is made available for them to see.

 

I would write to Horwich family demanding proof of the CCJ and asking who the original creditor was Not as in robinson way but as in the real original credit, capital one, also make all the inquirys you can without saying to much like you have not lived there or that the debt was paid to another company.

[Jossy]

Well I don't know where to start.

 

I called Northampton County Court,

this time spoke to someone who seemed to know a bit more.

 

 

She did confirm,

as mentioned above,

that the forms to have the CCJ set aside are free

but it costs £75 to have them processed.

 

 

She also confrimed that Horwich Farrelly informed the court that the debt had been satisfied back in December 09.

 

 

She then gave me the correct number to call them on,

which is 0161 833 4418, NOT 633.

 

 

I double checked to make sure I hadn't mis-dialled,

but their letter definitely reads 0161 633 4418

- another indication of the kind of people I am dealing with.

 

After speaking to some young girl who was clearly out of her depth,

they passed me on to a man named Kevin Faulkner, who said he was a litigation officer.

 

He claimed the following:

 

That he was the man who spoke to me back in January

(if which is the case, then Horwich Farrelly and Robinson Way ARE the same company,

because the call i had in January was from Robinson Way - see my earlier post).

 

That Robinson Way have owned the Capital One debt since 2007.

That I had made payments to them in 2007,

but had then ceased in doing so, hence the CCJ in March 2008.

 

That although the court confirmed the debt was satisfied,

it had actually been put on "halt" in December 09

(this , I presume, was the period when they actually bothered to find out my real address - see my earlier post).

 

That they would not in any way set aside the CCJ, as I still owed them money.

That it was my responsibility to prove to them I didn't owe it, not the other way round.

 

After calming down,

I then spoke to NCO Europe again

(I know these poeple are no saints either,

but I actually never had a problem with them so maybe they could prove to be handy allies).

 

 

I still have their letter of confirmation,

but just wanted to make sure that they still have all my details in case they are needed.

 

 

They confirmed that not only has everything been paid in full,

but at no time did Capital One cease using them with my case, a

nd sell it to anybody else.

 

Ok folks,

here is where i am at.

 

 

Even if I bite the bullet and pay to have the CCJ set aside,

Robinson way still believe I owe them money

when I refuse to pay they will just lodge another CCJ against me.

 

 

Now I could CCA them,

but being as this is all about a debt that no longer exists,

I don't want them to believe that by CCA'ing them I am acknowledging that there is a debt to be paid.

 

Do i sue them?

Will i definitely get all costs back if i am successful

(and all the evidence suggests I will be)?

 

 

Or can they hide behind the fact that in the nature of their business they are entitled to pursue you and issue CCJ's until the defendant proves otherwise?

 

What if, in worse case scenario,

NCO Europe have been the ones who were lying and lost the legal right to pursue the debt 3 years ago and I have effectively paid the wrong company through no fault of my own? (I seriously doubt this is the case).

 

On top of all this,

I am trying to find a job.

Wonder if there is any vacancies in the debt collecting industry?!!

 

Over to you guys for you're help and inspiration.

[Seminole]

My head hurts as, I suspect, does yours.

 

When did you pay off the debt with NCO? Do you know if they had bought the debt or were acting as agents for Cap One?

 

As was suggested before, I think you should SARN Cap One. In that way you should be able to obtain a history of the debt and when it was sold on and to whom.

 

What's really bothering me is RW's assertion and acceptance that some of this "debt" has been paid. Given that you say you haven't made payments to them, this means that either it's an accounting mistake or that they've confused this account with someone elses.

[Jossy]

The guy at NCO Europe today said they were the "authorised agent" to collect the money.

 

Regarding SARN, what are the chances if I phone Capital One (I still have all my account information from them) that they will tell me over the phone?? I know I'm clutching for straws, but it would give me instant gratification if they knew nothing of Robinson Way.

[unclebulgaria67]

My advice is to speak to NCO Europe again. Ask them if they would send you an email, confirming the CapOne debt had been paid off and there was no debt left.

 

Then speak to HF/RW and advise them that you have an email from NCO Europe confirming full payment of this debt. See if you can send them the Email in order to resolve this matter.

 

If HF/RW are not very cooperative, then make an official complaint to them and then pass onto the FOS if necessary. HF/RW should look into the history of the account with CapOne/NCO Europe and if they have made a mistake, they should get the CCJ cleaned off yours/court records.

