Cant pay at all, debtor's prison next?

[steve4kendal]

Correct.

 

And If you do lose, the judge will only ensure you pay back what you can afford.

 

You really, really, really need to read up on ALL infomation that may affect you.

 

Was the loan sold to you to cover the money you already couldn't afford to pay them? Was the PPI mis-sold, this may bring 'unjust enrichment' into play.

 

Have they got all the correct docs, what happens if they have/haven't?

 

Was the default notice correct?

 

YOU have to know all these answers, not just relying on someone telling you. Read, read and read some more.

 

Good luck

 

Jogs

...............................

Edited April 5, 2010 by steve4kendal

[steve4kendal]

...

Edited February 17, 2010 by steve4kendal

[steve4kendal]

.........................

Edited April 5, 2010 by steve4kendal

[steve4kendal]

..

[MandM]

OK Steve,

 

Have copied below the info for my AQ (N150). I was completing this on the basis that I was still unsure on how I was going to defend. This should help you.

 

___________________________

 

Right, with A you have to say 'Yes' to question 1 to avoid having to answer question 4. It also makes you look better in the eyes of the court.

 

Answer 'yes' to q2, but 'no' to q3 as it involves a fee. q4 can be left blank because you answered 'yes' to q1.

 

B - 'yes' and write 'already transferred to my local court' if it already has been, if not write 'local court because defendant is an individual'.

 

C - 'no' and write 'Please see attached Section C

 

On a separate piece of paper, type this, and head it Section C

 

This case is not covered by any approved pre-action protocol. I have requested the claimant provide information, but to date the claimant has not provided the documents I require to investigate this claim.

 

D - Case management information

 

What amount of the claim is in dispute - fill in the full amount

 

Applications - No

 

Witnesses - Enter your own name, and "All" to 'witness to which facts'.

 

Experts - No to first question - leave the rest blank

 

Track - Fast Track (as claim is over £5,000) - Leave the other box blank as Fast Track is normal (Assuming that the amount of the claim is over £5,000 - I am assuming it is as we have an N150 and not an N149)

 

E - 2 hours

 

F - 'yes' and then 'no'. We will work these out later.

 

G - Leave blank unless you have a solicitor - I am assuming you don't

 

H - No (not payable by defendant)

 

I - Yes to the first two questions, leave blank, applications 'no', in the big box write 'Please see attached Section I'.

 

We will then work out the extra parts. Don't sign anything yet as you'll want to send an unsigned copy to the Sols.

 

 

Here are some suggested directions and other information. They are amended from the pt2537 thread. Also, there has not been an assignment to a third party, so there can be no deed or notice of assignment.

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order file and serve the following:

 

* Copies of the Credit Agreement/s referred to in the Particulars of Claim, and any documents referred to within it which complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended, which the claimant seeks to rely upon. The original documents must be brought to the hearing.

 

* Copies of the Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended, which the claimant seeks to rely upon

 

* Copies of all statements for the duration of the alleged agreement, used to establish a balance on the alleged account and the balance on the Particulars of Claim

 

* Copies of all information regarding the PPI sold relating to this/these account/s

 

* Copies of any other document to be relied upon

 

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

The defendant thereafter shall file and serve and amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant.

 

 

 

 

Section I - Other Information

 

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

Without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as non-production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case.

 

1. To be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237). Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is an unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt, but would also give rise to a potential counterclaim for damages where damage occurs to my credit rating (Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society - [1996] 4 All ER 119)

 

2. I also respectfully request that the claimant be ordered to produce statements covering the entire duration of the alleged agreement. These documents are necessary to establish the balance on the alleged account, to establish the percentage of the balance caused by unfair terms under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 at the time of termination, and to establish whether or not the defendant is indeed indebted to the claimant to any degree.

 

This is a relatively straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

 

Therefore it stands to reason that these documents must be disclosed before this case can progress any further.

[steve4kendal]

Ok, so should I copy (with amended specifics), your draft order and additional info more or less word for word? What happens next? I need to amend my defence because it was that Lloyds had never supplied paperwortk and I didnt know what they were claiming. Now that I do, should I notif ythat I wish to withdraw that defence when I submit the aq Thurday morn? Time is of the essence now.

[MandM]

In the draft order for directions it makes the point The defendant thereafter shall file and serve an amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant.

Change my directions above to make sure it asks for anything they have not yet supplied. Once you have this info from them, you will submit a defence based on what they send you. Your initial defence will be of little relevance now.

 

M

[diddydicky]

In the draft order for directions it makes the point The defendant thereafter shall file and serve an amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant.

Change my directions above to make sure it asks for anything they have not yet supplied. Once you have this info from them, you will submit a defence based on what they send you. Your initial defence will be of little relevance now.

 

M

 

as an aside M & M , do you know if the exhibit topsheets are stapled to the exbhibits or just loose on top

 

 

dick

[MandM]

as an aside M & M , do you know if the exhibit topsheets are stapled to the exbhibits or just loose on top

 

 

dick

 

I staple the whole lot as a bundle. If it's beyond staples then it's one of those 'paper fasteners' or 'treasury tags'. As long as you don't put it in a plastic wallet or the like it's fine (as I did, and got told off lol)

 

M

[steve4kendal]

...

