Connaught Collections reconstructed agreements

[Brigadier 1JCS]

Connaught collections have sent my daughter two 'reconstructed' agreements

regarding a debt to 1st. Credit for an Associates Capital Corporation credit card.

Both agreement have the usual heading regarding the CCA 1974 and Associates name and address followed by my daughters name and address, the rest is the normal terms and conditions (10 pages).

There are no signatures or dates.

I have had a quick check on the Just Answer web site and have been told on

line by a barrister that as long as the DCA has complied with the CCA1974 time limits etc. he can see no way that these agreements can be challenged.

Also Connaught say the debt is not stat barred but have no said why an just gloss over it. Now threatening court action in 7 days as they don't agree that the matter is in dispute.

I would be most grateful if any one could give me some advice on what to do next.

[Housed]

If they take you to court I’m pretty sure they are going to need a properly executed agreement with signatures on them.

[wiltshirecouple]

Connaught cannot take your daughter to court using a reconsituted agreement, they must produce the originals.

If they had the originals, they would have sent them to your daughter in the first place.

Connaught would say it is not statute barred, when was the last payment made?

[Hardupnotfedup]

When did your daughter make the last payment to the alleged debt or acknowledge the debt in writing, if there has been any period of 6 years then it is statute barred.

They will never admit to a debt being SB and some have been known to show a token payment being made as they attempt to start the SB clock again.

[Brigadier 1JCS]

Hi, Thanks for the reassurance she is a bit vague on the last payment as the card is about 7 to 8 years old, been in the middle of messy separation and divorce,and lost a lot of stuff in an emergency move, rough idea only that it is stat barre, can I use anything to get the info out of connaught?

[Jasper1965]

If she writes to them and states it to be statute barred then the onus is on connaughts to prove that it is not. This is obviously going to be much easier than asking Connaughts to provide evidence that it is SB'ed.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Brigadier,

If your daughter wants to get to the bottom of it she could send a Subject Access Request directly to ACC, which will show up the last payment details and exact amount owed etc.

The link for the letter template is here.

 

In the meantime she should send the Statute Barred letter to Connought.

Link to template here.

 

kind regards,

Elsa x

[Brigadier 1JCS]

Hi further threatogram from Connaught today claim the have complied fully with CCA and threatening court action charges and cost as they claim a payment was made £10.00 in Feb 1005 default was June 2004.

they quote a judgement in 2009 Phillip McGRUFFICK _v _ Royal Bank of Scotland

to justify the reconstructed agreement.

Any ides please?

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi, you could send them something on the following lines:

 

Dear Sirs,

Thankyou for your template letter.

I am fully aware of the recent test case of RBS vs McGuffick, however to pre-empt any further attempt at confusion on your part I would point out that this referred to an agreement which was compliant but temporarily unavailable, therefore does not apply in my case.

Clearly you have chosen to abide by the Consumer Credit Act as minimally as is lawful, by providing a reconstituted agreement. While this may satisfy a CCA request, it is not enforceable in a court of law.

As you are threatening legal action on a debt you have yet to prove is valid, I now ask you to supply me with a signed statement as to whether you actually hold a copy of the original signed agreement. If you do not hold an agreement, then I require you to confirm this.

Certainly I can think of no valid reason why you should choose to provide a reconstituted version rather than simply photocopy the original-if it exists.

It is in both our interests to resolve this matter between us by being open and thus hopefully avoid abuse of the Court System.

I would remind you that the OFT state that creditors should not imply or state that an enforceable agreement exists if that is not the case.

Should you carry out your threat of court action, it will be vigorously defended and you will be required to produce an original, signed, compliant agreement to support your claim.

I am merely attempting to clarify the situation before this becomes necessary, so that I can make an informed decision and take legal advice if necessary.

I look forward to receiving your response within 14 days.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Undercover-Elsa

[Brigadier 1JCS]

Thanks Elsa thats a great help I've just read through relevant parts of the judgement and it seems to refer only to fixed sum agreements not rolling credit or credit cards any basis to challenge on that do you think?

Edited June 10, 2010 by Brigadier 1JCS
CAN'T SPELL

[Undercover-Elsa]

I wouldn't bother..it's just a template paragraph they throw in as a smoke screen. DCA's are constantly taking it out of context now to confuse people.

[Undercover-Elsa]

I would maybe add to that letter:

Finally, this request should not be construed as acknowledgment of the above debt. Quite obviously I am unable to do so without adequate proof and so far you have failed to supply this. I will be making further enquiries directly with ACC in an attempt to clarify the situation.

