False accusations after complaining - ** WON **

[elpulpo]

Admitedly, no, Ms J didn't resend the appeal, but I think,considering how big a pillock this guy has previously been, Pippadeee, that an ET might well accept that she submited the grievance.

I don't think that Ms J has got anything to lose now by submitting the ET1. If it comes to a conflict of evidence, I think the respondant will be on the back foot. The respondants conduct in this matter has been so outlandish that I think that a CA is a very likely outcome.

[Ms_J]

I have just looked through all of my paper work and notes and I did re-send the greivance. I added it in with another letter I sent him, I think it was possibly the one about the clients key. I have misplaced my diary with all the info about what was sent and when.

[jackieandwayne]

I wonder if Epulpo could expand a little more on what being under the DDA actually means? In the OH person's report he stated "she has (in my opinion) rights under the DDA but as you know this is a legal determination and not a medical one". The employer coloured up a bit when that section was being mentioned, but I don't know much about it, so if someone could explain, I think this would help Ms J later on as well.

 

And, Ms J, this depression - I should take this tack with it:: I am a very emotionally strong person, look at the way I've dealt with my depression so well for the last three years (backed up by your GP of course). Now I am right back to square one because of someone's threatening and frightening behaviour towards me and my employers failure to protect me from a very real threat to my safety in the workplace - and I am not pleased! And from now on, everyone you speak to this is what you say to them.

 

Let me tell you a true story - after reading your description of this creature you had to work with - it reminded me - years ago in Local Authority I worked with someone just like that. She knew better than to start on me, I was more useful (she thought) as an ally. Anyway, you know what happened to her? She died a slow and painful death and at a very early age. Of course, we wouldn't wish that on anyone, but this person was positively evil and caused serious distress to many female members of staff. I can recall telling her that one day she would pay a price for her behaviour - and she laughed at me! God will pay debts (or whoever happens to up there!) without money, of that you can be sure.

 

Have you thought about doing some agency work in the meantime? You can control the hours you work then, and will after a while be able to use them as a reference.

 

Keep staying strong, its a long old road, but if you keep feeling angry and dig your heels in over this then I think this time next year things will start to look very rosy for you! Just keep thinking that everytime you scroe a point its a good old slap in the face for him, and eventually he will have to blame this female!

[honeybee13]

Hi J&W and Ms_J. Elpulpo is often out during the day, so I thought I'd give you a bit of an answer. I'm sure he'll pop up later - can't stay away, can you Pulpo?

 

The Disability Discrimination Act covers any illness or condition, including medically recognised mental illnesses and learning difficulties. To come under the act, your condition needs to have lasted for 12 months or more, or be expected to last 12 months or more.

 

Anyone who qualifies under the Act has protection under equality and human rights legislation.

 

The Direct.gov website has a section on Disablity, and some of the charity websites as well, if you want a bit of light reading....

 

HB x

[elpulpo]

Well, The DDA defines a disabled person as someone who has a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his or her ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

Having a history of Clinical Depression is covered by this, as I understand it. (being a sufferer myself)

Ms J is in the position of having been subjected to a substantial episode of harrassment at work - being shouted at, criticised etc. She complained about this behaviour, which was disregarded, and then was left in a position where her GP signed off sick from work with stress.

She submitted a grievance, that was ignored, and was then accused of misconduct whilst still signed off from work - which, IMO, is an extremely unreasonable way to behave towards someone in her position.

It seems apparant, in fact, that these accusations were nothing other than false and were designed to victimise her. The fact that the employer continued to pursue these accusations in her absence, and even when she had tendered her resignation, points towards this.

I feel that she has strong grounds to make an application to ET with a claim of constructive dismissal on the grounds of unlawful disability discrimination, and should seek the advice of an employment law specialist.

[Ms_J]

I wonder if Epulpo could expand a little more on what being under the DDA actually means? In the OH person's report he stated "she has (in my opinion) rights under the DDA but as you know this is a legal determination and not a medical one". The employer coloured up a bit when that section was being mentioned, but I don't know much about it, so if someone could explain, I think this would help Ms J later on as well.

