Ryanair claim turned down ****£820 now refunded****

[denso13]

We had a legitimate claim (I think!) with Ryanair for the delays due to the ash cloud. Delayed in Girona for 6 extra days after being rebooked and cancelled twice for our return journey by Ryanair. Finally cancelled our return flight after being given a third rebooking for two weeks hence, and found our own way home!

 

Went through their procedures for claiming compensation but only claimed for accommodation as we had no receipts for anything else. Received their reply as follows;

 

Dear

>

> We sincerely apologise for the inconvenience caused by the changes to your flight times on booking confirmation number

>

> Ryanair, in common with all airlines, reserve the right to alter flight schedules. This information is contained in the Terms and Conditions and Conditions of Carriage, on all itineraries and also in the Travel Questions section of our website. This is obviously something that we endeavour to minimise, but occasionally due to airport and air traffic restrictions we do have to alter the timings of flights.

>

> Below is an extract from our Conditions of Carriage that relates to flight time changes.

>

> 9.1 SCHEDULES

>

> 9.1.1 The flight timings shown on your Ticket or elsewhere may change between the date of reservation and the date of travel.

>

> 9.1.2 When we accept your booking, we will notify you of the scheduled flight timings in effect as of that time, and it will be shown on your Ticket. It is possible we may need to change the scheduled flight timings after you have booked your flight. If you provide us with your e-mail address, we will endeavor to notify you of any changes by such means. If, after you purchase your Ticket, but before the date of travel, we change the scheduled departure time by more than three hours and this is unacceptable to you and we are unable to book you on an alternative flight which is acceptable to you, you will be entitled to a travel credit voucher or, upon application, a refund in accordance with Article 10.2.

>

> However, whilst we make all reasonable efforts to contact all passengers affected by a timing change to their reservation, we also advise passengers who make flight reservations well in advance to contact their local Ryanair Reservations office or review their booking details on our website in order to confirm their flight reservation and departure times prior to departure.

>

> In these circumstances, we are not in a position to offer compensation in respect of this matter.

>

> How we confirm that your refund request has been processed to the form of payment used to pay for your booking. Your card issuing bank will then take 5-7 working days to process this refund amount back to your account.

>

> The amount refunded to your credit/debit card is GBPUnknown

>

> To review your booking please click on the link below

>

 

>

>

> Yours sincerely

>

> Ryanair Customer Services

 

 

Sorry, for the rather long post, but does anyone have any initial thoughts?

Edited May 15, 2010 by denso13

[Bookworm]

:-?

 

That looks like a standard response, and has nothing to do with the ash cloud problem. :-?

 

I'd write back saying that your claim is specific to the volcano issues, and point out section 10.2 which they themselves quote: They offered you an alternative flight, it wasn't suitable and you want a refund. It's actually quite straightforward.

[honeybee13]

Hello there. I've only been following this loosely and have no experience of travel legislation. Have you looked on the other threads on this forum, because I remember a lot of links being posted about volcano compensation and particularly Ryanair?

 

HB

[denso13]

:-?

 

That looks like a standard response, and has nothing to do with the ash cloud problem. :-?

 

I'd write back saying that your claim is specific to the volcano issues, and point out section 10.2 which they themselves quote: They offered you an alternative flight, it wasn't suitable and you want a refund. It's actually quite straightforward.

 

Hi there,

 

They say they are refunding the flight, but they were quite public in saying they would pay reasonable costs for accommodation while delayed, but now they seem to be saying they will not pay any compensation.

[denso13]

Hello there. I've only been following this loosely and have no experience of travel legislation. Have you looked on the other threads on this forum, because I remember a lot of links being posted about volcano compensation and particularly Ryanair?

 

HB

 

 

Hi HB,

 

I have been following the other threads and was just a bit gob smacked when I received their reply. As I said in a previous post I had thought the had agreed to pay reasonable costs for accommodation, but it seems not:?

[honeybee13]

Hi. I don't remember the details, but I thought there were helpful links to official websites, but maybe I'm wrong?

 

HB

[Bookworm]

Ok, well, no mention of flight refund in your initial post.

 

I think what they're doig is relying on this:

 

Notice [100414-EU261_ENTITLEMENTS-GB]

 

and using the clause that since you didn't go for option b), then the additional costs deriving from b are not covered, as it is only under b that you become entitled to the accomodation costs.

