Lowell and sisters old poss SB'd CAT debt

[Azuma]

hey guys,

i've got a request, it's my sister in law who has the problem.

Essentially, what's happened is that she was paying off a debt for a littlewoods club,

i think she said she was paying Lowell originally £30 pcm,

however she was not able to continue this as she is now a single mum and finding it hard.

She stopped paying them, and have "passed it on to Hamptons" (course they did )

- the last payment made was before xmas, liability has been confirmed etc, she is happy to pay off the debt, but says she can only afford £10 a month.

My question to you fellow Caggers is,

is there a letter template for this kind of request?

and can they refuse this amount? (legally i mean)

- i've got a feeling they might ask for a copy of her earnings or a means test type thing,

are they allowed to ask for this? if so, is she obliged to give them this info?

any help would be much appreciated.

Az

[UnitedFront]

OK. Firstly, when you say liability has been confirmed etc.... do you mean simply because she has been paying them? Because if so, then this does not prove liability. If she hasn't already done so, I would send a CCA request to ensure that all the paperwork etc is in order.

 

Secondly, the OFT guidelines on debt collection state that DCA's must not try to make debtors pay more than they can reasonably afford.

 

Lastly, the DCA can ask her to provide such details; BUT SHE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO REFUSE!! I have never and will never give these people my personal details. But that is just my stance on this particular issue.

 

If she hasn't made a cca request, then that would definitely be my first move. And then take it from there. Once she has sent the request, after 14 working days (12 days + 2) the account will be in default and they cannot (or should not) take any action to enforce it until they come up with the relevant paperwork.

 

Let me know if you need the cca request letter and I'll post it up.

 

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

UF

[rameses_qc]

Bear in mind also, that these catalogue companies usually (in 99.9% of cases) do not have a properly executed agreement, so they cannot enforce the debt through the courts. This gives a lot of leverage when dealing with these imbecilic parasitic morons i.e. accept what they're given, or get nothing

Also, it's quite correct, these idiots are NOT entitled to any private and/or personal information. NEVER EVER give them N.I. numbers, bank details or debit card details or employer details. Only a Court can demand this info

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

While I agree with the previous posters and not to pay these t*rds a penny, some people feel they have a responsibility to do so and in that spirit, here is a list of template letters to use.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

While I didn't have a catalogue account, I still CCA'd the Leeds Losers and they couldn't supply the agreement so after a short bout of letter ping pong they threw in the towel and I had nearly £750 written off.

 

If, as I suspect, Lowells have said she is "liable", this means nothing unless they have an agreement with which they can enforce the debt AND the agreement has to be a good 'un too

[ashmk]

Yes CCA request is the way to go. The objective being does the company concerned have their paperwork in order. Could they prove it in court ?

 

In the mean time, and I know the general advice is not to speak on the phone. If they do catch her on the phone she can simply say that £10 per month (even £1) is the offer as that is all she can aford and that a court would never make her pay more than she can afford. (Paying anything at all assumes a CCA request comes back in order.)

 

DCA's love to use the court threat but in reality a court can be a DCA worst friend when it comes to setting payments. Besides, as long as she is paying somethin she can afford (assuming the CCA is correct) then a court would not be to happy with a DCA wasting the courts time.

 

Moral of the story = DCA love the court threat but very rearly use it unless you own a home or something of value. Its a pointless threat in most cases and you can call their bluff. If you have nothing to lose then there is no threat. A court will always side with the genuine hardship case debitor and set a payment plan that is manageable.

 

 

PS. Was this a signed paper agrement or did she open it online ?

[Azuma]

i thought about CCA'ing them, but she wanted to pay it off, i'll advise to send the CCA letter, i have this on file already... will let you know the outcome guys, thanks for the help as always!

she opened it over the phone i think - pretty sure there isn't an enforceable CCA - it was taken out 7 years ago by all accounts.

Az

[Azuma]

hey guys,

just wanted to give you a little up - date here,

i CCA'd Lowell on behalf of my sister in law, they have recently sent a copy of the contract which i will upload here in a moment,

can you guys let me know if this is enforceable,

it was signed as you'll notice in 2003 - but she has been making payments recently in the last 6 months,  not sure if this is admitting liability?

as a couple people here previously said this is not admission of owing the debt?

can you clarify this for me and let me know the best way to proceed?

if this is not enforceable can someone please give me a letter template of what to send them?

if it is enforceable, again, could someone please let me know the best way forward.

thanks in advance caggers!

Az

lowell Littlewoods Flex AC CCA Return.pdf

[debt4get]

making payment DOES NOT mean admitting liability,

if she defaulted in 2003 and then didnt make any payments for 6 years after this then it would be statute barred, regardless if she has paid in last 6 months..

.not too sure bout agreement it is blurred and difficult to read to see if all terms there, wait for someone else to have a look

if it is enforceable and she is a single mum then i would suggest she makes an offer of no more than a pound.