I will speak to my solcitor about the DDA.

 

And, Ms J, this depression - I should take this tack with it:: I am a very emotionally strong person, look at the way I've dealt with my depression so well for the last three years (backed up by your GP of course). Now I am right back to square one because of someone's threatening and frightening behaviour towards me and my employers failure to protect me from a very real threat to my safety in the workplace - and I am not pleased! And from now on, everyone you speak to this is what you say to them.

This is excellent and have just used it whilst on the phone to someone!

 

Let me tell you a true story - after reading your description of this creature you had to work with - it reminded me - years ago in Local Authority I worked with someone just like that. She knew better than to start on me, I was more useful (she thought) as an ally. Anyway, you know what happened to her? She died a slow and painful death and at a very early age. Of course, we wouldn't wish that on anyone, but this person was positively evil and caused serious distress to many female members of staff. I can recall telling her that one day she would pay a price for her behaviour - and she laughed at me! God will pay debts (or whoever happens to up there!) without money, of that you can be sure.

I am a firm believer in karma! This person has nothing of value, all she has is material things but they are due to her having snared a man with money! They could vanish in the blink of an eye.

I have been to hell and back since Nov but I am still here to tell the tale not because I live in a big house and drive a fancy car, but due to the fact that I have fantastic people behind me to keep me going!!

 

Have you thought about doing some agency work in the meantime? You can control the hours you work then, and will after a while be able to use them as a reference.

I have just emailed my CV to a few agencies!

 

Keep staying strong, its a long old road, but if you keep feeling angry and dig your heels in over this then I think this time next year things will start to look very rosy for you! Just keep thinking that everytime you scroe a point its a good old slap in the face for him, and eventually he will have to blame this female!

I will try my very best. I want this man to pay for his actions and I want the satisfaction of knowing that I am causing him a headache!

[Ms_J]

Well, The DDA defines a disabled person as someone who has a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his or her ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

Having a history of Clinical Depression is covered by this, as I understand it. (being a sufferer myself)

Ms J is in the position of having been subjected to a substantial episode of harrassment at work - being shouted at, criticised etc. She complained about this behaviour, which was disregarded, and then was left in a position where her GP signed off sick from work with stress.

She submitted a grievance, that was ignored, and was then accused of misconduct whilst still signed off from work - which, IMO, is an extremely unreasonable way to behave towards someone in her position.

It seems apparant, in fact, that these accusations were nothing other than false and were designed to victimise her. The fact that the employer continued to pursue these accusations in her absence, and even when she had tendered her resignation, points towards this.

I feel that she has strong grounds to make an application to ET with a claim of constructive dismissal on the grounds of unlawful disability discrimination, and should seek the advice of an employment law specialist.

 

This intrests me and I am going to speak to solicitor about it.

 

I was feeling stressed at the end of Oct, took a Thu and Fri off as A/L to give me a long weekend as I had been doing lots of overtime. I was called on the Fri and and asked to work on the Sun with the MD to sort out invoices. At the time I felt I was being punished as he was not impressed that I had taken two days A/L, he made it clear to the manager.

I was never paid for working that day either!

I guess that should have told me all I needed to know!

[Bigredbus]

Well, The DDA defines a disabled person as someone who has a physical or mental impairment that has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his or her ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

Having a history of Clinical Depression is covered by this, as I understand it. (being a sufferer myself)

Ms J is in the position of having been subjected to a substantial episode of harrassment at work - being shouted at, criticised etc. She complained about this behaviour, which was disregarded, and then was left in a position where her GP signed off sick from work with stress.

She submitted a grievance, that was ignored, and was then accused of misconduct whilst still signed off from work - which, IMO, is an extremely unreasonable way to behave towards someone in her position.

It seems apparant, in fact, that these accusations were nothing other than false and were designed to victimise her. The fact that the employer continued to pursue these accusations in her absence, and even when she had tendered her resignation, points towards this.

I feel that she has strong grounds to make an application to ET with a claim of constructive dismissal on the grounds of unlawful disability discrimination, and should seek the advice of an employment law specialist.

