Esa Appeal Today.

[cbbc]

Hi, I have my appeal today.

I sent in all of my specialist letters and a detailed report of where the ATOS doctor went wrong ( i used Honeybees template) two weeks ago.

I rang tribunal service yesterday with a question only to find that even though my info was signed for, they have no idea where it is and have not sent it to the place I am going to have my hearing. This info is usually looked at by the tribunal 2 weeks before the hearing date but I am to have my hearing without them looking at my evidence, even if I take it today it is not going to be examined as closely as it would have if they had received it 2 weeks ago.

I am devastated. It is bad enough having to face these people without this happening.

I will get there early with copies but I know it will not be the same, everything will be rushed and I will never know if they were read or not.

Please make sure that you check with the tribunal every step of the way.

I had checked with the Royal mail tracker service to make sure my letter had arrived but it still was not enough to make sure it went to the right people, they have no idea where this very personal private information is.

I will let everyone know what happened later.

[honeybee13]

Hi cbbc, I've been wondering when you were on parade, and thanks for the advert. The cheque's in the post .

 

Seriously though, don't let it get to you. I think the tribunal will be rather unhappy about this and may well make extra allowances for you. You sound as if you know your papers backwards and as you have copies, you can show them anything that they need to see. Don't part with it though!

 

I shall be like a mother hen today waiting to hear how it went, so please tell us when you feel able to.

 

I have everything crossed for you. Big hugs.

 

HB xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[cbbc]

Thanks Honeybee,

I just rang the clerk and she said if I come in a bit early she will photo copy them and they should have time to read them properly.

I'll let you know soon.

[COUNTMEIN]

I KNOW ITS A BIT LATE...as you'll be there by now?

 

but GOOD LUCK!! Hope it's all going well for you there?

 

My fingers and toes are crossed for you and that Hopefully 'JUSTICE IS BEING DONE!!

 

REGARDS

 

COUNTMEIN X

[RaeUK]

Best wishes cbbc, hope everything turns out well in the end ...

Much love

Rae

[cbbc]

Hi every one.

Thanks for all your good wishes, they worked because my appeal was allowed.

I got there early and the panel looked at my papers before I was asked in.

There were just two ladies, a tribunal judge and a doctor.

It was explained that only evidence up until my medical in September could be taken into consideration.

I was questioned thoroughly about the ESA50 that I had filled in in August.

I had not realised that the ESA50 would be as important as it was.

I was very nervous but it was not as bad a I thought it would be.

I went in on my own and the ladies were very nice.

I already had 6 points and was given another 9.

I hope every one going through this is as lucky.

Thanks again for the support, advise and good people on this site

I hope I can now help people going through this too.

[honeybee13]

cbbc, I can't tell you how pleased I am and relieved for you! I expect you're knackered now, go and chill out. I remember how I felt after the event. Honestly though, it's nearly as exciting as when I won my own appeal, I'm so happy.

 

And thanks for letting us know. And please stay around and give others the benefit of your experience. I hope you live in peace from now on.

 

HB x

[ee-bee]

great news,well done, really pleased for you

[furnitman2003]

brilliant, well done,

[ErikaPNP]

Fabulous news cbbc!

[RaeUK]

Very very happy for you!

Best wishes

Rae x

[happyhamr]

I have just read your thread cbbc and would also like to say WELL DONE

and CONGRATS on your appeal.

 

One Concearn ie thread number 6

 

''It was explained that only evidence up until my medical in September could be taken into consideration''

 

Are you saying that any other additional evidence or information after the medical date is not taken into account? ie ATOS medical report?

 

2 -Lots of people's original ESA50 forms are not copied for themselves and so have no idea what was originaly quoted on the form.

As it takes so long for the appeal to be heard how are you supposed to remember what was on the original form?

 

Does this mean that no other evidence is taken into account, ie medical certificates, doctors reports and hospital letters.?

 

My condition has deteriated since I had the medical, how are they supposed to know this, if they do not take anything else into consideration?

 

I originally did not receive any points, but as explained above i have deteriated, how are they supposed to know this if all they look at is the medical report which state -

I received a ESA65 quoting 'how we arrinved at the decision''

1 - questionaire I filled in recently.

