The Way Forward.

[renegotiation]

My take on everything is that the Supreme Court verdict seems to have left the attack on banks looking a little fractured. When we had the OFT to get behind everyone with an interest had a single area in which to concentrate their energies. However, the situation has somewhat changed. It might be preferable for claimants in hardship to go the FOS route, whilst others with small claims might get a victory in the County Court by forcing banks to settle before a hearing on the commercial interest basis. The issue at hand is we need to co-ordinate this attack. I don't know what has happened with Ray Cox QC but I can understand it is difficult to get these things moving. In the mean time, I have drafted a letter which I will send to my bank. My claim is only £35 but would anyone like me to share it on the forum - I would be happy to do so?

TFT

 

Excellent post, especially what I have highlighted in bold. Unfortunately, I don't see any success with the Supreme Court waiting for us at the end of the road. We need to get off our arses and on to the streets. They do want they want to us because they get away with it. It's so obvious. Let's face it, all of these charges need SCRAPPING COMPLETELY. Overdrafts should be subject to a rate of interest only and that needs to be regulated. All the other charges are just fantasies, apart from returned cheques. I often think that if we hadn't let this get so bad we might not be having such a hard fight now. Our government should have sorted this out a long time ago. The people we bloody elected to represent us can do it, but they don't it. I know why.

 

P.S. Yes, I am a really dangerous anarchist dreaming of a fair banking system where I don't get ripped off like a mofo... LMFAO.

Edited January 30, 2010 by renegotiation

[renegotiation]

I read in the hope of learning something. To assume there is nothing in value in an unread piece is the first step to ignorance and intolerance.

 

Ok, well now we have discovered, admittedly through the 'process of your continued reading' in search of enlightenment, that you are bored and annoyed. It would indeed 'now' be bizarre if you kept on reading then. Just my opinion.

 

 

 

I remember how "peaceful marches" have been perceived over the last 40 years. They never succeed. Swamping MP's, judges, bank CEO's etc. with letters would achieve more at lower cost.

 

I think this is something the whole nation can unite on. Even those fortunate enough to avoid these charges can see how truly monstrous they really are. If the protest is big enough it WILL work.

 

 

 

Why cost te taxpayer even more now? Your last sentence is spot on apart from "otherwise"!

 

Because success is worth it. If it looks like there isn't the interest, then I wouldn't be for it. I think the bank charge sites need to lead the campaign. Eventually, they will get an idea of the interest generated.

 

 

 

It's a free country. You keep writing rubbish and I'll keep reading it. I have not yet found it stimulating but I live in hope.

 

Ah, so you concede there is hope then. Good stuff. That's what I like to hear.

 

 

I disagree. What mass protests have been successful? - G8 or G20 protests? the miners' strike? CND?

 

These were not nationwide, mass protests, not even the miners' strike. I'm talking about a real, nationwide, mass protest.

 

 

 

Maybe Yourbank has more sense and like me is focussing on doing things which CAN make a difference by helping other CAGGERs? I won't respond to any of your future points as attention just encourages the immature who seek it.

 

Maybe he does; maybe he don't. I have given my opinion. Helping CAGGER's your way doesn't automatically invalidate my approach and vice versa. I wish you all the best with your methods and am not saying they are completely futile. Good luck to you.

Edited January 30, 2010 by renegotiation

[the_freedom_trail]

TFT

 

This might be a bit too easy for you - if you really want a fight - but I was told by a girl on the HBOS 08457 21 31 41 call centre that they had discretion to refund up to two £35 charges per account holder.

 

Have you had two charges back yet?

 

If not complain that you are being treated less favourably than other customers. Have you thought about FOS - just to rattle their cage and cost them the £400 plus referral fee? Being treated less favourably than other customers should be justification enough.

 

If you are you a male white able bodied christian of normal height and weight (or anything else in any of these options) then you can claim sex/race/disability/religious/etc. discrimination just to rattle them a bit. (might as well have some fun while the fight goes on!).

 

BD

 

I like your style BD. I attempted the phone call a long time ago but got nowhere - I did close my ISA though out of spite. Although, I now get 1.5% more interest with Barclays so that worked out ok. I will write and threaten them with the FOS (I would follow up if needs be ). Fortunately, all my other victories were before the Supreme Court Verdict. I will let you know how I get on

 

TFT

[indebtstudent]

"In my opinion, I find Yourbank not supporting the notion of peaceful protest as very suspicious. I have also seen some of his comments on other threads that make me suspicious. That's my view."