.this is about all a court would order her to pay

[Azuma]

thanks guys

, i would need to send a SB letter then you recon?

seeing as the account could have been defaulted for 6 years, i don't know if i can request a statement of account?

does it work the same way as a bank?

any advice on the way forward would be much appreciated, can anyone tell me if this is enforceable also?

if need be i can re-scan and upload at a higher resolution so you can see the tc's and c's

[debt4get]

yes you will need to send a sar letter it cost 10 quid this will give you all the information on the account from day one, you could try the sb'd letter and see what they say back they will at least confirm when payments were made

[Azuma]

exactly my thoughts mate,

i would rather send them a SB letter and see if they claim a payment has been made within the 6 years of default - knowing them though they'll spout some bull crap

- think sending them SB letter will be the next move, after all the liability is then on them to prove that it isn't statute barred right?

meaning my sis in law won't have to pay 10 quid to find out how long the default was for.

What do you recon?

by the way, any chance you could point me in the right direction of the correct SB letter? - i really appreciate it dude

[debt4get]

Dear Sir/Madam

I do not acknowledge any debt with your company

 

Acc/Ref No

you have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself.

I would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 “an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.”

I would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that “it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period”.

The last payment of this alleged debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from us in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, we suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that “continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970”.

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed and that no further contact/action will be made concerning the above account after that last letter.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

hope it helps

[Azuma]

thanks buddy

[Azuma]

if anyone else has some useful information or ideas, please feel free to let me know... i'll keep you all posted when they get back to her - thanks D4G - i really appreciate your help mate.

Oh, also, if anyone could tell me if this is an enforceable CCA, please tell me as i can send them a letter stating this fact, i'll send the SB letter in the meantime, perhaps if i send enough letters they might give up lol

by the way, on the covering letter (blatantly written by  lowell) they state that the account was opened in 28th feb 2003 and in the past 12 months £150 has been paid

- it's very convenient that they state a payment was made just a couple weeks before the account would be SB'd,

i have sent the SB letter now and will await their pathetic response

[Azuma]

hey guys,

 

i've been having an issue with Lowell, i sent them a CCA letter, to which they sent me a contract dated Feb 2003

- i then sent them a SB letter, to which they responded that the account is not SB as a payment was made in Sept 2008... which i think is bull to be honest.

now i want to send them the Prove It letter, but don't seem to be able to find them here..

. can anyone please post up the prove it letter?

the account in dispute is a catalogue that my sister in law took out ages ago and forgot all about.

any help would be much appreciated guys, thanks in advance!

 

Az

[cerberusalert]

Just write and tell them to prove it, i.e;

 

Dear Lowlifes.

 

Prove it.

 

Yours,

 

[Azuma]

haha, fair one, but would be nice to have something more structured

[cerberusalert]

There isn't one that I'm aware of. The onus of proof is on them & stating that you paid x amount on such & such a date doesn't cut the mustard.

 

If they continue to pursue complain to Trading Standards & the OFT because they will be in breach of OFT guidelines.

[Azuma]

 i might just write something like, you state an amount was paid on xx date,

however i do not believe this to be the case, unless sufficient proof is provided then no attempts to collect should be made...

what do you think?

maybe put some stuff in there about if they continue to pursue then i will be forced to contact the OFT and TS..

[cerberusalert]

Just state that until the prove that the debt exists and they can substantiate their assertion that payment was made in Sept 2008 by providing evidence of the method of payment they are in breach of OFT guidelines & if they continue to pursue you will be making a complaint to the TS & the OFT.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

Statute barred debt

2.13 This guidance applies to the pursuit of debt regardless of its age. We will becarrying out further work on this aspect of debt recovery including analysis of

relevant legislation and practice throughout the UK.

2.14 In the past we have dealt with a number of statute barred debt cases governed by

the Limitation Act 1980, which applies to England and Wales. Based on that

experience our position with regard to England and Wales remains:

a. we accept legally the debt exists

b. it is the methods by which the debt is collected that can be

unfair as follows:

• it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from

the creditor during the relevant limitation period

• if a creditor has been in regular contact with a debtor before the debt

is statute barred, then we do not consider it unfair to continue to

attempt to recover the debt

• it is unfair to mislead debtors as to their rights and obligations, for

example, falsely stating or implying that the debt is still legally

recoverable and relying on consumers not knowing the relevant legal

provisions, and

• continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they

will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to

harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of

Justice Act 1970.

[Azuma]

thanks mate, nice one.

[cerberusalert]

Out of interest, was the CCA they sent you a blank agreement with your details hand written minus your signature?

[Azuma]

 here is a copy of the CCA...

lowell Littlewoods Flex AC CCA Return.pdf

[cerberusalert]

The reason I asked was because catalogue companies were never very clever when it came to enforceable agreements, but in your case it seems in order.

[Azuma]

yeah, i thought as much mate, thanks for the feedback though, i've put all the info into a letter now, will send off and see what they say - i was like whoa, Cerberus is a bit keen! haha