Debt payment tactics ! Creditors refusing my offers

[Bazooka Boo]

Moorsoft and all of their pre-school divisions are the joke of the century, they have zero intention of putting any of their crayoning before a court so don't worry about that!

The account should be in dispute if they have failed to respond to your legal request for the CCA, I take it they have misappropriated the £1 fee for the request against the alleged debt?

If so send them a letter before action giving them a further 14 days in which to supply the CCA or return the £1 statutory fee, failing to do so WILL result in further action including but not limited to reporting them to the OFT&TS and seeking legal advice with a view to taking legal action against them.

[omoeko]

I have just received a letter from moorcroft debt recovery limited, they are silly by sending a letter with some court costs statement i.e

 

current balance: £xxx

solicitors costs: £xxx

court fees for issue of claim form: £xxx

solicitors costs for entering judgement by default : £xxx

 

The problem now is that I have to trace the debt to try and understand which aspect it is, i.e credit card, loan etc as the credit card is not a legitimate CCA but the loan is.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Just another one of their typically silly letters without much tangibility. Was it written in crayon by any chance as it may as well be.

[cucumber]

make as many complaints as you can, regarding non-compliance of cca(its supposed to be 40 days max i think), prepare income and expenditure, and complain about poor communication to their complaints department. it will buy u some time if nothing else. also, they cant make u pay money u dont have. if they take you to court, all the court will do is look at your income and expenditure and make you pay ur monthly disposable income. point this out to them, enclose a copy of I+e, and make your suggestion. at least that way you can say you've made every efort to be reasonable.

this is just my thoughts, btw, and please dont hesitate to correct me if im wrong, i am pretty new to all this!!

[Bazooka Boo]

I have just received a letter from moorcroft debt recovery limited, they are silly by sending a letter with some court costs statement i.e

current balance: £xxx

solicitors costs: £xxx

court fees for issue of claim form: £xxx

solicitors costs for entering judgement by default : £xxx

The problem now is that I have to trace the debt to try and understand which aspect it is, i.e credit card, loan etc as the credit card is not a legitimate CCA but the loan is.

 

Well if it as clear as mud to you then how the hell are you or anyone else supposed to understand it??#

 

There is absolutely NOTHING you need do, there is nothing to say that you have to prove that you even owe any debt least of all this one!

[omoeko]

I just got a letter from BLS collections, its regarding a lloyds credit card where there has been loads of charges loaded onto the account etc, they said they are about to start legal proceedings unless i call them in the next 14 days, and that they have noticed that i do not want to pay they debt.

 

They also state that if they secure legal actions, there will be a £290 charge on the account, but all these can be resolved if we reach a mutual agreement, so i am trying to test thier resolve by making a F&F offer.

 

Any thoughts ?

[omoeko]

Any thoughts anyone

[Bazooka Boo]

You need to be claiming back these charges, which can be used to offset and reduce the total balance they say is owed.

Have you sent a CCA request?

[omoeko]

I have sent CCA, from what I recall they sent me a bunch of T&C's as a CCA, which was pointed out to them. Would it be a good idea to make an offer of settlement and see what they had come back with ?

[Bazooka Boo]

Can you scan and post up what they sent you?

Was there any agreement in there at all? If your confident that it doens't comply with the CCA at all, then you should send them the 'Failed' letter and pay them nothing.

What did they say to your letter that they hadn't supplied the correct docs?

[omoeko]

I just got another letter today from Moorcroft regarding HSBC loan, the title states discount offer and I should call to finalise, obviously I will not call them, I will make everything in writing. I want to know whether its wise to send them a budget sheet for full and final offers, it shows total amount available and how the money has been shared to all creditors on a pro rata basis. Is it also wise to have creditor name on it and amount?

[sillygirl1]

Don't do a fully itemised I&E, they just need a basic one, only a court can order a fully itemised I&E. If you send one they will misuse the information on it and pressurise you even more.

[Bazooka Boo]

You need to do some research as to exactly what your F&F offer should state and how it is done correctly to avoid any further issues.

