natwest Bank and RSM Tenon

[Giveitblackmore]

Amongst my creditors are Natwest bank who by reducing my overdraft by a third last year even though money continued to flow into my account forced me into an untenable position with all my creditors.. I had no choice but to default on my Premier Charge card and therefore my overdraft. This then led to my doscovery of CAG and the fight that began with my credit card creditors which I'm glad to say goes well.

 

On the advice of CAB at the time (since realised this was not a good idea having discovered CAG) I did an I&E and offer of payment to al creditors - Natwest made no reply to my offer in August last year and they only reared their head at the end of last year at which point they appointed RSM Tenon to recover the debt. I told them that I had amde an offer of repayment and that would they please refer to their client as I had no intention of doing anythign other than making that payment.

 

After much toing and froing they are now insisting that I fill out another I&E for them as Natwest did not forward the original one to them and that as its been six months I need a new one anyway.

 

I am not inclined to give these people anything and as far as my financial situation goes it has not changed since August and surely as they just ignored my original offer and I&E it is down to them to accept or deny nto me to have to do all the work again?

 

Could really do with your advice as to what to do next.

 

Thanks

 

GIB

[spamheed]

After much toing and froing they are now insisting that I fill out another I&E for them as Natwest did not forward the original one to them and that as its been six months I need a new one anyway.

 

I am not inclined to give these people anything and as far as my financial situation goes it has not changed since August and surely as they just ignored my original offer and I&E it is down to them to accept or deny nto me to have to do all the work again?

 

Could really do with your advice as to what to do next.

 

Thanks

 

GIB

 

 

They have no entitlement to this information at all, only a court can insist on you providing sensitive and private information of this nature. If their internal systems are crap it is hardly your fault and if you feel like being awkward you could always request a copy of the agreement which states that you would provide them with an I&E every six months.

 

The first thing I would suggest is sending CCA requests to the lot of them, except for the overdraft (which isn't covered by the CCA) a simple "prove it" letter to the debt collector, make them verify thateir status and don't simply accept their word that they have a right to collect this debt

[Deb T]

I think I' also send a CCA request for the overdraft at the same time, see what/if they have anything for them to go on. There is a notion that overdrafts are partially covered by the cca act and as banks mark your credit file accordingly re an overdraft then I'd give it a shot.

 

(link removed - incorrectly supplied)

Edited April 21, 2010 by Deb T
incorrect link

[Giveitblackmore]

Thanks guys - much appreciated. Should I go back to the bank and more or less ignore these guys at this point do you think? I've already write to them saying I will not be providing a further I&E as that has gone to the bank?

 

I think I need to do a Subject access request on the bank too? Should I do a CCA request at the same time?

 

Thanks again

 

GIB

[Giveitblackmore]

Deb T - read your attachment and not sure where this applies (I am sure this is my lack of understanding:)) Also the charge card is just that - payable at the end of each month in full. So does this come under CCA?

 

Best

 

GIB

[Deb T]

Not sure where that link came from, I'll see if I can't find an appropriate link..

 

First as stated further up the thread you are not obliged to provide and I&E to a bank/creditor/dca....I guess there is an argument that if you're trying to reach an amicable settlement with an original creditor on a debt that you openly admit to owing then providing an I&E statement may help reach an agreement...DCA's on the other hand, I personally wouldn't give them diddly squat as they tend to ignore anything you send in and given the majority of dca's antics evidence of which is in abundance on this forum then who knows what they might do with the information and who they might/give it to/share ...yuk!

 

Charge Cards are not covered by the Consumer Credit Act

 

If you have an overdraft of any sort it may be covered by the consumer credit act and applying for a CCA may produce something to get your teeth in to.

[Giveitblackmore]

Thanks Deb T -

 

GIB

[Deb T]

Here is some help re overdrafts and what part of the consumer credit act they're covered by.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/111275-overdraft-debt.html

 

&

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/94575-cca-overdrafts-final-word.html

 

 

and yes, Subject Access the original creditor

[Giveitblackmore]

Sent SAR today and have told RSM Tenon I am taking advice on next steps. Am I within my rights to write to them to say that I will only deal with the bank from now on?

 

Ta

 

GIB

[Deb T]

It has nothing to do with 'rights' as in it is your preference that you wish to deal only with the bank...quite how the bank and RSM Tenon decide to deal with that is up to them.