 

Now then. I would argue that whilst they may not have to apy for anything after you left Girona, including accomodation if you hd to stop en route back to the UK, there is still the 6 days you spent there whilst waiting for a new flight, at which point your claim WAS under section b), and that it's only after the 1st week that it became obvious that another 2 weeks was not an acceptable alternative, that you decided to switch to a).

 

In other words, the argument is the the FIRST cancelled flight was a claim under section b) (re-routing + accomodation), and the subsequent cancelled flight(s) was a claim under section a) (refund).

 

No doubt they will try to argue it, but that would be my argument all the way.

[denso13]

Ok, well, no mention of flight refund in your initial post

 

Sorry Bookworm, maybe I wasn't clear. The email I copied in from Ryanair does mention our refund request had been processed, which was for the return flight cost.

 

As for your interpretation of the compensation claim, I too thought that's how it would work. Maybe it's a standard email to try and put people off but I posted the reply I got from them to point out to others in the same situation that it might not be as easy to claim as it might seem.

 

Cheers

[Bookworm]

It's going to be the World Trade Centre argument...

 

The insurers and the owners have been arguing at length over a few words and their meaning in the insurance contract: Was the collapse of the Twin towers a single incident (one act of terrorism) or 2 separate incidents (2 planes, 2 hijacks, not simultaneous etc...)? and we are talking of millions of $ here, because depending on the interpretation, the insurers will have to pay only once or they will have to pay twice.

 

It's the same argument here, is this one flight getting delayed, then reinstated then delayed (one claim), or is it two separate flights being cancelled then rescheduled (2 claims).

 

No doubt Ryanair will try and argue the former, it will be up to you to fight and argue the latter.

 

Edit: Re the WTC, The federal judge decided it was a single event, and therefore one claim. ;-)

Edited May 15, 2010 by Bookworm

[denso13]

I see what you mean:cry:

 

You won't be surprised to hear I will be arguing that the flights are separate with each one quite clearly being cancelled (as it still shows on their website), not delayed.

 

I drafted a reply to their email and will see what happens.

 

As for the WTC maybe the ruling would have been two separate events if the second one happened a week later:)

 

Thanks (for now!).

[Cityboy62]

Denso

 

I agree with Bookworm's post #7. I happen to believe, however, that because this particular aspect of the regulation has never been tested in a higher court, that Ryanair will continue to deny your claim on the basis that you (eventually) agreed to a refund despite initially you agreeing to be re-routed.

 

The only way I see Ryanair or any other airline paying out expenses under Article 9 when the passenger has opted for a refund of the flight is if a passenger was to take this to court and appeal it all the way to the ECJ.

 

Sorry if this doesn't sound hopeful for reimbursement.

[denso13]

Thanks for that Cityboy62.

 

The public face of Ryanair did say they changed their mind and would actually pay out on these claims after initially saying they wouldn't, which I guess was after political pressure somewhere. But I did wonder about that and didn't think it would be as easy as they made it out.

 

I agree with you that they probably won't give in without a fight so I'll have to give some thought to that.

 

Thanks again.

[Caffey]

Denso 13,

 

Like the earlier poster, I think your Ryanair e-mail is standard for "normal" disruptions; I think the volcanic ash disruptions should be treated separately.

I do think, however, that Ryanair may try to argue that, since you accepted a flight refund, you waived your rights to related compensations. I would certainly dispute this with them. As you imply, they should be liable, at least, for expenses incurred between the cancellation of your first return flight and the last cancelled return flight.

I am sure that there will be many "first refusals" by Ryanair in an attempt to put off claimants but I think it is advisable to continue to pursue them.

 

On a personal level, I have received no communication in response to my letter and fax. Are you able to publish the e-mail address of the compensation department since it is not available on their website?

 

 

Thanks, in advance.

[denso13]

Caffey,

 

The email we received came from [email protected]

 

I think you are right about it being a standard response about delays, but we did follow the procedure on their website and submitted the claim on their form relating to the ash cancellations.

 

Cheers.

[andydd]

BBC News - Italy fines Ryanair over volcano ash 'failings'

[Caffey]

Denso13,

 

Thanks for the e-mail address; I'll try to contact Ryanair.

I do think you have a genuine claim for the "between cancellations" expenses.

I would pursue it.

 

Hope you get some success.