For a start, you need to show how many creditors there are, and how much you have to offer to each one, as the creditor who is owed the most, will get the biggest chunk of the offer. Have a look on

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=24_full_and_final_settlement_offers

http://www.voltimum.co.uk/news/2312/cm/the-law----full-and-final-settlement-.html

 

P.S. If they are offering you a discount then you have to ask yourself WHY?? Is it because they know they haven't got anything enforceable?

[omoeko]

Hi All,

 

I have just received the following letters

 

Debt managers ltd: This is regarding credit card debt owed to lloyds TSB, they do have an enforceable agreement but I cannot afford what they are asking me to pay, they are not accepting FF either. I dont want to be on a DMP for 10 yrs. they are saying settlement is required now, court action may be taken and costs added.

 

Credit security ltd: This is regarding a current account with oustanding balance, again a 25% settlement was rejected. I cannot afford to be on a long DMP as i am approaching retirement.

 

Debt managers: A court action letter stating that they are prepared to pass account to solicitors unless i get in touch within 7 days/pay in full etc.

[Bazooka Boo]

DL Ltd cannot dictate to you what they want as payment, so don't let them, just tell them that you will only pay X amount per month, like it or lump it, then start paying them what you said you could, a Judge would not look too kindly on them when you are already paying what you can realistically afford.

 

The same goes for CSL.

[omoeko]

I have just received a letter from Metropolitan which is one of the DCA for HSBC, they have offered 50% discount for a credit card debt without proper agreement, I think i offered 20% as full and final.

Also, I got a letter from Parkgate investigation bureau saying my case which is with Lloyds will be passed on to them, I offered them a F&F but they insisted that they had only offer 25% discount.

Letter from call serve as well advising on same debt.

Other creditors have indicated that they will not accept F&F offers, at same time I cannot setup a DCA with them as the funding for the F&F offers is from family members, they will not fund a DCA.

[brokebutnotbeatn]

Omoeko. It is up to you what to accept and how much hard ball to play. Perhaps re-iterate your F&F and give them 5 working days to respond then move onto your next creditor. Whatever you do as BB said make sure you do it all in writing and get the wording right. DCA's are notorious for agreeing F&Fs then selling the remainder onto another DCA and it starts all over again!

[omoeko]

I had a letter from one of HSBC's DCA's, they are now offering 50% discount because they know they don't have a CCA. Can I reduce this to 20% as I think thats what I originally offered. Also the other creditors i.e Lloyds they rejected my f&f offer and saying they would be taking the matter to court.

[Bazooka Boo]

If they have already admitted they do not have the correct document, then why offer them 20%? Start at 1% or nothing!

 

Lloyds are to foolish for words, I'm about to give them both barrels this PM! If you made the offer in writing and they declined, that is good evidence to show the Judge you are willing to pay back what you can afford, they have declined your F&F, so now you should make them an offer of a monthly/weekly payment that YOU can realistically & comfortably afford, NOT what they dictate!

[omoeko]

If they have already admitted they do not have the correct document, then why offer them 20%? Start at 1% or nothing!

 

Lloyds are to foolish for words, I'm about to give them both barrels this PM! If you made the offer in writing and they declined, that is good evidence to show the Judge you are willing to pay back what you can afford, they have declined your F&F, so now you should make them an offer of a monthly/weekly payment that YOU can realistically & comfortably

 

afford, NOT what they dictate!

 

 

The situation is that they didn't accept that they don't have the right documents, I pointed it out to them over the course of the last 18 months, and out of nowhere 50% discount come in. On this basis I believe they admit to not having the right documents even though it's not in writing.

 

As per lloyds, I'm 61 at the moment and the thought of having a debt hanging over my head is mind blowing, that's the reason for the f&f to try and settle, if I offer monthly it means I am still battling it till over 75.

 

That's the reason why family have agreed to fund f&f but not monthly payments.

 

Thanks

[Bazooka Boo]

I see, I see. Well there is not a great deal you can do if they won't accept your F&F offer.

 

So making a much reduced payment, even the token monthly £1 payment might just have the effect that they are then willing to listen to your F&F offer, and hopefully accept it.

[omoeko]

I just had some few letters in but dont quite know what to do.