 

Hope this makes sense. This seems to be the easiest way to resolve.

[Jossy]

Well this now really does complicate things.

 

I just called Capital One on the off chance I could shed some light on the matter.

 

They have ionformed me they have no record of NCO Europe as the agent, and that the debt was sold to Robinson way in January 2007. Interestingly, he also said that the debt was now satisfied??????????????????????

 

When asked what happened between 2005 and 2007 (2005 was when I defaulted, and started paying NCO Europe), he said they had no information at all for that period.

 

So what on earth do I now say to NCO??

 

This is slowly driving me mad.

[unclebulgaria67]

Calm down and have a nice cup of tea with a biscuit.

 

The debt world is murkier than the dead sea. Debts get passed onto DCA's for them to chase, but they will pass on again to another. I suppose the way to describe this is 'sharing the work load'. It could be that CapOne don't use NCO Europe officially, but that another DCA involved them.

 

The main thing is that both NCO Europe and CapOne say the debt has been settled. You just need them both to confirm this in writing and then to forward onto HF/RW. Once HF/RW have this information, it is then up to them to check this and then to do what is necessary to clear this whole matter up.

[Jossy]

i have decided that tomorrow I will write to RW/HF and enclose a copy of the confirmation letter from NCO.

 

 

I will also request that after receipt of my letter

(which i will send recorded with a signature on arrival)

that they remove immediately the CCJ they have on me

cease all further communication,

inform them that they are being reported to the Office of Fair Trading,

Trading Standards and

the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

One question I have for you guys is,

legally,

how long do they have to remove the CCJ once they have proof the debt is paid?

 

 

I want to warn them that if it isn't removed within the correct time allowed then legal action against them will follow.

 

Any ideas? I want to make sure I get it right.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Seminole]

Something isn't right here and I think you have been slightly misled by Cap One. The debt would show as settled in their books because they have sold it to a third party (RW) and received a payment for it. After it has been sold they would have no interest in the debt and the organisation purchasing it would have no interest in reporting that it had been paid to them.

 

I think you should ask Cap One if they ever used an external debt collection agency to pursue the debt and if so who it was. You would get this information from a SARN but they seem quite forthcoming and you may be able to get this information over the phone.

 

Assuming that noone else was asked to chase the debt by Cap One, I would then ask NCO who commissioned them to chase the debt and when. I can see a couple of possibilities here. Firstly, Cap One did it and their admin records have become confused. Secondly, RW did and and ditto re the records. Third, someone else did it but I think you need to find this out.

 

I think you should hold fire on the letter to RW for a moment. They can't simply remove the CCJ. Only a court can do that by setting it aside. This can be a very simple process where both parties are in agreement but it doesn't sound as if that's the case here.

 

As I said before I think this is a huge administrative error. The fact that the court is showing the debt as satisfied and even RW seem to be admitting that that it's part settled says to me that there's been a mix up between two accounts. Getting answers to the two points mentioned above will, I think, throw a lot more light on what's happened.

[2Grumpy]

You could invite RW to get the set-aside for you since they claimed an amount that they were not entitled to, using an abuse of process (old address) to achieve it

[Jossy]

I've already asked Robinson Way to get the court to have it set aside,

based on the fact that I have long since paid the debt and they got the CCJ by using an address i haven't lived at for years.

 

 

They refused because in their opinion the debt isn't paid as I owe them,

and they are legally allowed to issue a CCJ against "last known address".

 

After reading everybody's much valued advice,

I think I will Sarn Capital One.

 

 

Maybe this will explain the black hole between 2005 - 2007 (the guy on the phone yesterday said there is no data for this time period).

 

Would it also be worth sending a SARN to Robinson Way?

They claimed yesterday that I had actually made payments to them back in 2007?

Surely then this would show up,

and being as I know I have never paid them a penny,

could prove if they have indeed mixed up 2 seperate accounts?

 

What do you think guys? Worth it?

[The GodMother]

Also maybe a SAR to NCO aswell just to see what is going on.

 

Either NCO or RW/HF have/are attempting to gain money buy deception which is fraud and a case against them can be brought buy you.

[Jossy]

Well I have posted the SAR's to both Capital One and Robinson Way today.

Think I'll hold on for now regarding sending one to NCO.

 

 

At the moment they appear to be on my side,

so I'll wait to see what I learn from the first two,

although I am convinced that Robinson Way will not comply with the SAR even though they are legally bound to.

