Advent Computer Training (Barclays Partner Finance)Info and discussion thread

[Savarok]

Fuzzbutt is there any chance I could have a copy of the email from Computeach please?

[Lankus]

I just called OLCI to get some information about the course i'm being forced onto and it's going to be up to 3 days before someone can call me back to discuss this because they're so busy due to the sudden influx of students. How are they going to cope and be able to offer a good service when they're clearly so overwhelmed with the number of new students???

[10pack]

I just called OLCI to get some information about the course i'm being forced onto and it's going to be up to 3 days before someone can call me back to discuss this because they're so busy due to the sudden influx of students. How are they going to cope and be able to offer a good service when they're clearly so overwhelmed with the number of new students???

 

That I can believe, I wrote a post yesterday, When I spoke with the BPF rep in Febuary he mentioned that they had over 6,000 stundents in the same position as me.. so with that thought.. how can computeach have the capacity to take on such a large amount of students at the same.. just like with the lack of NHS beds.. its not possible!!

[malchus25]

Does anyone know what's happened with A4ron's lawyer?

[Mustard2243]

Got two letters today one saying they are dealing with my complaint and another saying computeach blah blah blah.

 

Sent of my FO forms today

[panliberski]

provided we're not happy with the whole situation, is BPF able to enforce the agreement without getting a court order? (CCA 1974)

 

I'm writing to Aaron's solicitor at the moment, I'm joining in the fight.

 

Computeach

[Savarok]

My letters stated that I needed to hear a resolution to my complaints on/by the 1st of April.

 

I've drafted my letter to the FOS (I'm assuming BPF will reject my complaint) and copied everything I think that needs to be sent.

 

It's taken me nearly 5 hours to get everything sorted!!

[Mustard2243]

provided we're not happy with the whole situation, is BPF able to enforce the agreement without getting a court order? (CCA 1974)

 

I'm writing to Aaron's solicitor at the moment, I'm joining in the fight.

 

Computeach

 

I do not think they can, in addition to this how could a court enforce this. Computeach has a huge pile of complaints ranging from mis-selling to everything in between.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Mustard2243
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[ReloadG]

I think we sood all not join with computeach and keep figthing this and not pay back any thing ( if you havent ) i still have not pay a penny back let .....and figth this 2 court we will all keep complaining ..and at the end they cant do **** if we not paying back for some thing we dont want ....they cant win

[TomBL]

I hope you guys sort this out. I think if you all stick together and don't give in, you may just break through.

 

From the research I have done, CT are no where near giving you the same deal as Advent.

 

I came across this link earlier. Its definately worth a read. I have typed a great paragraph from this.

 

A Financial Time Bomb is Ticking for Barclays Partner Finance.

 

BPF claimed they were offering students the opportunity to gain training from Computeach giving the following reason. Jon Orritt from BPF said that the company was glad it could help these thousands of students continue with their education, despite the problems thrown up by the recession. He continued: "We chose Computeach because their services are very closely aligned with Advent's and they are recognised as the industry's market leader.”

 

To Mr. Oritt we say; if Computeach is closely aligned with Advent, how long will they be in business?

 

Have a think about the key points I think might help your cause.

 

1. BPF had no intention of ensuring Advent students got similar or better IT training as a deal was done with Computeach from the very start, why? Because they are the cheap option and also guess what the Advent Directors were from Computeach but left because of the way Computeach did things and their poor reputation to set up Advent, guess what happened next? Can you guys find out if there was any other TP in negotiations??

 

2. So Advent have now gone bust and the Directors have sent them back to Computeach who have been selling courses for £1,188 against Advents £5,950, do BPF really believe they have sent them for similar or better training or might it be about them not paying out and getting their money back at the cost of the quality of training to poor Ex Advent Students. its like buying a Rover car, they go bust, so you get a Robin Reliant as a replacement (no disrespect to Robin Reliants)

 

3. Computeach last year sacked most of their staff to save on costs and they are known to offer limited support and make it difficult for students to obtain qualifications because it saves on costs and support. Advents students are getting a raw deal but I guess that does not bother BPF or Computeach............money grabbing b'stds.

 

Keep at it guys, Barclays have done you over!!!!

[Mustard2243]

It's over Barclays do not try to pretend everything is fine it is clearly not.

 

Has anyone emailed the financial times about this i wonder how it would affect Barclays share price were this news to get to the markets?

[MARTIN3030]

Update on my enquiries with the Office of Fair Trading in relation to Marehill Finance.

 

The OFT have responded by saying that in the case of a Limited Company,licences that are being renewed/licence details updated,can be searched on the Public register by entering the company registration number.

They also advise contacting Trading Standards with any concerns.

 

Having inputted Marehils company registration number nothing comes up in the search.