[Giveitblackmore]

Ok, but this is something that would be considered reasonable as a request?

[Deb T]

I don't think it's unreasonable to want to only deal with the original creditor that own the debt as opposed to a third party, particularly if the debt is still owned by the original creditor with the DCA simply acting as collection point.

 

If a debt has been assigned full title to a third party and contained within the original terms and conditions there is provision for said action then a judge may consider it unreasonable of you to not want to talk/correspond with the 3rd party.

[Giveitblackmore]

Hi again...

 

I sent a SAR to Natwest and just got a reply stating that my sig did not match that on their records so have asked me to send proof.....

 

"Please send evidence of signature to allow us release (sic) your personal information and visit your local branch to have a member of staff to (sic) update your signature.

 

When we have received your instructions we will verify your signature snd be happy to proceed with your request and any information required to be provided to you under section 7 of the DPA wil be forwarded to you.

 

Please be aware that it is not our practice to provide further copies of standard documents that you would have received as part of our normal course of business. This would include providing you with further copy statements.

 

However if you do wish us to include copy statements, please advise us at your earliest convenience. Please also confirm the statement period you wish this to cover"

 

So comments on this very welcome!!

 

In the interim I told RSM Tenon that I would get back to them with regard to my position on not wanting to provide an I&E to them.

 

I want to go back and say that I am now in direct contact with the bank and wish to deal with them on this sensitive information - is that acceptable?

 

Do I need to write to the bank to request that I deal with them directly and not RSM Tenon?

 

Thanks as always

 

GIB

[Giveitblackmore]

Any thoughts anyone?

[IainHL]

Was it your real signature you used on the SAR, or did you follow normal advice and print your name? I have seen a few threads recently where NatWest have been playing the signature game with CCA/SAR requests.

 

The best advice I can give in these circumstances is to use the CAG digital signature service: Protect your signature with SignGuard. It does cost a (small) amount of money, but seems to me to be the surest way of getting what you want from NatWest without a lot of stalling, or providing them with a signature they could lift and use elsewhere.

[Giveitblackmore]

I did print my name as I'm now entrenched in CAG ways Having said that and as my bank they have loads of examples of my sig. As the debt in question is overdraft and charge card based would they be able to use my sig for anything dodgy?

 

Cheers

 

GIB

[IainHL]

As the debt in question is overdraft and charge card based would they be able to use my sig for anything dodgy?

I guess not. Unless you have any other agreements with RBS that you may be disputing now or in the future. It's up to you. If you feel there is nothing untoward that could happen to it just sign your response to them normally. If you want to protect yourself against all eventualities use Signguard.

[Giveitblackmore]

Hi again...

 

 

Please be aware that it is not our practice to provide further copies of standard documents that you would have received as part of our normal course of business. This would include providing you with further copy statements.

 

However if you do wish us to include copy statements, please advise us at your earliest convenience. Please also confirm the statement period you wish this to cover"

 

 

GIB

 

 

Is this just stalling on their part? I really need to get statements from April to April 08/09 for tax purposes but obviously want them all. Should I write back with sig proof? I no longer bank with them so see no point on going into branch to get a member of staff to verify my sig. I'm freaking out a bit here so your help much appreciated.

 

GIB

[panther12]

I’m helping a friend who had the same reply after sending twitwest an unsigned sar. They returned the fee due to no sig so we re-sent it along with a stern letter pointing out that they had happily been sending sensitive personal info through the post so why the sudden change now! Also reminded them of the ICO guidelines regarding signatures. They agreed to send the info to our local branch where we collected and showed passport to confirm id. Most of the info was missing and after threatening to report them to the ICO they eventually posted 6 years statements through the post. That was the info from the overdraft account which is made up entirely of charges. We still await the info for the credit card a/c but have now received another letter saying it’s now ready to collect from local branch.

[Giveitblackmore]

Thank you so much Panther. Are you able to share the content of that letter or the ICO guidelines? Also as they cancelled my account a while back is there relevance in me going into the bank to collect statements? Do you think I should head off the missing info by making reference to reporting them to ICO if they try the same thing?

 

Best

 

GIB

[Giveitblackmore]

How's this for a letter back to Twitwest?

 

 

"Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxx the contents of which have been noted.

 

I must confess to being surprised by your response. You have previously had no problem in sending sensitive information to my home address as detailed above so I fail to understand why this is any different? I would also remind you of the Information Commissioners Office guidelines on providing signature.