 

Fair enough its a free country, my view is that you are wrong for the reasons I've given. I would add to that by saying what I read wasn't so much refusing to support as contructive criticism, what would the action be for? What is is supposed to achieve.

 

"Well, we certainly agree on that. Who argues it should be higher? I have not heard that one before."

 

Many people on this is money and MSE. One chap on TIM explicitly stated in his view a £1 million bank charge because the market knows best. This is what we are up against.

 

Unfortunately not everyone regards the charges as unfair, in fact many think the status quo is just fine.

 

"Level 1 - High Court - Wrong decision. Keep going!

Level 2 - Court Of Appeal - Wrong decision. Keep going!

Level 3 - Supreme Court - Right decision. Stop the case!

Level 4 - European Court. Not needed!"

 

I agree with the point about not allowing an appeal, and think the OFT was at fault in not taking this further. The banks were refused leave to appeal to the SC but did so anyway. You could hardly argue that this case is not in the public interest.

 

"I know, talk about a snidey circumvention of bank charges - HBOS seem to have pioneered this."

 

They did, and its been so well thought out that thier leader knew absolutely nothing about it when questioned by the treasury select comittee. The curious thing for me about the charges is that it actually makes it worse to have an authorized overdraft.

 

I also really don't follow thier thinking about ignoring people when they say they don't accept the new terms. If this kind of change, in principle, is permitted then there is no reason why they couldn't just change the interest to a huge percentage which means the debt would never decrease.

 

Is there a possible avenue for the Advertising Standards Agency? Or do they just deal with TV ads and the like. On the Halifax website it gives the APR as 0% which is really straining credibility in my view since the equivalent rate for small sums would be a MASSIVE percentage.

 

Surely their actions on this are the very definition of an unfair contract? We can change the rates or terms whenever we see fit and unless you have the money lying around to pay off your overdraft then you have no choice.

 

 

[enamae]

I do find the postings suggesting that Yourbank , because he doesn't support the notion of peaceful protest, has some hidden agenda and that he is most probably a spy for the banks.

 

I also do not believe in peaceful protest because 9 times out of 10 there will usually be some one who starts trouble. Does this make me suspect in my intentions for posting on here?

 

Yourbank has helped countless people over the years and there are a lot of people who would be far worse off if he hadn't bothered.

 

 

enamae

[Bigdebtor]

I do find the postings suggesting that Yourbank , because he doesn't support the notion of peaceful protest, has some hidden agenda and that he is most probably a spy for the banks.

 

I also do not believe in peaceful protest because 9 times out of 10 there will usually be some one who starts trouble. Does this make me suspect in my intentions for posting on here?

 

Yourbank has helped countless people over the years and there are a lot of people who would be far worse off if he hadn't bothered.

 

 

enamae

 

I totally agree. I have never heard of a successful demonstration in the UK. They might succeed in France but they are NOT peaceful.

 

I have tipped your scales (not that you need it!)

 

BD

Edited January 31, 2010 by Bigdebtor
typos

[renegotiation]

Fair enough its a free country, my view is that you are wrong for the reasons I've given. I would add to that by saying what I read wasn't so much refusing to support as contructive criticism, what would the action be for? What is is supposed to achieve.

 

Well, it isn't a free country, but let's not get into that. I have made my view clear on Yourbank and stand by it. It's not just because of this thread. He himself said others didn't like some of his posts. I ddin't know that. He never appeared on the 'March For Fairness' thread either, as I predicted. I already addressed the possible logic behind his actions as being a 'gatekeeper' earlier in the thread. Read through the thread. If we disagree, then we disagree.

 

 

 

Many people on this is money and MSE. One chap on TIM explicitly stated in his view a £1 million bank charge because the market knows best. This is what we are up against. Unfortunately not everyone regards the charges as unfair, in fact many think the status quo is just fine.

 

Can you provide some quotes for me? Just curious.

 

 

 

I agree with the point about not allowing an appeal, and think the OFT was at fault in not taking this further. The banks were refused leave to appeal to the SC but did so anyway. You could hardly argue that this case is not in the public interest.

 

We agree completely.

 

 

 

Is there a possible avenue for the Advertising Standards Agency? Or do they just deal with TV ads and the like. On the Halifax website it gives the APR as 0% which is really straining credibility in my view since the equivalent rate for small sums would be a MASSIVE percentage.

Surely their actions on this are the very definition of an unfair contract? We can change the rates or terms whenever we see fit and unless you have the money lying around to pay off your overdraft then you have no choice.

 

Yes, it's all a complete stitch up. Unfortunately, I think you'll find the A.S.A. about as helpful as the F.O.S..

