Loading on single yellow line

[hobajay]

Hi,

 

Apologies if this is something which has been covered - I presume it must have been but can't find anything specific to my particular problem.

 

I am a professional dog walker and every day park on a single yellow line for approximately 3 minutes while I go into a customers house and collect their dog for walking, and again when I drop the dog off after the walk.

 

Yesterday in the post I received a "notice to owner" letter from Lambeth Parking informing me that a PCN was issued at the beginning of last month and that the penalty charge had not been paid.

 

I didn't physically get issued with the PCN - not left on my windscreen nor handed to me - traffic wardens are often around when I'm there but no one said anything to me to the effect that they were issuing a ticket.

 

Also, I was under the impression that I was allowed to park on a single yellow line for the purpose of loading/unloading for as long as the task required, am I correct in thinking this?

 

I am obviously going to dispute the ticket, but unsure if I should site the loading/unloading point or the fact that no ticket was issued to me? Or both?

 

Many thanks for any help or advice.

 

Jo.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

This wouldn't come under a loading exemption as the car is a convenience not a necessity (the dogs are quite capable of walking to the car). It may come under the boarding/alighting exemption but it will depend on what the tro/tmo and the legislation itself says. Bottom line is I think it may be tough on this point.

[hobajay]

Hi Bernie,

 

Thanks for the quick response.

 

I understand that the dog can walk to the car, so I could have therefore parked in a pay and display bay 4 streets away and walked to and from the house. But with regards to loading/unloading small items that aren't heavy wouldn't the same logic be applied - i.e that the person could have parked and then walked to and from their van etc to load/unload?

 

What about the other point about the PCN not actually being put on the windscreen, or handed to me, or even me being told that a ticket was being issued? I genuinely had no idea about this until I got the "notice to owner" letter yesterday.

 

Many thanks,

Jo.

[hobajay]

I've just come across the website penaltychargenotice.co.uk and it seems to back up my idea that loading the dog into the car is a reasonable reason for having the pcn cancelled, as it was part of a commercial activity the size of the item is not relevant?!

 

PenaltyCharge Notice.co.uk - Parking - Parking Adjudicators Decisions

[Jamberson]

I don't think you could describe a dog as an item, or as goods. The loading exemption tends to apply where there is a necessity and as Bernie pointed out, that's a bit tricky to argue when your business is walkingthe dogs anyway. The argument for allowing passengers to alight might be a better way to go with the appeal - slightly unusual situation though.

 

As regards not receiving the PCN, in principle yes - if the CEO says he/she could not serve it as the vehicle was driven away, then this might stick as a postally served PCN. I think there are different sorts of NTOs, one for postal PCN, one for standard. Maybe if you could put a scan up, with personal details blanked out? If it's not a postal PCN version, you might have a case.

[green_and_mean]

I don't think you could describe a dog as an item, or as goods.

 

I see where you are coming from but livestock still needs to be unloaded be it a lorry load of sheep or your beloved pooch so the fact that its alive isn't really relevant, you wouldn't expect a pet rabbit to walk from the nearest P&D.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Just thought, if you also had other dogs in the car then you could argue that you were unable to leave them unattended and hence needed to park in close proximity to your customer - that may help justify the exemption.

[hobajay]

Hi,

 

Jamberson - I will dust my scanner off when I get home and hope it's still working to show you exactly what I got.

 

I have read somewhere today (goodness knows where - have lost track of what info was on what site!) that "goods" could be "animate or inanimate"

 

I did have other dogs in the car, as I walk several dogs from different homes together, so I will make sure I include this information in my letter to Lambeth Parking, thanks green_and_mean and bernie_the_bolt!

 

Jo.

[hobajay]

Jamberson, if this helps what I received is exactly the same as this example, with the contravention code being 01. Do you still need me to scan mine in?

 

http://www.parkingappeals.co.uk/LinkClick.aspx?link=Documents%2ftma2004%2flambeth+nto.pdf&tabid=539&mid=2121

[green_and_mean]

Jamberson, if this helps what I received is exactly the same as this example, with the contravention code being 01. Do you still need me to scan mine in?

 

http://www.parkingappeals.co.uk/LinkClick.aspx?link=Documents%2ftma2004%2flambeth+nto.pdf&tabid=539&mid=2121

 

Lambeth have a reputation for these NTOs appearing after no PCN was seen on the car I would ask for proof it was served. You have nothing to lose now they have deprived you of your discount so you may as well go all the way to adjudication. Appeal in the first instance to the council that:

 

a) you were unloading

 

and

 

b) no PCN was served

 

with your appeal request a copy of the original PCN, the officers notes and photographs taken at the time.