2 - the report of the medical assessment I went on

 

I have a copy of my medical report, and the prognosis states ''functional problems-''I advise that a return to work COULD be considered within 3 months'',this was in February.

 

I am due for an operation in June. fingers crossed.

 

If they only look at the medical report what is the point of appealing, if no points were originally given how is this supposed to change?????

[honeybee13]

Hi there. I don't think it's like that, but you might have a quick read of the DWP/directgov website on the appeals process.

 

Have you had the appeals pack from the DWP? If the forms you want aren't in there, I'm sure they must have some sort of duty to provide you with them.

 

Don't give up on appealing. The system is there to be used.

 

HB x

[happyhamr]

Original Esa 50 Form If They Just Look At This ....

 

And Base Decision On This ?

 

Whats The Point Of All Recorded Letters Which I Have Sent

 

To Appeals Section/ Department

[happyhamr]

I appealed decison on 17 FEB

 

SIGNED FOR ON 18 FEB PROOF

 

MIR SCAN , REFERAL LETTER FROM DOCTOR

 

5 PAGE LETTER

 

ADDITINAL LETTER 1 PAGE 2 SIDED

 

CERTIFICATE MEDICAL ALL IN LETTER

MY CONCERN HONEYBEE - AND EVERY BODY ELSE........

 

IS '' IT WAS EXPLAINED THAT ONLY EVIDENCE UP UNTIL MY MEDICAL IN SEPTEMBER COULD BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION'' CBBC THREAD 6 - THIS LINE IN PARTICULAR.

 

THANKS HONEYBEE BUT I FEEL THIS NEEDS ADDRESSING BIG TIME BY ALL OF US.

[ErikaPNP]

Any information which is forthcoming after a decision is made which does not relate to the condition at the time of the decision will not be considered; a tribunal will only consider evidence which relates to the condition at the time the decision was made.

 

For example, let's look at occupational therapy. An OT will sometimes spend a period of time assessing someone's needs at various appointments and in varying environments before they will write a full report. If an OT was involved in assessing needs at the time the decision was made but did not write a report until after the decision was made, the tribunal would likely admit this evidence as the report though written after the decision, relates to the condition at the time the decision was made.

 

The decision that is being appealed against is that you were classified as fit for work at that time. If a condition was to deteriorate after the decision is made, they would not be able to consider this. They can only look at the facts which relate to the condition at the time of the decision being appealed against. A deteriorating condition or new medical evidence would fall under supersession or a new claim rather than appeal.

[paulb1310]

Well done on winning the appeal. Just to broaden the debate, isn't is worrying that the Tribunal Service appears to have "lost" the info that cbbc sent to them? If cbbc didn't have a copy then her appeal might have gone the other way. Has this happened to other people?

[happyhamr]

Yes it is Very Worring

 

Both Physical and Mental Problems....? what get Worse, evidence

supplied after med assessment(atos) not allowed?

 

YES or NO

 

Sorry I am a bit slow (ALL new to me)

 

I maybe slow , BUT what about ALL of the people who dont ,KEEP,COPY of ESA50(original) ...MAYBE because they do not have the strenght to

keep filling LOADESSSSS OF FORMS jUST TO GET WHAT THEY ARE

ENTITLED TO...

 

Thinking this is a Real EYE OPENER to me..

 

WELL DONE again CBBC KEEP asking Questions-KEEP FIGHTING

 

 

ALL OF US TOGETHER

[happyhamr]

What me thinks your saying Erica

 

I should do a New claim so then all new Evidence/ Info would be allowed IN,,

 

IT IS BONKERS.........

 

I have a Feeling the answer is going to be (Thats the SYSTEM)

 

DISGUSTING...

 

Whats that Report on Here..

1in10(SUPPORT/GROUP) 2in10(WORK/GROUP 7in10(????JSA?back to work,even if you have/are having difficulties (Physical/Mental)

[happyhamr]

WELL DONE Paulb 1310 for trying to get this DEBATE UNDER WAY

 

I am sure CBBC will not mind.

[honeybee13]

Hello happyhamr. I hope you understand that I'm here trying to help and that cbbc used the template I put in a sticky that may have helped her win her tribunal. I'm not claiming much credit, because she did all the work and fronted up alone, which I could never have done.