[renegotiation]

I do find the postings suggesting that Yourbank , because he doesn't support the notion of peaceful protest, has some hidden agenda and that he is most probably a spy for the banks.

 

You are entitled to your opinion. I have given my reasons. Like it would be the first time in human history that someone helped people to cynically gain trust. It's a bit pointless going on about it, as everyone can make up their 'own minds'.

 

 

 

I also do not believe in peaceful protest because 9 times out of 10 there will usually be some one who starts trouble. Does this make me suspect in my intentions for posting on here?

 

I think you'll find that when it comes to legitimate public protests it is often hired goons that kick things off. Our right to peaceful public protest has been steadily and deliberately eroded in the last decade and there isn't much of it left. Anyhow, I am not for one mass protest in one place. I am for protests in every city and town up and down the country. The last thing I want is violence and trouble and don't envisage any. In fact, I would argue that the more of us on the streets means it's more likely the poeace will be kept. Again, people can make up their 'own minds'. Anyhow, just why won't the government sort this big mess out?

 

 

 

Yourbank has helped countless people over the years and there are a lot of people who would be far worse off if he hadn't bothered.

 

That doesn't disprove my opinion of him, as explained earlier in this post.

[renegotiation]

I totally agree. I have never heard of a successful demonstration in the UK. They might succeed in France but they are NOT peaceful.

 

I have tipped your scales (not that you need it!)

 

BD

 

When exactly did we last have a mass, peaceful demonstration in the U.K.? Iraq War wasn't it? That was peaceful and had a million odd people marching in the same place! Ok, that one didn't work because war had already been decided, as we all now know. However, let's get 'many millions' up and down the country peacefully doing the same thing and the government will have to take notice. It's hardly rocket science!

[renegotiation]

After reading this whole thread there is one thing that I do agree with on this thread

 

renegotaition your avater suit's you down to the ground

 

Ok.

 

By the way, a big thank you to everyone for all the other contributions. It is appreciated.

[Its WAR]

What a crap thread.

[Bigdebtor]

If you are talking about the original concept of this thread then I totally agree.

 

If you are talking about the quality of the posts in this thread then I mostly agree.

 

If you are questioning whether this has been an abuse of our right to freedom of expression then I agree on this specific case.

 

If you are suggesting we should fight to the death to keep such rights then I disagree on this specific case.

 

BD

[renegotiation]

What a crap thread.

 

An excellent analysis. All contributions are welcome, both positive and negative.

[renegotiation]

If you are talking about the original concept of this thread then I totally agree.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

 

 

If you are talking about the quality of the posts in this thread then I mostly agree.

 

I would tend to agree about some of the posts somewhat.

 

 

 

If you are questioning whether this has been an abuse of our right to freedom of expression then I agree on this specific case.

 

I disagree with that.

 

 

 

If you are suggesting we should fight to the death to keep such rights then I disagree on this specific case.

 

Where did 'fighting to the death' come into any of this?

 

 

 

I'm getting bored (and annoyed) by this thread

 

You are welcome to keep getting more bored and annoyed if that is what you seek. Don't let me stop you...

[the_freedom_trail]

Hello the_freedom_trail

Please forgive my ignoarnce but what is GOGW as in "Settled in full as GOGW"

 

Hi tedney,

 

a GOGW is a gesture of good will - it is usually waht banks use as a reason for paying out on things like bank charges without admiting liability.

 

Regards,

 

TFT

[tedney]

Hi TFT

Thanks for that, I see now

tedney

[jansus]

You are wrong about Yourbank. Totally wrong.

 

And to comment on him not signing up for a March when he sacrificed his career while trying to help with the cause is insulting to say the least.

[indebtstudent]

"Can you provide some quotes for me? Just curious."

 

Bank charges: Supreme Court hands fees victory to banks | This is Money

 

You want comment number 200 amongst others, this guy also stated

elsewhere that in principle a bank charge of £1 million would be acceptable. This follows logically from his comment that the market will work it out. Given the near collapse of the global financial system I regard sucha position as utterly retarded, but I'll say it again this is what we are up against.

 

I've read your posts and we disagree, maybe you are right maybe somebody did orchestrate this whole sacking thing, including a story in a national newspaper just to get some information and post messages on a forum (which anyone can do if they join). Maybe black is white, or maybe you are seeing a conspiracy where there isn't one.

 

You could be onto something on the court thing, it seems to me, even when I try to be impartial the brakes were put on awfully soon once the 'right' decision had been reached. Trouble is the more conspiracy theories you advance the more crazy you sound.