 

Got a letter from SRJ debt with a letter headed paper from TDX group, its titled settlement referral form. it states the total amount owed and also my offer of settlement as well.

Who are TDX group and what do they do ?

Do I have to fill in the form which looks like an income/expenditure form.

[Bazooka Boo]

NO! under no circumstances do you need to fill in any I&E form, this is a prolific abuse of power DCA's seem to assume they can use.

No-one can ask for, or even have sight of your I&E apart from a Judge, these people are legally qualified and trained to view such documents and make a valid legal decision on it. DCA's are pathetic puerile outfits who punch well above their weight and think they somehow have some sort of foregone conclusion to request information they are not legally obliged to, nor could they ever begin to understand!

 

SRJ are a hilarious outfit, they have one of my alleged debts, although I have heard zero off therm for the last two months after being told what dates I am available for court.

 

Unless you have been informed by the OC, then any other lowlife that seeps out of the woodwork demanding money can be ignored.

[brokebutnotbeatn]

I haven't read all the thread but can see you are getting advice from Boo so you are in good hands! For my two pennies worth I would rewrite to all your creditors again saying you can only aford £1/month BUT your friends and family have rallied around and agreed a lump sum of x for you to divide amongst your creditors for F&F (insert table showing equitable split). Advise this is a one off offer on their part and will only work if all accept your F&F. You are disappointed with the response received and give then a further 30 days to write and confirm acceptance otherwise the offer will no longer be available. Meanwhile set up a SO for £1 and make sure you continue to pay it. Use the F&F offer letter as your text to outline the F&F conditions (in the library) and don't pay anyone until you have it in writing. Then sit tight (and firm).

[mrman101]

Hi there,

 

Think I may be a bit un popular here, but here we go.

 

I think you are losing sight of your objective. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that your objective is to try and get debt free for 7K?

 

As far as F&Fs go, its probably best that you understand how the process works before you try and to get the best deal possible.

 

With the best will in the world, a lot of people who seem to be offering advise seem to be doing more from a point of "hating debt companies" rather than from an objective point of view.

 

First of all you need to understand that from A DRA's point of view, you are a statistic. There are two types of statistics, a paying statistic and a non paying statistic. Most of the larger DRA's have so many "statistics" flowing through their doors it would be impossible to deal with even half of them. So they work on the principle that it is better to focus on the paying statistic than the non paying. All this talk of debts being sold on, to DRA after DRA isnt normally the case. Most DRAs can work on a commision basis typically of 30% or more without purchasing a debt, i.e no outlay. Generally most DRAs have a rule of thumb, if you send a dispute letter or make a dispute over the phone, that cannot be solved in roughly 30 seconds, they will put it on hold and wait for the original creditor to take the debt back. They have no interest in it because your not paying. They do not want to be dealing with disputes or paperwork, they want to be taking payments. All this talk of DRAs intentionally harrassing people etc, in all honesty is ludicrous. How does harassing people earn them money? People on this forum, saying send this complaint letter, send this template letter, wind them up, do this and do that, in my oppinion are just wasting peoples time. It seems to me, that a lot of people on forums such as this, are people that are obviously in debt, and have oppinions based on research they have done, normally posted by other people in debt who have done the same. You just end up with a lot of people who have fed off each others information, very few of which actually have any idea of what really happens, just have views based on oppinions of others. With the exception of purchased debt by a DRA, who is chasing a debt it itself owns (very few and far between) If your not paying they do not want to be dealing with you, it doesnt matter if you owe £10 or £100000, if you are not paying, then you are of no interest to them. Any offer you make to them in writing will generally be accepted, your are then a paying statistic. They dont want to harass you to try and make you pay more, in the time they have done that, they could have obtained 100 paying statistics. If they send a letter to the wrong address, I find it hilarious people say they are sending it to everybody with the same name and things like that. Just send it back Not known at this address, then they are a non paying statistic, so not interested, even though I am not convinced the postman delivers them all back, but there you go.

