Final written warning

[FERNOX]

Hi all again, i posted a while ago when i was threatened with dismissal due to my sickness record, i managed to keep my job just, because there is another guy employed with a back problem and they have adjusted his job to help him and they have not mine (i have Spondylosis and Spondylolisthesis of the lower lumbar).

 

Although keeping my job is a plus, i was issued with a final written warning (lasting 1 year) even though i have never had any warnings before, im afraid my union feel this is a good result, im not happy but i accepted warning on their advice.

 

My questions are :

 

can employers issue a final written warning to me even though most of my time off was due to my back injury, and i had doctors sick notes?

 

Im trying to find out if i can register as disabled with my condition and still work, and if i do manage to get registered disabled (which these days is probably impossible) can the written warning be revoked ?

 

Also im sat here now in extreme discomfort, i have never had a final written warning in my life, should there be some guidelines to it because i have no details, should my employer give me these ? - ie if i have a day off is that my job gone ?

 

thanks all have a great weekend

[honeybee13]

Hello there. My memory is terrible and I don't remember this, sorry. would it be possible for you to post a link to your last thread please? That way, we can refresh our memories and you won't have to go over old ground.

 

Your union's attitude baffles me too, but I'm not one of the gurus here. I don't think you have to be registered disabled to come under the Disability Discrimination Act, if that's what you're driving at. Your condition is covered by the DDA if it meets the right conditions.

 

What is the warning for exactly and have they seen any medical evidence about you?

 

I see BRB is hovering and hope he'll comment too.

 

HB x

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

(a) Prior to issuing you with the final written warning, did your employer follow disciplinary procedures?

(b) A final warning is a severe penalty which just stops short of a dismissal. Your employer would be entitled to award such a penalty if he reasonably thinks that it is justified by your level of absence.

© Disabilities are covered under the DDA. The Act defines disability and disabled as follows:

Meaning of “disability” and “disabled person”

(1) Subject to the provisions of Schedule 1, a person has a disability for the purposes of this Act if he has a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

(d) if your condition meets the content of the Act, then you would be protected under the Act and could request adjustments be made, and one of them would be to ask for any absence related to your medical condition to be rescinded, or recorded separately...

[scousegeezer]

Fernox,

There is no such thing these days as registered disabled. As BRB points out the correct procedure is to get you company to accept that you are covered by the DDA. Your union should help you with this. The conditions you have are degenerative and are therefore covered by the DDA. Your company may want you to visit their OHU, but that should not be a probelem. Approach you line manager with a report requesting the company to accept that you are covered by the DDA and report back when you have the result from the employer. Once your employer accepts that you are covered by the DDA, they should not take any sickness into account when considering capability. However, they can dismiss you on capability grounds if it is clear that you cannot carry out your job - say if you were off work for six months a year. But before they can do that,. they would have to make reasonable adjustments in the workplace to accommodate you and assist you to do your job. Hope this helps.

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer

[FERNOX]

(a) Prior to issuing you with the final written warning, did your employer follow disciplinary procedures?

 

i was put on sickness monitoring, a couple of times and my union says this is classed as verbal warnings, i also recieved a couple of letters and i believe at the bottom of one it stated something about disablinary action, but at not point was i informed that any of these were verbal or written warnings, should i have been ?

 

(b) A final warning is a severe penalty which just stops short of a dismissal. Your employer would be entitled to award such a penalty if he reasonably thinks that it is justified by your level of absence.

 

i hurt my back at work and was off for about 100 days before i could return, i was then off for a further 30 days with the same complaint, ever since the accident i have had back pain, so my doctor sent me for an MRI scan which showed the above back conditions.

 

In total i have had 160 days off work over 4 years including an operation and a penetrating eye injury, i know its alot of time off and maybe they are right.

 

Im just worried now because this weekend my back has acted up again and i have to go to work or lose my job, they have given me no guide lines, i am going to inform them tomorrow that my back is bad because really i have too, i just dunno what to do, catch 22....

[honeybee13]

You hurt your back AT WORK? Was it your fault or theirs please? If it's a work-related injury, then their attitude baffles me. Was the accident dealt with properly at the time?

 

Don't worry, other caggers will be along with answers for you.

 

HB x

[Allwood]

Also with new medical certificate the changes are if you need adjustments there is a box for that purpose and the GP will tick it and the GP will request that you see the OHA.

 

I have been in two unions and both of them were very unhelpful. I am still awaiting to see if they will let me have access to one of their solicitors, I am not holding my breath. :-? :-?

 

Scousegeezer you have been very helpful and very much appreciated, why do you think unions are so reluctant to help members nowadays, if their work place is not unionised:-?

[scousegeezer]

Allwood,

I think probably because the union membership at a particular workplace is not very strong, they sort of lose interest. I also think that some union reps only take the position because it gets them out of the workplace for some days a year and they dont really know what they are doing. A miriad of reasons really- nothingparticular or specific. You should push for legal representation for your wife though. If they fail to allow you access to legal representation, I would go and see an employment specialist lawyer ; no win no fee. With a view of suing both the union, for their failure in representing your wife and also the employer for failing to make reasonable adjustments.

 

Fernox,

Was the accident reported in accident book at work and reported to the HSE. Have you taken legal advice through the union solicitor for damages for the accident at work. In view that your injury was caused/exacerbated through the accident at work you MUST push for your condition to be recognised as a disability and once it is get the final written warning expunged from your record as it is disability related sickness.

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer.

[honeybee13]

You read my mind, Scousegeezer.

 

HB x

[FERNOX]

My injury was done while shoveling directly onto the back of a flat back truck, i did report it and put it into the accident book, not sure about HSE involvement dont think that happened, not to my knowledge, should it have ?

 

I haven't taken advice through the union solicitor for damages for the accident at work, because i thought there had to be blame with my employer, and how would i prove that !!!

 

i now have problems with simple things like unloading the shopping trolley (repetitive bending) and carrying the bags to the car on the weekly shop, does this sound DDA grounds, my work are making adjustments to my job description, so guess they are doing something.

 

you MUST push for your condition to be recognised as a disability

ok i get back pain ever day and like this weekend when it is bad it spasms my body, do i need to reinvolve my union to push for this, or just see OH again or my own Doc?

 

sorry so many questions but i feel OH are on management side, all this help is good thanks all

Edited May 31, 2010 by FERNOX

[honeybee13]

Hi there. As regards the HSE report or lack of one, have a read of their website under RIDDOR, which is the reporting system.

 

Yes, you should involve their union, it's what they're for, but the standard of help varies, as we've seen here.

 

My other thought, and I'd like other caggers to comment please, is whether a trip to a no-win-no-fee lawyer is in order.

 

Honestly, I find it unbelievable that they allow you to be injured, don't deal with that properly and are now victimising you for the same injury. Nasty people. I have to go now, sorry not to post a link to HSE. Just going to kick the wall. Grrrrrrrr.

 

HB x