 

Thanks again,

 

 

Caffey

[delilah 9]

I have a similar story and problem as the denso13. I never asked for the refund though. I called them on my return home to tell them I didn't need the return flight as I had paid to go home with another airline. Had an email yesterday to say they are refunding and I have no further claim against them. I already posted off my claims for hotel and transfers a few weeks ago. Not sure where to go from here now but think i will be taking legal advice after tomorrow

[Caffey]

delilah 9,Like denso13, I think you should pursue this claim. I'm convinced that they are trying to eliminate claims by a quick refusal or by not responding to claims.Can I ask you how long it took to get a reply and was the e-mail address the same as the one that replied to denso13?I just feel that 3 weeks without an acknowledgement is an attempt to ignore my claim.Any help would be appreciated.Thanks,Caffey.

[delilah 9]

Caffey, The email address is different to Denso13

 

[email protected]

 

this is the actual email message I received in response to my letter I believe.

 

Dear Customer,

 

I refer to your recent correspondence regarding your booking confirmation ******

 

Ryanair sincerely apologise for the cancellation of your recent flight which was caused by the closure of European airspace following the volcanic eruption in Iceland. As you will be aware this disruption was completely outside the control of any airline.

 

We wish to confirm that your refund has been processed back to the original form of payment used when making your original flight reservation and this refund should be reflected on your account within 7 working days.

 

The amount refunded to your credit/debit card is GBP ***

 

As you requested a refund please be advised that in accordance with EU Regulation 261 you do not have any further claim against the airline.

 

Due to the mass disruption and to ensure that we can promptly process all valid claims we cannot enter into further correspondence with customers regarding claims not covered under Regulation EU261/04. If you have submitted a claim for expenses in addition to your refund request, I regret that no response can be provided. Ryanair strongly recommend that all claims for expenses not covered under Regulation EU261 should be claimed directly from your travel insurer.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Ryanair Customer Services

 

Unfortunately, email replies to this address cannot currently be accepted, responses can be sent by fax to Ryanair Customer Services on +353 1 5081702

[Caffey]

delilah9,They really do seem to be trying to fob you off completely. If I were you, I would persist with the claim by faxing that number.For my part, I've received nothing in response and have great difficulty in contacting Ryanair. If I have not received a response by the end of next week, I shall take further steps.I'm not sure if there is such a thing as an Ombudsman responsible for Air Travel but I imagine there must be some governing authority in Britain which looks into breaches of European Legislation Rules. Presumably, MEPs have some insight into procedures to follow. Might be worth a try.I know that your initial response is unsatisfactory but I have received nothing despite phoning (no answer after 30 minutes wait), writing and faxing. It just makes me more determined.Hope you have some luck.Caffey.

[delilah 9]

Caffey,Have been looking myself since yesterday to try and find out what rights I have. I came across this article

 

How dare these airlines act like victims? | News

 

which seems to be full of useful information, I believeThe Air Transport Users Council is what you are referring to . Will be trying that tomorrow after i have faxed Ryanair with my response. I don't have access to one at home so will be going to work early for a change . . I have numbers for Reservations and head office if you want it? not sure if i can put them on here?

[denso13]

Delilah9,

 

That's an interesting response you have there. Just a thought - when I eventually got home I tried to book a flight from Girona, out of curiosity, and there were plenty of empty seats much earlier than the 10 days later they offered me at the airport.

 

Now they surely wouldn't have offered us a flight 10 days later knowing in all likelihood we would have cancelled, which would then allow them to turn down our claim for the six days we waited for our second flight to be cancelled.

 

They wouldn't do that......or would they;-)

[Caffey]

delilah9,

 

Thanks for that information; I'll take some time to read the article. As for posting their addresses, I think this information should be public. Why would they want them suppressed?

 

 

denso 13,

 

I hope that's not a hint of cynicism detect in your last post!!

[delilah 9]

Taken from saynoto0870 website

 

+35312480856 UK Reservations (Eire)

Fax: +353 1 5081702

 

+35318121212 Head office, Eire: - 0 for Operator

 

Denso13, What I found strange was the original flight date home was 15th April for me, I was given the 20th as an alternative, as airports were still closed on this day too, the 1st May was the only date they could offer!! I paid for a flight out of there to Glasgow the following day as they could only offer the 27th April. Looking at it all in hindsight I think they would do that

[denso13]

Delilah9,

 

That's similar to me. Return due 16th April (to Prestwick) which was cancelled, rebooked for 21st which was also cancelled. Went to airport on 21st and was offered 1st of May (nice coincidence!). And as I said when I checked after I got home there were plenty of empty seats way before the 1st.

 

I put that down to other people cancelling, but now I'm not so sure (allegedly)