 

With regard to proving identity I would be happy to go to my local Natwest branch to collect the documents and produce my passport as evidence of identity. I assume that this will be sufficient?

 

As for the information I require I was quite clear in point nine of my original letter that I require all statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement and I would respectrully ask you to adhere to this without omission again with reference to the Information Commissioners Office guidelines on providing this information to your customers.

 

I look forward to your response

 

Yours faithfully,....."

[panther12]

Thank you so much Panther. Are you able to share the content of that letter or the ICO guidelines? Also as they cancelled my account a while back is there relevance in me going into the bank to collect statements? Do you think I should head off the missing info by making reference to reporting them to ICO if they try the same thing?

 

Best

 

GIB

This is what we sent them.

-----------------------------

Data Controller

National Westminster Bank PLC

135 Bishopsgate

LONDON

EC2M 3UR

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir / Madam

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated xxxxx, copy enclosed as per your instructions.

 

You have returned my Subject Access Request and stated: “...In order that we can proceed with your request, please return a copy of this letter containing your original signature...”

 

I am sure you are no doubt aware that there is no legal requirement to supply a signature when making such a request under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act providing you have enough information to judge whether the person making the request is the individual to whom the personal data relates and that the identity of the person making the request is obvious to you. For example, and as in this case, when you have an ongoing relationship with the individual.

 

The Information Commissioner’s Office – Data Protection Good Practice Note further states:

• 2 Do you have enough information to be sure of the requester’s identity?

Often you will have no reason to doubt a person’s identity. For example, if a person with whom you have regular contact sends a letter from their known address it may be safe to assume that they are who they say they are.

 

You have happily sent correspondence containing extensive sensitive private information addressed to me at my address; the same address as that held on your records and the same address detailed in my Subject Access Request. I have to ask if you are now concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person then why it has taken so long to raise this and why you have been sending such sensitive private confidential information if you have doubts over my identity?

 

You have without question addressed all previous correspondence that I have sent to you in relation to the account numbers detailed in my Subject Access Request and I am more than satisfied that you have no reason to doubt my identity. If you are still adamant that you require further verification of my identity before release of my data, I am willing to arrange for collection of the information requested from my local branch, where I can show photographic identification (passport / driving licence) for verification.

 

However, this should not be necessary as you have more than enough information to be satisfied as to my identity. The very nature of the contents of your correspondence addressed to me is a clear indication that you are satisfied as to who I am. You had no problem doubting my identity when sending extensive private and confidential material addressed to me at my address, including correspondence you sent in relation to my request made under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I therefore see no just reason not to release my data based upon the information you already have.

 

As such I return my request, including fee, and expect you to fully comply with my legal request made under s7 of the Data Protection Act. Please note that the time limit to comply started the date you received my request and I expect compliance within the statutory time frame.

 

Should you again return my request and fee by insisting on a signature to verify my identity, or fail to comply within the statutory time frame, you will leave me with no alternative but to report your actions to all relevant authorities.

 

I trust this clarifies the situation for you.

 

Yours faithfully

[Giveitblackmore]

thanks so much Panther this is great!

[Giveitblackmore]

AS per this email string - I owe Natwest Bank for an overdraft and a charge card and I don't dispute this.

 

I made an offer of payment in September last year and as ignored.

 

RSM TEnon came on board and requested my tp provide an I&E which I refused to do referring them back to their client.

 

I have a SAR in progress with the bank.

 

This morning I received a first letter from Capquest....

 

"....We have been appointed by Natwest to contact you directly in relation to the above outstanding balance.

 

Our client has instructed us to consider litigation by 11 JUly if no satisfactory response is received.

 

This firm, together with our solicitors will endeavour to help and assist you in anyt way possible to clear your indebtedness without the need for legal action

 

This issue will not go away and if not addressed immediately we will utilise the legal system to the utmost

 

We are presently undertaking various checks and validations to expedite legal proceedings. These checks will be focused on property ownership through the land registry office and validation of employment details.

 

If no satisfactory response is received by 25 June your account with all relevant details established will be forwarded to our solicitors for immediate action....."

 

Should I refer them back to the bank and the offer of payment already made?

 

Help!!

[Giveitblackmore]

Any thoughts on this anyone - I'm really worried about this one!