RyanAir DENIED Boarding due to luggage size and lack of means to pay for it

[francholi]

Hi everybody , sorry for the long question, English is not

my language so please forgive my mistakes and I hope you get

the idea...

 

I have a question regarding the denial of boarding.

My girlfriend just got stuck in the Valencia (Spain) Airport coming to London because her luggage didn't fit in the measurement case that they use, and when they asked her for 35 Euros of extra charge, they didn't accept the 20 sterling and 15 euros that she had on her pockets, and their credit card reader wasn't working (she have enough money in it), so they didn't allow her to board by any mean :(

 

It was late, and she wasn't able to get in time to an ATM and get the so valuable euros...(no, they didn't hear about the recent euro problems...)

 

This is the short story, in the long one, they treated her really bad, shouted at her, and at the end, when the flight was closed, came a spanish guy from the ryan air crew, took the luggage, and fitted in the measurement case with a bit of effort, and looked at his partners asking why they didn't allow her to board!!.

 

So, considering only the problem of not being able to pay, MY QUESTION IS if she is obliged to pay in cash, and in the local currency or is their fault for not having the means to allow her to pay. By the way, on the airplane you can pay all the stuff with sterlings, or with credit card...so ?

 

No she will try to call (on sunday) to ryan-air (spain and uk) to get a new flight for tomorrow or monday.

 

Any help on what regulations or laws apply in this situation, and how to build a complain (or not) will be appreciated.

 

thanks

[BankFodder]

I'm not at all sure on the issue of trying to pay in sterling but they certainly had a duty to make sure that their credit card machine was working.

 

I think that they had a contractual duty to facilitate payment of the credit card.

 

I would suggest writing in strong terms to Ryanair here and then beginning a county court claim if they have not reimbursed all of her losses within 7 days

[wonkeydonkey]

If the card machine isn't working where's the manual back up?

 

WD

[fluffy_bunny]

You can pay £35 or 35euro as stated on their website (Ialso think it has to be cash).

 

The issue may have been that she wanted to pay in mixed notes.

 

Have you sent a complaint to Ryanair?

[perplexity]

One is reluctant to say so, but I doubt that a complaint like this will meet with a great deal of sympathy.

 

It is irresponsible to start with, to travel internationally without a sufficient float of ready cash in the pocket to cover emergencies. 50 pounds or Euros is a sensible minimum and it is not as if the passenger was taken by surprise, anyway. The rules for the budget airlines are fairly well known, or should be.

 

None the less, as a last resort, why not dump the luggage or a part of it instead of forfeiting the opportunity to fly? The travel bag must have been stuffed with something especially valuable, to be so keen to keep it all, or was there more to the story than that? I am wondering if it suited a purpose of some sort to induce a misfortune.

 

There are good ways and bad ways to seek attention.

 

[honeybee13]

Interesting point, perplexity.

 

Something just occurred to me. My OH regularly flies with Ryanair, unfortunately, so we know what they're like.

 

But even the smallest airports he goes to, in France, anyway, has a cash point and Valencia is quiet a big place, isn't it? I agree that Ryanair should make it easier to pay, but am saying that cash could well have been available, now I think of it.

 

HB

[perplexity]

One is indeed at a loss here to see from what would arise "a contractual duty to facilitate payment of the credit card".

 

According to my understanding, the relevant contractual duty is the duty of the passenger to arrive at the terminal with hand luggage appropriate to the airline's terms and conditions with regard to the size and weight of it.

 

It is perverse to pretend that the airline is obliged to expect a passenger to breach the contract, let alone a duty to provide for the possibility. If a passenger happens to arrive at the last minute there would not be the time to register the extra luggage, anyway. When the hand luggage is eventually checked the rest of it should already be on its way to the aircraft, which is to suggest that instead of complaining, the petulant child should rather be grateful that the airline was willing at all to accommodate, notwithstanding the possibility that the departure of the flight may then be delayed.

 

It is important, above all else, to understand that if an object is too large or heavy it would not and should not be allowed as hand luggage anyway, because of safety considerations. It is not just for the fun of it, that they make the rule.

 

[fluffy_bunny]

With online check in now available from Ryanair they also only check the luggage fits in the 'gauge' at the gate when you are about to board the plane so it makes sense that they cannot accept card payments there.

 

IMO the onus is on the traveller to ensure their luggage is the right size (I took a tape measure when buying my case as I travel with Ryanair a lot)

[Bookworm]

According to my understanding

nail, hit. head. You obviously DON'T understand.

 

It is perfectly allowed to carry extra luggage and to pay for it when arriving at the airport, for whatever reason. There is nothing to stop you arriving with an extra suitcase, having decided that you can't travel without your favourite teddybear after all, but you must be willing to pay the extra charge for it. All straightforward. At that point, the airline, having advertised that you can indeed do so, and that they take all kind of payment methods as listed on their website, their failure to provide such is quite obviously their fault.

 

Your last paragraph is irrelevant, she didn't refuse to have it put in the hold when it turned out to be not acceptable on carry-on (which by itself seems disputable anyway it seems), they refused to let her pay for it, and caused her to miss her flight.