 

 

I would not trust their word on the £10 payment. It's an old trick.

Definitely send off a SAR to ACC, then we know what we're dealing with.

 

Elsa x

[Undercover-Elsa]

Here's a good discussion thread on the reconstituted agreement issue:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/211306-new-tack-supplying-cca.html

[Bigfoot911]

Does your daughter not owe the money then?

Harsh of them to take legal if she isnt even responsible!

[DonkeyB]

Does your daughter not owe the money then?

Harsh of them to take legal if she isnt even responsible!

 

Well, if it IS statute barred - as it appears to be imminently, if not already, barring an amazingly coincidental one-off payment - they cannot pursue it through the courts, says the OFT.

 

On no account send them an SB letter at this stage though - that would be tantamount to acknowledgement, and you should wait for the result of the SAR to find out if the £10 payment was genuine (as Elsa alludes to). If that payment is not genuine, then a whole world of hurt will open up for Connaught - inventing a 'payment' to get round an SB issue would be cause for a very strong complaint and would, in my view, be worthy of investigation by Mr Plod.

 

Did they claim there was a £10 payment over the phone? Or in writing?

 

Meanwhile... whiff of t-roll, anyone?

Edited June 15, 2010 by DonkeyB

[Undercover-Elsa]

Meanwhile... whiff of t-roll, anyone?

One day, after the revolution, I think we should all put together our dca letters and make a papier mache Statue of Liberty sized figure of Sir Francis Bennion. We could call it "The Statute of Lavatory"

 

PS even if that random £10 payment was made..your daughter only has to hold out till after February next year. Just make sure everything that is sent includes a no acknowedgement disclaimer and refers to the above account or alleged account as opposed to "my account".

Elsa x

Edited June 16, 2010 by Undercover-Elsa

[oilyrag]

Can I operate Madame Guillotine please?

 

oilyrag.

[babybear39]

Subscribing...

[babybear39]

Can I operate Madame Guillotine please?

 

oilyrag.

 

Only if Bookie says yes

[Brigadier 1JCS]

Latest crapogram from a David Silver Litigation Dept. ie third desk from then left in the down stairs bog.

States that their ''Client'' 1St.Credit is very disappointed not to have received payment despite their compliance with the CCA and did I realise their ''Client''

has the option of seeking a CCJ cost & interest but they a willing to give one last chance!

Sent a suitable amused reply and offered them one last chance to comply properly with the CCA or I have the option of legal action sent RD so a quick reply is hoped for.

[DonkeyB]

Maybe change the tone of your letter. A reconstructed CCA is now allowed to fulfil a s 78 request; what you need to point out to them is that, as they have threatened legal, action, and as a pre-action protocol, are they claiming to have an enforceable agreement, ie. the original signed document or a genuine (rather than 'true') copy which they can put before the court? EDIT: No doubt they will quote Carey v HSBC - which we can shoot down in flames.

 

If you couch in in terms like that, and they refuse to answer and take legal action, you will instantly be on the front foot.

 

PS Where did Bigfoot the Troll disappear to? A one-post wonder...

Edited June 16, 2010 by DonkeyB

[Brigadier 1JCS]

So thats the smell that comes with the letters. Elsa

[Brigadier 1JCS]

Since using CPR to obtain all docs they seem to have lost all records of any such case!!!!

[babybear39]

Oh dear

 

WHOOP WHOOP!!!

[Brigadier 1JCS]

Urgent Update.

!st. credit via Judge & Priestley have issued a claim through Northampton CCBC

and have included me as a co-defendant with my daughter.

The POC is as follows:

The claimant claims the sum of £3415.71

for debt and interest. The defendant was indebted to Associates Capital Corporation for credit advanced.The debt was assigned to the claimant Notice of assignment was given to the defendant.

AND THE CLAIMENT CLAIMS

The sum of £2355.37

Statutory interest pursuant to sect.69 of the County Court Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from 22/10/04 to 08/07/10

1,071.34 & thereafter at a daily rate of 0.51 until judgement or sooner payment.Should i write to Judge & Priestley regarding the claim against me as I have only advised and written letters for my daughter?

 

All this and they have still only provided a reconstructed agreement consisting of 11 pages of terms and conditions no other docs have been supplied.

I would appreciate some help as my health has deteriorated and I am soon to have major spinal surgery,thank you all in advance.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Brigadier 1JCS
2nd thoughts