 

I was always taught that CAPITAL LETTERS on email meant shouting, which in my fragile state I've never been able to cope with. I understand if you're stressed, but is there any chance that you could stop 'shouting' please? Otherwise, perhaps you would like to have your own thread where you can shout and I won't visit. This is still cbbc's thread.

 

My best, HB x

[antone]

Yes it is Very Worring

 

Both Physical and Mental Problems....? what get Worse, evidence

supplied after med assessment(atos) not allowed?

 

YES or NO

 

There aren't many ESA questions with yes or no answers, but if your question is "Is medical evidence showing that the condition got worse after the ATOS medical allowed in an appeal against the result of that medical?" then the answer is "No".

 

If your condition worsens, you should ask the DMs to reconsider the decision. Evidence of the worsening of your health can be taken into account in this case. Making a new claim is also an option.

 

 

I maybe slow , BUT what about ALL of the people who dont ,KEEP,COPY of ESA50(original) ...MAYBE because they do not have the strenght to

keep filling LOADESSSSS OF FORMS jUST TO GET WHAT THEY ARE

ENTITLED TO...

 

People are only "entitled to" a benefit if they do the things that entitle them to it. In the case of ESA, that means filling in the forms, attending medicals and so on.

 

I do agree, though, that the rules and conditions are needlessly complex. That's a matter for the politicians to deal with, and I'm waiting with some interest to see what our new, elegantly coiffeured overlords are planning to do.

[ErikaPNP]

What me thinks your saying Erica

 

I should do a New claim so then all new Evidence/ Info would be allowed IN,,

 

IT IS BONKERS.........

 

I have a Feeling the answer is going to be (Thats the SYSTEM)

 

DISGUSTING...

 

Whats that Report on Here..

1in10(SUPPORT/GROUP) 2in10(WORK/GROUP 7in10(????JSA?back to work,even if you have/are having difficulties (Physical/Mental)

 

No, even if you made a new claim the evidence would not be permitted in an ongoing appeal because that evidence would relate to the new claim, and be considered as a part of the new claim, not the previous one which is being appealed against.

 

Evidence which does not relate to the condition at the time of the decision will not be admitted because it is viewed as irrelevant. Evidence which is available after the date of the decision but which relates to the condition at the time the decision was made, will be admitted because it is relevant to what is being appealed against. It is the same for evidence against the appeal. If there was an improvement in the condition after the decision to decline benefit, this too would not be admitted because the tribunal is there to decide if the decision which was made on the basis of the medical condition at that time was incorrect.

[speedfreek]

Right well done CBBC

 

@ happyhamr

 

Read the info in my post on ESA in the Useful links sticky http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/125283-useful-links.html#post2928367

 

Myself, antone (in your thread) and Erica (in this) have all answered the question on evidence and submission.

 

The only problem is that most people do not understand that all evidence must be provided as quickly as possible and before a final decision is made by a DM. The DM has to adjudicate the claim at each stage and it is the lack of evidence to support your claim which triggers the request for more evidence (i.e. the ESA50 form, followed by the interviews). If enough supporting evidence is available the DM can at any stage make an award.

 

1 thing I'd like clarification on is this

 

Does any evidence you send have to be written in a non medical simplistic way so that the DM can understand it. i.e. a Doctors report which says you have condition XYZ in medical speak has to be phrased condition X means I can not sit down, Y means I can not walk etc. As the ESA Doctors guide says conclusions must be phrased in a non medical way so that the DM can understand it (well that's my take on it)

 

As for the notes going missing - Erica has posted in another thread that mail once received then has to be routed by an internal postal system to the correct place. It was also noted that sending items signed for recorded often delays acceptance. With the info being sent 2 weeks before the date it is highly likely that it is still working its way through the system trying to get to the correct place.

[ErikaPNP]

It is preferred that Doctors reports are written in laymens, rather than medical terms however if it is written in medical terms, the DM should consult with medical services (contracted by DWP) for the information to be put into words that can be deciphered; no decision should be made on the basis of a report unless the DM can actually decipher it or have it deciphered for them.