 

Ryanair are notorious for this kind of thing, they once refused us boarding "because we were late for check-in", even though they had actually closed the check-in earlier than advertised, forcing me and another dozen passengers who had been stuck in urgent roadworks to rebook a flight for next day at the cost of €120 each! To add insult to injury, the flight hadn't even arrived yet, and the staff was still there hanging around and chatting.

[Bookworm]

With online check in now available from Ryanair they also only check the luggage fits in the 'gauge' at the gate when you are about to board the plane so it makes sense that they cannot accept card payments there.

 

IMO the onus is on the traveller to ensure their luggage is the right size (I took a tape measure when buying my case as I travel with Ryanair a lot)

The onus is indeed on the pax, but as I said, that's irrelevant as you are offered the possibility to put it in the hold at a premium cost if it doesn't fit, and pax did accept that.

 

The problem is not there, it's that Ryanir wouldn't accept a payment they themselves demanded, at which point they could have: a) waived the charge b) let her carry it onboard since the difference was seemingly minute, instead of which they created the situation, then refused her boarding!!! Talk of daylight robbery! But as I said nothing new with that lot.

 

I should have added that following the incident I had, they might have got that €120 off me on that occasion, but have lost thousands of £ from me since, as I never flew with them again, and I travel quite a lot.

[perplexity]

nail, hit. head. You obviously DON'T understand.

 

It is perfectly allowed to carry extra luggage and to pay for it when arriving at the airport, for whatever reason. There is nothing to stop you arriving with an extra suitcase, having decided that you can't travel without your favourite teddybear after all, but you must be willing to pay the extra charge for it.

 

Wrong.

 

Rather than project the idiocy onto others who know better, I suggest to review Ryanair's Terms and Conditions, e.g.

 

Checked baggage can be purchased online at the time of booking or via the 'Manage My Booking' section of our website. Checked bags can also be purchased via a call centre up to 4 hours prior to the scheduled flight departure (subject to call centre opening hours) or up to 40 minutes prior to the scheduled flight departure time at the airport

Ergo, beyond the time limit there is no right to check in extra luggage, all straightforward, QED.

 

Apparently, they also allow for "airports with self-service kiosks" but nothing that I have so far noticed from Ryanair makes an unconditional promise to allow a passenger to pay for an extra suitcase on arrival at an airport, unless he does so online or through a call centre in good time.

 

If you rather pretend to know where to find a promise or a statutory duty to refute that, please post the hyperlink.

 

P.S.

 

When I have flown with Ryanair the hand luggage was checked immediately before boarding the aircraft, not before the 40 minute deadline.

 

Edited June 25, 2010 by perplexity
P.S.

[Bookworm]

[edited by self. No matter how justified, I shouldn't have called you that, it's - presumably - not your fault]

 

If you don't know the difference between "can" and "must", I suggest you learn it before trying to patronise others. It's fairly basic English, no need for a single "ergo". "Ergo" means that there is a logical deduction, and logical deductions may all be very well for a philosophocal debate, they don't belong on T&Cs.

 

PS: You obviously haven't travelled with them very often, as it varies from airport to airport, depending on size, staff available and knowing Ryanair, the way they felt at that particular moment in time.

 

Not interested in listening to your ad hominem any further, I have read your particular brand of posting before, and wouldn't waste another minute of my time on your ignorance.

 

To the OP: You can and must of course believe whoever you wish. Before you do, I suggest you check how long Bankfodder (creator of this site) and I have been around, how many posts we have between the 2 of us, then check other people's and then decide who you think might have a slightly better clue on consumer rights and law. ;-)

 

Bookie, over and out.

Edited June 25, 2010 by Bookworm
see bracketed

[Cityboy62]

But whatever the number of posts a particular poster has made, advice can be just as good from whatever the source.

 

I happen to believe the OP's girlfriend has a legitimate case of denied boarding under the regulation, the definition of which is as follows:

 

 

(j) "denied boarding" means a refusal to carry passengers on a flight, although they have presented themselves for boarding under the conditions laid down in Article 3(2), except where there are reasonable grounds to deny them boarding, such as reasons of health, safety or security, or inadequate travel documentation;

 

I don't see anywhere that the OP has given the airline reasonable grounds to deny them boarding and none of the reasons stated above apply to this situation.

 

Rather I believe that Ryanair has unreasonably denied boarding and should pay the appropriate compensation of 250 euros.

[perplexity]

If you don't know the difference between "can" and "must", I suggest you learn it before trying to patronise others.

 

The offence you accuse me of, Bookworm, is your own.

 

In order to contend that Ryanair owns a particular duty to a passenger the need is to prove that a contract exists to that effect (or a statutory duty to the same effect), and that the contract applies to the particular circumstance which is also a matter of fact.

 

The convincing way to prefer to deal with that is to do so.

 

Hearsay is not proof.

 

[Bookworm]

But whatever the number of posts a particular poster has made, advice can be just as good from whatever the source.

