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    • I have looked at the car park and it is quite clearly marked that it is  pay to park  and advising that there are cameras installed so kind of difficult to dispute that. On the other hand it doesn't appear to state at the entrance what the charge is for breaching their rules. However they do have a load of writing in the two notices under the entrance sign which it would help if you could photograph legible copies of them. Also legible photos of the signs inside the car park as well as legible photos of the payment signs. I say legible because the wording of their signs is very important as to whether they have formed a contract with motorists. For example the entrance sign itself doe not offer a contract because it states the T&Cs are inside the car park. But the the two signs below may change that situation which is why we would like to see them. I have looked at their Notice to Keeper which is pretty close to what it should say apart from one item. Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 Section 9 [2]a] the PCN should specify the period of parking. It doesn't. It does show the ANPR times but that includes driving from the entrance to the parking spot and then from the parking place to the exit. I know that this is a small car park but the Act is quite clear that the parking period must be specified. That failure means that the keeper is no longer responsible for the charge, only the driver is now liable to pay. Should this ever go to Court , Judges do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person so ECP will have their work cut out deciding who was driving. As long as they do not know, it will be difficult for them to win in Court which is one reason why we advise not to appeal since the appeal can lead to them finding out at times that the driver  and the keeper were the same person. You will get loads of threats from ECP and their sixth rate debt collectors and solicitors. They will also keep quoting ever higher amounts owed. Do not worry, the maximum. they can charge is the amount on the sign. Anything over that is unlawful. You can safely ignore the drivel from the Drips but come back to us should you receive a Letter of Claim. That will be the Snotty letter time.
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    • Yes, it was, but in practice we've found time after time that judges will not rule against PPCs solely on the lack of PP.  They should - but they don't.  We include illegal signage in WSs, but more as a tactic to show the PPC up as spvis rather than in the hope that the judge will act on that one point alone. But sue them for what?  They haven't really done much apart from sending you stupid letters. Breach of GDPR?  It could be argued they knew you had Supremacy of Contact but it's a a long shot. Trespass to your vehicle?  I know someone on the Parking Prankster blog did that but it's one case out of thousands. Surely best to defy them and put the onus on them to sue you.  Make them carry the risk.  And if they finally do - smash them. If you want, I suppose you could have a laugh at the MA's expense.  Tell them about the criminality they have endorsed and give them 24 hours to have your tickets cancelled and have the signs removed - otherwise you will contact the council to start enforcement for breach of planning permission.
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Wescot/Sainsburys


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Another letter today from them saying that it is being passed to their client

to ask them for their next step as to what to do

(I held off sending the CCA letter) and

 

this is what had arrived today.

 

Says I have 14 days to ring them...

..to arrange a payment plan with them

and the letter they have sent will be used against me?

 

next step advice please?

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I followed advice from above post and didn't post it as I had done so in the past

and received nothing so felt like I was getting no where fast.

 

Shall I send the CCA letter?

 

They have already sent the signed agreement (they claim they have sent me everything they need to supply me with)

 

Above posts advised after seeing the agreement that it hadn't been fulfilled

so I send the CCA and received the same signed agreement as shown then what?

round in the same circle?

Edited by tinyones
forgot to add points
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Sorry long thread. If you have sent whoever is dealing with it now a cca request and they haven't complied or the agreement is improperly executed.all you need to do is send them a letter stating that.

 

So either

Further to my letter dated xxxxxx requesting documentation under s78 cca the documents you sent me do not fulfil that request and the agreement is unenforceable under s78(6) or the documents you sent me are not a properly executed agreement and therefore fails under s127(3)

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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But I will have to send the CCA to receive the same 'signed agreement' to then be able to send them the above

or can I just send that letter now?

 

I held off actually posting the CCA (CCA sent in past were to previous DCA)

who also went round in circles then passed it on.

 

I have only posted the letter template to prove the debt as I hadn't heard of these people

and the original letter didn't state any accounts etc

just that they were trying to collect the debt.

 

The reply to that letter was the signed agreement.

 

So just wondering do I have to have asked for the CCA before I can write the non compliance? TIA

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if you have not sent whomever is NOW chasing you a CCA request

 

do it

it wont hurt for the sake of £1 PO.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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This is a long thread so can you just summarise the situation for us please.

 

When was the account first opened ?

What is the balance outstanding ?

When was the last payment made to the account ?

 

Are there any charges on the account ?

 

Are Wescotts the new owner of the account or are they just acting on behalf of Sainsbury?

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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they still only have 12+2 working days to reply.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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they still only have 12+2 working days to reply.

 

dx

 

Yes indeed but we all know many take longer, some an awful lot longer and there is no penalty for being late (apart from not being able to enforce until they do)

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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or demand payment......

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Going around in circles. As I had already received the agreement as in previous post I thought they would have sent that again or maybe they are thinking the client is sending something else. Shall I just wait and see what is sent next

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Just wait and see what comes. You are allowed to send more than one CCA request.

I have to say that when I get contacted by a new DCA I just send them a letter telling them that the last DCA?OC are in default of my CCA request and they go away and look for it.

 

Dx

I believe that McGuffick v RBS says that enforcement does not include demanding payment so therefore even if in default of a S77-79 request they can still demand

 

All you have to do is say go away this is unenforceable under S77(4) or S78(6) depending on what the agreement is

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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  • 9 months later...

Can someone please advise next step. I have heard nothing since I last posted until this morning I received the same photocopied copy of my agreement which I have previously scanned on here for people to look at and also a big pile of copied statements of my account since opening and what I assume is a copy of the terms and conditions. How do I reply to this and why has it taken 10 months to reply? The letter is from Arrow global

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This is a long thread so can you just summarise the situation for us please.

 

When was the account first opened ?

What is the balance outstanding ?

When was the last payment made to the account ?

 

Are there any charges on the account ?

 

Are Wescotts the new owner of the account or are they just acting on behalf of Sainsbury?

 

Can someone please advise next step. I have heard nothing since I last posted until this morning I received the same photocopied copy of my agreement which I have previously scanned on here for people to look at and also a big pile of copied statements of my account since opening and what I assume is a copy of the terms and conditions. How do I reply to this and why has it taken 10 months to reply? The letter is from Arrow global

 

 

It's a long thread and it's been a long time, I think you should answer the questions set by citizen in the post quoted above ?

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as in post #85 with no t&cs, just the app form and statements?

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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conniff thanks for your reply

 

 

this dates back to 2003

balance is just under 5k and

last payment 2/09

 

 

Until today I received a letter from Arrow Global which has

 

 

1)Copy of agreement (same copy as I attached previously on this thread that another team/member helped me upload

so not sure where that actually shows up but people had said they could see it (sorry to sound so dumb)

 

 

2) a copy of terms and conditions which are 7 pages long

no signature on

where it asks did I want cover on card or not

and also a whole pile of the originators statements it says which are dated till 09 too.

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Theoldrouge Thanks for your reply yes same as what is in #85 with the addition of the pile of statements and terms and conditions that I wouldn't know if they were them or not last page of t&c has a date t53r 01/10/08 I just don't know what to respond with now as I had nothing for so long and it had been passed on

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can you please repost the ag with all the t&cs you were sent (not the statements for now)

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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no payment or acknowledgement since 02/09?

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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Sorry what is AG? I will try and scan and send onto here (if I can work out how to do it)

and no the last payment on the statements goes back to 02/09 and I have since just had letters from various Debt agencies since (I couldn't afford to pay when husband left and I had the kids)

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ag , agreement , so nearing statute barred then

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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