[MandM]

Do you have enough info here now S4K ?

 

M

[steve4kendal]

making a start now

[steve4kendal]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Edited April 5, 2010 by steve4kendal

[MandM]

For amount of claim in dispute, I dont have the exact figure because I retuned all the original summons papers to Northampton. Can I just put "the full amount"?

 

Full amount as POC Should do if needs be. Alternative is to call the court and ask them if they'll oblige and give you the figure. If so, drop a note into 'Other Information' - Just a short statement noting that the figure used in the AQ is as advised verbally by the court on 18th Feb at **time**. Just to cover your butt

 

M

[MandM]

 

Also, what do I do for section I and what do I send copies of to the claimant?

 

Fill Section I out on the form

I - Yes to the first two questions, leave blank, applications 'no', in the big box write 'Please see attached Section I'.

 

Then separate piece of paper - type>>>>>>

 

Section I - Other Information

 

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

Without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as non-production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case.

 

1. To be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237). Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is an unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt, but would also give rise to a potential counterclaim for damages where damage occurs to my credit rating (Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society - [1996] 4 All ER 119)

 

2. I also respectfully request that the claimant be ordered to produce statements covering the entire duration of the alleged agreement. These documents are necessary to establish the balance on the alleged account, to establish the percentage of the balance caused by unfair terms under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 at the time of termination, and to establish whether or not the defendant is indeed indebted to the claimant to any degree.

 

This is a relatively straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

 

Therefore it stands to reason that these documents must be disclosed before this case can progress any further.

 

And Head Both Pages

 

In the XXXXXX County Court

Claim Number XXXXX

 

Between

 

 

XXXXXXX - Claimant

 

and

 

XXXXXXXX - Defendant

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

DEFENCE

 

----------------------------------------------------

[MandM]

I WILL log on a few times in the morning at work. So don't panic if I don't answer tonight. Post up anything you don't understand.

 

No one ever tells you this next bit >>>>> Remember to press refresh every now and then....or 'F5' on the keyboard. Keeps you up with the posts

 

M

[steve4kendal]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Edited April 5, 2010 by steve4kendal

[MandM]

Given that, should I be adding to my directions that I require all the information that LLoyds took off me at the time of the loan, because their response to my complaint about the PPI selling was that I understood the benefits and that they were suitable?

 

I see no harm in adding it.

 

With their copy, post it a day later and send it 2nd class as they're probably waiting to see yours so they can fit theirs to suit. Will make theirs a few days late getting to court lol. Of little consequence apart from making them look slow..

 

M

[MandM]

OK S4K, that's that bit done.

 

Next - I would have a read through your own thread and put a timeline up of what's happened to date i.e.

 

1st Jan 10 - recieved summons from Northampton (post 12)

 

5th Jan 10 - Sent CPR requests for information (post 21)

 

etc etc etc

 

Do this on a seperate page so you can keep it updated, every now and then post it up so others reading your thread can get up to speed quickly.

 

In the meantime, don't wait to hear from the court - assume that you will have to stand in court and defend at some point - read read read!!!

 

Use the search facility to find cases similar to your own, post up questions for whatever you need answers to, but DO NOT WAIT for things to happen! Start posting up any ideas for your defence - they're a knowledgeable bunch on here and if you're going down the wrong route at any point then someone will most likely tell you so.

 

The worst that could come of this is that you lose in court and get a CCJ - it's not Alcatraz - and you get to pay it off at a rate you can afford.

 

I know very little about mis-sold loans, but you're in the right place to find out all about it . PPI is a bit easier to deal with.

 

Well done for getting this far Steve btw.

 

M

[steve4kendal]

.................

Edited April 5, 2010 by steve4kendal
punctuation etc

[MandM]

The SAR should give you copies of ALL data held on you by them. Sometimes it comes in stages. Barclaycard sent ours in 4 seperate lumps. If you hear nothing else in a few days (or, if you want to do it anyway) write and remind them that they have not yet fulfilled your request and that the 40 days clock is still ticking.

 

M

[the_shadow]

Today arrived the fruits of my £10 SAR. Its just a summary of my bank charges but strangely only starts from 2001 and finishes at Sept 2008 which is before my troubles started. I once before paid them £10 for a list of charges and then they sent back a sheaf of illegible photocopies. Am I being a bit thick here? I thought the SAR would provide other useful information to help win the court case. I'm not interested in trying to get get bank charges refunded to my defaulted bank account. Have they goofed or have I?

 

You need to write back to them and state they have not completed the SAR and you will be making a complaint to the ICO unless they give you the requested information on you that they hold within say 14 days.

 

S.

[steve4kendal]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Edited April 5, 2010 by steve4kendal

[steve4kendal]

.....

 

....

Edited March 28, 2010 by citizenB
merging 2 posts that contribute nothing to thread

[steve4kendal]

Thats funny, now that I actually have a court date, the advice has mysteriously dried up

 

....

 

Bump, this is fairly urgent now

Edited March 28, 2010 by citizenB
merging bumped posts to keep thread tidy