[Jamberson]

Maybe someone who knows better than me can identify it? Looks like a postal PCN to me - maybe someone can confirm this?

 

If it is, and the CEO claims the vehicle was driven away before he/she could serve, then that argument is probably going to fail. If it is not, then you might have a way to appeal it.

 

NTO experts??

[sailor sam]

What does it say on the plate?

 

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Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[lamma]

Maybe someone who knows better than me can identify it? Looks like a postal PCN to me - maybe someone can confirm this?

 

If it is, and the CEO claims the vehicle was driven away before he/she could serve, then that argument is probably going to fail. If it is not, then you might have a way to appeal it.

 

NTO experts??

 

Denied. the words "NOTICE TO OWNER" are the clue Reg 10 PCNs don't look like that

[hobajay]

Right, I've just been back to the place that I parked and there is no plate referring to the yellow line that I could see. It starts next to a bay for residents parking, for which there is a plate stating the times of operation, and I walked the length of the single yellow line from there, to where it joins a double yellow, no plate anywhere. So is this my 3rd point to follow 1)loading and 2)no PCN issued??!

 

Am feeling fairly confident that they will cancel the ticket now! Thank you all!

 

Jo.

[sailor sam]

If there's no plate then the lines are non-complient. Only DYL's do not need a plate.

Edited March 13, 2010 by sailor sam

[Michael Browne]

If there's no plate then the lines are non-complient. Only DYL's do not need a plate.

Unless it's a CPZ, which sound s likely, as there is mention of resident's bays.

[Jamberson]

And if it's not a postal PCN, then there is a dispute over whether a PCN was ever served.

[hobajay]

Hi all,

 

Thought I would update you with what happened with this ticket.

 

After procrastinating quite a bit, I eventually wrote my letter to Lambeth with the following points:

 

"Grounds for representation: The alleged contravention did not occur AND There has been procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority

 

1) The alleged contravention did not occur

I am a professional dog walker and park my car on ........... in order to pick up a customer’s dog from ........... I left my car unattended for a maximum of 3 minutes. I believe that under the road traffic act I am allowed to leave my car on a single yellow line (with no specific loading restrictions) for the purpose of loading/unloading in the course of my business.

 

2) There has been procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority

The Penalty Charge Notice was not issued. I did not get the PCN on my car, one was not handed to me, and I was not even aware that anyone was in the process of writing the ticket. Furthermore, I did not receive a Penalty Charge Notice in the post. The first I have known of this alleged contravention was on receiving the Notice to Owner in the post.

 

Based on the above, I look forward to hearing that the PCN has been cancelled."

 

 

Today I received a letter from lambeth:

 

"Thank you for your letter in which you made representations about the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

 

I am pleased to tell you that we have accepted your representations and cancelled the Penalty Charge Notice, and that you should hear no more about this matter."

 

Yay! Though it doesn't state which of the points I raised were the reason that they cancelled the ticket, but I am very pleased, more so because I nearly missed the 28 day deadline - eek.

 

Thanks all for your help, it was much appreciated.

 

Regards,

Jo.

Edited April 21, 2010 by hobajay

[cream70]

Hi all,

 

Thought I would update you with what happened with this ticket.

 

After procrastinating quite a bit, I eventually wrote my letter to Lambeth with the following points:

 

"Grounds for representation: The alleged contravention did not occur AND There has been procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority

 

1) The alleged contravention did not occur

I am a professional dog walker and park my car on ........... in order to pick up a customer’s dog from ........... I left my car unattended for a maximum of 3 minutes. I believe that under the road traffic act I am allowed to leave my car on a single yellow line (with no specific loading restrictions) for the purpose of loading/unloading in the course of my business.

 

2) There has been procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority

The Penalty Charge Notice was not issued. I did not get the PCN on my car, one was not handed to me, and I was not even aware that anyone was in the process of writing the ticket. Furthermore, I did not receive a Penalty Charge Notice in the post. The first I have known of this alleged contravention was on receiving the Notice to Owner in the post.

 

Based on the above, I look forward to hearing that the PCN has been cancelled.

 

Regards,

Jo Lindsay."

 

 

Today I received a letter from lambeth:

 

"Thank you for your letter in which you made representations about the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

 

I am pleased to tell you that we have accepted your representations and cancelled the Penalty Charge Notice, and that you should hear no more about this matter."

 

Yay! Though it doesn't state which of the points I raised were the reason that they cancelled the ticket, but I am very pleased, more so because I nearly missed the 28 day deadline - eek.

 

Thanks all for your help, it was much appreciated.

 

Regards,

Jo.

 

They probably feared that you'd be happy to take it to PATAS demanding proof of service. I.e photos. Scumbeth traffiic wardens having a history of lying about service of PCNs.