 

 

The thing I most want to find out is how and when they received some payments allegedly from me nearly 2 years ago, as I know I have paid them nothing.

 

When I hear any news, I'll update on here.

[Bazooka Boo]

Keep a diary of events and a list of all your costs, time, stationary etc, so you can issue robbersway with a small claim for costs.

[Jossy]

I certainly will.

[Jossy]

Okay just checked the Royal Mail website to track both letters, and they were received at 9:45 and 11:10am. So now the clock is ticking, 40 days being 30th August.

 

I wonder who will be the first to try and get out of complying?

[The GodMother]

No it wont as its a bank holiday its the 31st August.

[Halibutt]

No it wont as its a bank holiday its the 31st August.

 

That's great proof that it's a good idea to post a chronological chain of events in our posts.

 

Someone with great attention to detail will always spot something we've missed.

 

Nice one GodMother

[The GodMother]

I only noticed that it was a bank holiday as the bank told me.

[diddydicky]

i doubt that capital one will be obliged to provide a response to a SAR if you no longer have dealings with them

 

It seems to me that since the original company is now ex tinct - you are not in fact going to "make them pay" and should forget this as a goal

 

To get the matter set aside is going to cost you £75 and you will not get this back (IMO) since the other party is no longer a legal entity

 

the claimant in a ccj cannot be assigned/sold to a third party as far as i am aware without the approval of the court therefore i assume it has not been assigned/sold since this is as rare as hens teeth

 

if you want it off your file before it falls off after 6 years then pay the £75 otherwise leave things until someone else tries to sue you and then demand proof of ownership of the debt.

 

it is my opinion that the new company are trying to cash in on a debt which is not theirs and was NOT transferred over to them from the old company legally - and even if it was- it is quite clear from the conversations that they will not be able to provide the documentation to prove it and it would have had to have been transferred BEFORE the CCJ was granted

 

if you go on the companies house website you should be able to get the details of the now defunct company to compare them with the new one so that you are able to show the court that the two companies are not one in the same.

[seniorservice]

i doubt that capital one will be obliged to provide a response to a SAR if you no longer have dealings with them

 

It seems to me that since the original company is now ex tinct - you are not in fact going to "make them pay" and should forget this as a goal

 

To get the matter set aside is going to cost you £75 and you will not get this back (IMO) since the other party is no longer a legal entity

 

the claimant in a ccj cannot be assigned/sold to a third party as far as i am aware without the approval of the court therefore i assume it has not been assigned/sold since this is as rare as hens teeth

 

if you want it off your file before it falls off after 6 years then pay the £75 otherwise leave things until someone else tries to sue you and then demand proof of ownership of the debt.

 

it is my opinion that the new company are trying to cash in on a debt which is not theirs and was NOT transferred over to them from the old company legally - and even if it was- it is quite clear from the conversations that they will not be able to provide the documentation to prove it and it would have had to have been transferred BEFORE the CCJ was granted

 

if you go on the companies house website you should be able to get the details of the now defunct company to compare them with the new one so that you are able to show the court that the two companies are not one in the same.

 

Wise words

[Jossy]

After reading up on it,

A subject Access Request,

under the data protection act,

enables an individual to access any information that any organisation holds on them,

regardless of whether you still have dealings with that particular place.

 

 

Therefore, it is irrelevant that I no longer have an account with Capital One

- they are legally bound to comply with my request as they still hold information about me.

 

Regarding "making them pay",

on their website it states the following

"As this is simply a change of name no further novations of contracts are required. All licences, insurances, registrations, compliance certifications and memberships for the company remain in place".

 

 

I am definitely holding them responsible for what the "old" version of the company started.

this is a no-brainer being as it is this "new" version of the company that are now claiming I owe THEM money.

I cannot just pay the £75 to get the CCJ set aside.

 

 

As i mentioned in an earlier post,

once I have done that and still refuse to pay what Robinson Way are claiming I owe them,

they will issue another CCJ with the court and we'll just keep going round in circles.

 

 

I hope to find with the 2 SAR requests who Capital One sold the debt to originally,

and to disprove with Robinson Way that they received payments from me back in 2007.

 

 

They claimed they have proof that I did (and I know that I did not),

I will be able to see if they have mixed up an account with somebody else.

 

Amazingly,

I received a letter from them this morning acknowledging recepit of my letter and that they will comply within the 40 days.

 

 

Unamazingly, they dated the letter 22nd July 2007!