 

It amazes me that people in debt pay debt managment companies (I have heard of in excess of £250 in some cases) to basically write a simple letter to DRA's with an offer. People would be out of debt a lot quicker if they just paid the extra money towards commitments. But notice I haven't said it was wrong. Just because I dont agree with something, I am not suggesting that people complain day and night to complain about DMC's taking advantage of people in vulnerable positions. I think they do what they promise, take away (or delay maybe) the stress.

 

Sorry I do like to ramble, but please to not try to convince either me or yourselves that I am wrong.

 

Any way your objective.

 

Look at it from this point of view if somebody owed you £10k and you said I will pay you £1k, what would your first question be?

 

Why?

 

Now you have made offers to DRAs in settlement, but I think that you are using a slightly incorrect approach. people have advised you not to compile income and spending details, because you dont have to. Now this is correct. But your objective is you want to get into the paying statistic for as little as possible. Now working on the basis that the DRAs are working on behalf of the creditors (or debt purchasers in some cases, but the principle is the same because they dont own the debt). They do not want to dealing with you if your not paying, you are all working on the theory that they have some sort of say in the amount that you will be paying. They have a percentage they are allowed to go down to and cannot go lower without the debt owners say so, they can however go to them and put any offer you have made to them. Please do not be under the misconception that they dont want to accept lower, because they will earn a percentage of WHATEVER is paid. They do not want to be dealing with this, and are only doing so due to guidelines and a duty of agreement to their employers. If you make an offer to them once put to their employers, they will ask the same question. "why?"

 

How does this help you? Well due to the amount of people in debt, generally OCs are offering better F&Fs than seen before. So if you can give them half a reason as to why they should accept it, then 9 times out of 10 they will. Somebody needs to tick all the boxes, and you not giving them a reason isnt doing so. You need to stop looking at this like real money and start looking at it as numbers (because thats how they are).

 

All this sending CCas and complaining about this etc. Not in your objective.

 

You yourself have confirmed you owe the money, I dont know you, but you have gone to the effort to say that you want to clear your debt, so I can only assume that you are at least vaguley morally correct. With the exception of PPi claims, I am convinced that people trying to get out of paying debts on "technicalities" etc, has a lot to say for the state of the economy, and current banking problems, but there you go. Just an oppinion I dont like this Blame Claim, Blame Complain society that we live in.

 

No matter what people have said to you the first things I would say are

 

a)You are going to find it very difficult to clear £30k with £7k

 

b)None are going to accept silly offers without Income and expenditure (or as we have discussed a reason to tick a box)

 

What I would do (please note this is not advice it is an oppinion based on years of experience, I am not suggesting that you do this, or anyone does)

 

a)Write an income and expenditure (now without lying, include everything not over exhaggerate, maybe over emphasise, for example the highest amount you would pay for phone bill etc maybe take up smoking?)

 

b)A lits of creditors (Once they can see what they are stacked up against, are they likeley to think that is more trouble than its worth?)

 

c)Throw a dispute in the mix (I wouldnt make something up, but I am pretty sure I could find something to dispute interest charges etc. Bearing in mind the longer it would take them to deal with it the better, as will potentially offer more of a discount)

 

d)Look to the future (Maybe state to them that I had a certain amount due to family generosity, in order to get debt free, due to low income, and little out of caps earnings to pay to creditors may have to look towards bankruptcy (you will be amazed how they may come down when they are looking at getting nothing)

 

You need to convince whoever is dealing with the request that it is in their interest to accept what your offering, sending a letter saying I am offering this, take it or leave it sort of thing, is not going to fulfil your objective. As I can see from advise you have followed, where has it got you? from what I can see, you are exactly where you started, or in fact worse off, because you have spent time writing letters, posts, and more than likely getting stressed, and maybe even worrying about it. At the end of the day, the people you are dealing with are in fact people, with real emotions etc (not like people seem to post, saying they are out to get everybody etc, just real people doing a job like you are) Catch the right person on the right day with the right offer, and your in. But its not just luck, as with everything, if you approach in the right way, you are more likely to get the right result, you ned to tick the boxes.

 

Please excuse spelling etc and length lol, its late and I felt like I wanted to say something, without giving up too much about the industry. I know people are going to disagree with somethings I have said, but I have put my points across politely, so I am sure you will do the same.

 

Have a good one