 

Such a march needs to co-ordinated an undiluted, that would be very hard to achieve IMO.

[renegotiation]

You are wrong about Yourbank. Totally wrong.

 

And to comment on him not signing up for a March when he sacrificed his career while trying to help with the cause is insulting to say the least.

 

You are entitled to your opinion. If you read the thread properly you will see that I have said it isn't just based on his reluctance to support peaceful, public protest. If I am right, then it certainly isn't insulting in the sense you are making out. Let's just agree to disagree. It serves no purpose to go round in circles. Everyone is free to make up their 'own mind'.

Edited February 3, 2010 by renegotiation

[renegotiation]

"Can you provide some quotes for me? Just curious."

 

Bank charges: Supreme Court hands fees victory to banks | This is Money

 

You want comment number 200 amongst others, this guy also stated

elsewhere that in principle a bank charge of £1 million would be acceptable. This follows logically from his comment that the market will work it out. Given the near collapse of the global financial system I regard sucha position as utterly retarded, but I'll say it again this is what we are up against.

 

Well who is this guy? I thought you were talking about industry figures making comments in the mass media. Wires crossed, no problem.

 

 

 

I've read your posts and we disagree, maybe you are right maybe somebody did orchestrate this whole sacking thing, including a story in a national newspaper just to get some information and post messages on a forum (which anyone can do if they join).

 

Oh, where did I specifically say that? He could easily have been recruited at any time after he was sacked.

 

 

 

Maybe black is white, or maybe you are seeing a conspiracy where there isn't one.

 

Conspiracies don't exist you fool! :lol:

 

 

 

You could be onto something on the court thing, it seems to me, even when I try to be impartial the brakes were put on awfully soon once the 'right' decision had been reached.

 

No kidding!

 

 

 

Trouble is the more conspiracy theories you advance the more crazy you sound.

 

For brainless sheeple that would certainly be a pssibility.

 

 

 

Such a march needs to co-ordinated an undiluted, that would be very hard to achieve IMO.

 

It would need to be very well coordinated and supported by all the dissenting sites. It would indeed be terribly hard to achieve. However, if the will is there...

[fergal71]

I am up for anything so what next.... We need to set something up and within the next few months before general election, facebook support, media support, etc etc .....

 

There are enough brains on here to sort this out or do we set up a more proactive site up for the people who are tired of talking.....

 

I am happy to meet up to discuss and plan strategy.... I wish cag would get behind such a scheme as it ha sdone so much good but now it seems to be petering out like a well used candle.... the 1700 or so guests must all be rubbing their hands together... CAG do something about these 1700 get them to join with full details or let them pry elsewhere....

[renegotiation]

Respect to you Fergal. I fear we need site team approval for a chance of success though. They have a massive database of email addresses. They already have media contacts. Same with the other dissenting sites. However, they won't act until the game is concluded, which is fair enough. If we are finally checkmated, which I believe we will be, I hope the site team will jump on board and hook up with the other dissenting sites. It's really scary, but I actually feel folk feel intimidated and unsure about using their right to mass, public, peaceful protest. That isn't democracy!

Edited February 4, 2010 by renegotiation

[renegotiation]

THERE WILL BE NO MASS PAYOUTS. READ, DIGEST, COMPREHEND. I KNOW SO.

 

I am on the side of the poor and downtrodden, in fact I am poor and downtrodden, but for those that doubted me don't say I didn't tell you so. As well as earlier on this thread, and on numerous other threads, I even said so on the evening of 25th November 2009. But then again, what do I know? I'm just an idiot.

Edited February 5, 2010 by renegotiation

[MARTIN3030]

2 posts unapproved.

Decisions that result in action being taken are arrived at for good reasons.

There is nothing to be achieved by members posting third party requests,which is clearly an attempt to bypass permissions.Decisions taken by the site team in relation to individual members accounts are not open for discussion here nor should they expect to have to do so.

Anyone who feels that this should not apply to them,or is asked to post things via a third party,should contact admin at http://[email protected]

Thanks for your understanding.

Edited February 6, 2010 by MARTIN3030

[indebtstudent]

"Oh, where did I specifically say that? He could easily have been recruited at any time after he was sacked."

 

What and told to make thousands of post here and elsewhere helping people? Yeah good argument. I suppose the story in the Independant last year was just a cover?

 

I have no idea what the post from Martin3030 is anout, I must've missed some post or something.

 

BTW isn't there some sort of meeting immenent with MSE, CAG, others and the OFT?