Absolutely. Didn't mean it any other way.

 

Ell-en was such a case, when she joined us, her quality and knowledge shone through straight away, and to this day has never disappointed.

 

I do believe that people who talk out of their backsides get spotted fairly early on too. They usually get bored fairly quickly with what amounts to little more than trolling and move on, although we have had the one or two clinging on for longer. That's the way it goes with Internet forums, I'm afraid.

 

Ultimately, as I said, people must choose for themselves. Reading back a sample of other posts is also usually a good way of ascertaining who you're dealing with.

[perplexity]

Not interested in listening to your ad hominem any further, I have read your particular brand of posting before, .....

 

[perplexity]

I don't see anywhere that the OP has given the airline reasonable grounds to deny them boarding and none of the reasons stated above apply to this situation.

 

According Ryanair's Terms and Conditions:

 

We reserve the right to cancel your reservation without refund and to deny you boarding if you arrive at the boarding gate with more than one item of cabin baggage or if that item exceeds the maximum dimensions.

N.B. "if you arrive at".

 

Ergo, the hand luggage check is not a courtesy service intended to assist a passenger to determine whether or not the luggage should be paid for instead. The passenger is supposed to be sure, before the event, that the luggage conforms, which is to suggest (again) that in so far as the staff were willing to be tolerant on that account they deserve to be credited with that.

 

It is conceivable that the term could be overruled by a Court but I am not going to bet on it.

 

[jailbird]

Re Post 11...............

 

I travel with Ryanair regularly and have NEVER had my hand luggage checked. Just walked through onto the flight after security.

 

Its one thing to ask a customer to pay extra charges for overweight baggage but completley another to not provide the facilities to do so !

 

I think someone needs to lighten up on this thread and its not a certain worm !

[Cityboy62]

According Ryanair's Terms and Conditions:

 

N.B. "if you arrive at".

 

Ergo, the hand luggage check is not a courtesy service intended to assist a passenger to determine whether or not the luggage should be paid for instead. The passenger is supposed to be sure, before the event, that the luggage conforms, which is to suggest (again) that in so far as the staff were willing to be tolerant on that account they deserve to be credited with that.

 

It is conceivable that the term could be overruled by a Court but I am not going to bet on it.

 

 

In the event that the Ts and Cs of an airline conflict with the Regulation, the Regulation prevails........

 

The OP's girlfriend has been unreasonably denied boarding, 'ergo' the Regulation applies!

[jailbird]

When checking website it states 'fee not available online' for excess baggage but also states 'Fee can be purchased at our Airport Ticket Desk'.

 

So one would ask the question again.....do theynot have to facilitate a 'purchase' system at the Airport Ticket Desk ?

 

One awaits a reply......

[perplexity]

Re Post 11...............

 

I travel with Ryanair regularly and have NEVER had my hand luggage checked. Just walked through onto the flight after security.

 

Its one thing to ask a customer to pay extra charges for overweight baggage but completley another to not provide the facilities to do so !

 

If this were nothing but a [problem] to squeeze more money from the unsuspecting one would rather expect the credit card machine to work.

 

The more you go on about the payment method the more likely you are to persuade Ryanair that the crucial mistake was to be helpful enough to offer an opportunity of any sort instead of completely refusing the passenger. The fuss about the payment would not then arise and the airline would be home and dry in any case.

 

Under the given T&C's the crew would own the right to deny boarding on the strength of an ad hoc inspection whether or not every passenger was formally checked, nor is this so peculiar to Ryanair. It is a long standing tradition that the captain of a ship owns the right and the duty to decide what is good for it.

 

I think someone needs to lighten up on this thread and its not a certain worm !

 

The better time to lighten up is when the baggage is packed to start with.

 

My back-pack passed the check with ease, from which I surmise that far from being mean and stingy about it, the metal cage they use to test the size allows some considerable leeway over and above the prescribed dimensions.

 

[Bookworm]

It is a long standing tradition that the captain of a ship owns the right and the duty to decide what is good for it.

 

Congratulations, you have just won the title to the world's thinnest argument ever used.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[perplexity]

So one would ask the question again.....do theynot have to facilitate a 'purchase' system at the Airport Ticket Desk ?

 

One awaits a reply......

 

This was already pointed out.

 

We reserve the right to cancel your reservation without refund and to deny you boarding if you arrive at the boarding gate with more than one item of cabin baggage or if that item exceeds the maximum dimensions.

Do you therefore suggest that a passenger with a cancelled reservation, denied boarding and with no refund, should none the less be allowed the opportunity to pay to send the baggage, without the passenger?

 

[jailbird]

If, as you say, this is a [problem] then why would not offer support and advice (no matter how limited) instead of writing this person off and telling them they have no chance ?

 

How often have you been on a flight and the 'Captain of the Ship' checked your baggage ? Not very often one would sumise.

 

Your sarcasim knows no bounds re: lighten up but saying that what else would I expect from a MAN with a 'back-pack' !

[jailbird]

its back LOL Did not take long eh ?