 

I have forwarded this on to Dudley trading Standards and asked them to respond.

Those with complaints against Computeach should also complain to Dudley TS.

Their email address is; [email protected]

[MARTIN3030]

Yes a very interesting piece Tom BL.

 

Now a few examples of the IT training courses provided by Advent.

 

 

Advent CDS Course – seven Classroom Days.

Computteach – NO practical offered.

 

 

Advent CIW course 2007 – eight Classroom Days.

Computeach – FIVE classroom days.

 

 

Advent MCAS course – five classroom Days.

Computeach – NO practical offered.

 

 

Advent MCAS 2006 – eight classroom days.

Computeach – TWO classroom days.

 

 

Advent MCAS with CCNA – 10 classroom days.

Computeach – TWO classroom days.

 

 

Advent MCSE 2006 – 14 classroom days.

Computeach – TWO classroom days.

 

 

Advent MCSE 2006 with CCNA – 16 classroom days.

Computeach – TWO classroom days and woops no CCNA at all!

 

 

Advent MOS/MCDST 2006 – four classroom days.

Computeach – No practical offered.

 

 

In total for all these courses from Advent you would receive 72 practical training days. However, Jon Orritt, the saviour, will give you for the same money/loan repayable to BPF the princely sum of 13 practical days from his chosen provider “...We chose Computeach because their services are very closely aligned with Advent's...” It is obvious that BPF’s Jon Orritt thinks in his arrogance that the average IQ of an Advent student must be MINUS 100.

Now a few facts about Computeach itself. We already know that Legal Action against Computeach has already started and their own finance company called Merehill Finance (MF) is insolvent and ceased training due to the overwhelming complaints by students who refused to repay loans due to the shabby service provided by Computeach. In fact their net worth is -£2.4 million. The company will almost certainly go bust with negative consequences for Computeach. Meaning the horse of the Knight is totally lame.

Some bullet points from Computeach itself:

1. The company turns over less than it did five years ago – business stagnation.

2. The company has had a negative net worth for five year.

3. Turnover has declined for each of the last four years.

4. At December 2008, there were £1.5 million of loans written by BPF with recourse to the group and which will not be recoverable.

5.Computeach has significant levels of long term debt.

At the end of 2008, because of the increasing levels of bad debts and the worsening UK economy, a decision was taken by the Director not to write any new business for the foreseeable future.

SOURCE - Companies House ( and this is only the tip of the iceberg, no doubt Jon Orrit will be looking for another loss leader in the IT industry in six month time).

Jon Orritt is currently the risk manager within Barclay Card group of companies, is he assessing risk or generating a risk to their entire group?

[Mustard2243]

So even if a court rules they got an alternative course in time, and even if they rule that it was not mis sold, and even if they rule that advent was not poor training in the first place.. We now have this ammunition to use i'm not losing anymore sleep over this loan, and i certainly do not feel morally obliged to pay them anything else.

[Lankus]

I've just had my call from OLCI to provide me with information about the course - useless. He couldn't answer any of my questions. Just kept saying, "I'm not the best person to speak to about that. You'll be able to ask at the open day". The course structure is completely different, he didn't know if I'd be recieving a started tool kit. It was basically a waste of time speaking to him. I was coming round to the thought of doing my course with them and giving them the benefit of the doubt, but now i've lost all interest in it. He even said that if I fail anything there'll be a charge to re-take. This was not the deal I signed up for.

[SajstarHero]

I'm so stressed out over the whole situation, its effecting my performance in my job. I'm messing up simple things as all I can think about is the stress of this loan and not wanting to do this course with Computeach. These companies are bad for what they offer and they lie!

 

I've been having so many quarells over this with my wife due to it placing us in a awkward situation as I only earn under £600 a month. I also have a attention disorder which makes doing the course rediculously harder, when I was told full on support will be given. Initially it was not and there is no way that Computach will have that many advisors to cope with the amount of calls and such received.

 

I really hope I'm not stuck now with something I don't have the ability to complete and still paying 5k for nothing. They can just reimburse me what I've not yet received and I will be happy to have the rest deducted. I don't see why this is such a hard thing to do from BPF's point of view. They should just do it and get it over with. If this does go to court then I will be sueing them for stress and grievance this is causing me, doctors and psychiatrists letters to back evidence.

[Nail-em-2-The-Wall]

The same, it's taking it's toll on me now. Every 6 seconds of each day I think about what actually has happened. (To ALL of us) -

 

It gives me a headache I feel powerless and dictated.. There is no way I am doing any '' Computeteach '' fob off.

 

I'm getting serious about court too, cause this just aint fair.

[Mustard2243]

Nail em - Did you read the above article the Financial Ombudsman are doing their job and helping us against the banks.

 

Keep up the fight

[panliberski]

With Computeach now on the scene and BPF's letter, (we've fixed it and you need to start paying), I think the options are running out.

 

My view is that the best way forward is now a joint action against BPF.

 

This was posted recently:

 

 

 

They seem willing and hopefully able and I will also give them a call am to clarify some points.

 

David

 

 

I sent e'mail but received a failure report in return??:confused::confused::confused:

[panliberski]

Can someone post me a template letter I should sent to FOS? can't find it in the whole lot.

[THE ROADIE]

Can someone post me a template letter I should sent to FOS? can't find it in the whole lot.

 

There is word document on here that you fill out and mail/fax/email to FOS mate

[Beedles6]

I posted some questions to Computeach today and here's the reply.....

 

CT reply

I’ll do my best with your questions!

 

You will cover various packages and programmes during the course, DreamWeaver, Flash, Fireworks etc. You learn this in a simulated online environment. i.e. You can log into the software online and learn how to use it, without actually having to purchase it yourself.

 

The workshop days are completely optional. They are there as an additional support measure for those students who need it.

 

We provide you with software that allows you to take practice/mock exams all the way through your programme. Before you go in for your ‘real’ exam you will take an official online mock exam where the results come to ourselves. Should you pass that, we book you in for the real one. We set a passmark of 90% for this, which is higher than you will need for your actual exam. The reason for this is we want you to be totally confident that you will pass when you go in for your exam. Historically we have an 85% first time pass rate. That has increased since we introduced this system.

 

At the end of the 12 months, if you have not completed your studies you can extend your training at that time. You do not have to subscribe for another full 12 months, you would continue on a month to month basis until you have completed it. Obviously we encourage you to maintain your studies so that you don’t pay any more than you need too.

 

If you fail an exam, we don’t cover resits unfortunately. However, with the system we have above, that shouldn’t cause you any problems as we want you to pass first time!

 

With regards to the careers department, we can’t guarantee you an actual job as we are not the company that will be employing you. We can guarantee to get you interviews lined up however.

 

As soon as you have passed the second of the CIW modules, the careers team can start work for you. They work closely with companies all over the UK, companies with whom we have placed students on a regular basis previously. They will look to get you interviews lines up, however it is still your responsibility of course to go along to the interview on time, dress smartly, be polite. I’m sure you know the drill!

 

Before you go however, the careers team can do some work for you. They will give you a mock interview so that you are fully prepared and know the kind of questions you are likely to be asked. They will also help you prepare your cv and be on hand for any advice careers related. Their main aim however is to find job roles for you.

 

Upon completion of your final qualification they can then be looking for a senior web design role for you.

 

They would look for these positions in the area that you specify! We recommend around a 15-20 mile radius.

 

Hope that helps!

 

I'd asked ...

I do have a few questions though please...

 

I can't see anything that lists the web design software packages that are covered for Master CIW Designer (such as Dreamweaver, Photoshop etc). Are these part of the course, and where do they feature?

 

It's unlikely I'll be able to attend workshop days as I work and live in Bristol with family, so taking time off mid-week with overnight stays in Dudley (an added expense), plus taking time off work at my own expense is not an option. Could I still complete the course without doing these modules?

 

What is the pass mark expected? Do we do mock exams first?

 

If you over-run the 12 month contract period do you need to pay more to complete (it says flexible learning at your own pace but how flexible is that?)

 

If you don't pass the expected exam within that period, do you have to pay extra again to re-take exams?

 

What does the job support entail? Does CT guarantee work placements in companies local to your area?

 

 

Many thanks and sorry there are so many questions.

I look forward to hearing further.

 

 

So there you go!

No you have to pay more as you go along on top of what's already been paid to Barclays and you have to pay for re-sits. Advent promised unlimited time and as many goes as you needed to pass your exams.

 

So that's not like for like by any stretch!

 

Did you state that you was an advent student because all they will say is they will honor the terms of the contract with advent thanks.

[iNFAMOUS29]

I just got the Letter today.... So they are going to make me go with Computeach... ummm... Any Idea?, What can I do??

[Matt28LFC]

I got my letter today too. Really not sure what to do for the best. Haven't looked that much into it yet, but it looks like Computeach dont offer as much as Advent did in the way of workshops for MCSE+CCNA not to mention theres no talk of CCNA that i've seen on there website. Which i payed an additional £500 for when i signed up with Advent. So at least surely where entitled to a refund on what we aren't going to recieve as part of this change that appears to be being forced on us.

[iNFAMOUS29]

I just called Barclays and They said that I have no much Choice, I have or to Write a letter to them Saying the Reasons why I don't want the New provider or Stuck the New provider up My A***! anybody have a Draf or a copy of a Complaint letter that I can send To them???