 

This is a rather interesting point 'elpulpo'... how did you come to this conclusion?

[elpulpo]

Er, pardon me being flippant, BRB, but by reading Ms J's posts and seeing how she's been treated?!

I don't really get your question. Were you being sarcastic?

[Bigredbus]

Far from me the idea about sarcasm... no intentions of being sarcastic, and I am sorry if my post seemed as such.

 

Just trying to understand how you came to the conclusion that she could have a claim... on the grounds of... disability discrimination... which test did you apply?

[honeybee13]

Hi BRB, Elpulpo and Ms_J. J, I hope you don't mind this brain-storming on your thread!

 

A quick search on google for 'Depression' and 'Discriminated against' brings up quite a few UK posts that say long term depression, as I said earlier [i think it was on this thread], if it has lasted 12 months or is expected to, is classed as a disability. Technically, an employer is supposed to make the necessary adaptations at work.

 

Of course, many employers and HR departments don't view mental health problems as a disability and often have no idea how to deal with it. After all, we just need to pull ourselves together, innit?

 

I think Elpulpo has a point, and this is certainly worth discussing with Ms_J's lawyer.

 

I only recently noticed that CAG has a disablility forum; I wonder if it's worth asking on there?

 

My best to all, HB

[Ms_J]

I am working on the ET1 form and I am exhausted! It is hard going.

I have tried to keep it factual and as exact as possible but it is not easy. Any hints or tips would be greatly appreciated.

I spoke to the solicitor earlier and wasn't too impressed, he is going to write to MD about my Manager and see how he gets on and then decide what to do about me!?!

I think I might have to go it alone, I can't be bothered hanging around waiting while the clock is ticking.

[elpulpo]

Far from me the idea about sarcasm... no intentions of being sarcastic, and I am sorry if my post seemed as such.

 

Just trying to understand how you came to the conclusion that she could have a claim... on the grounds of... disability discrimination... which test did you apply?

My apologies then, BRB. Your question just seemed odd, because I think the facts here are quite clear.

 

The test I'd apply here is that which, I understand, an ET would apply -

 

1) Does this person have a disability? I'd say undoubtedly so.

 

2) Has this person been subjected to discrimination? Yes.

Shouted at and harassed to the point where she was signed off from work by her GP.

All attempts to express a grievance effectively ignored.

Then subjected to an extremely dubious disciplinary process whilst still signed off, culminating in her dismissal when she'd already given her resignation. That served no purpose other than to be vindictive, IMO. Completely unreasonable behaviour by any standard.

Very likely to, and probably intentionally intended to, actively exacerbate her emotional state.

Even were this behaviour pursued towards someone in good health, I'd say the employer completely failed in their duty of care.

[elpulpo]

I am working on the ET1 form and I am exhausted! It is hard going.

I have tried to keep it factual and as exact as possible but it is not easy. Any hints or tips would be greatly appreciated.

I spoke to the solicitor earlier and wasn't too impressed, he is going to write to MD about my Manager and see how he gets on and then decide what to do about me!?!

I think I might have to go it alone, I can't be bothered hanging around waiting while the clock is ticking.

The key is to keep it factual, concentrate on what they've done wrong and the effect that has had upon you.

If you can fix up an initial meeting with a few solicitors, without it costing you, then you might get a wider view. Emphasise the problems you've had emotionally because of the way you've been treated, and that you suffer from depression. A lot of solicitors are idle sods, you have to wave the money in front of their noses.

[Ms_J]

The key is to keep it factual, concentrate on what they've done wrong and the effect that has had upon you.

If you can fix up an initial meeting with a few solicitors, without it costing you, then you might get a wider view. Emphasise the problems you've had emotionally because of the way you've been treated, and that you suffer from depression. A lot of solicitors are idle sods, you have to wave the money in front of their noses.

 

Ta, Elpulpo.

I think it is going to take quite a while to get it right, I am now adding and removing bits.

I will try to see a few solicitors but it is not easy getting an employment one who does a free consultation up here.

I will stress the depression thing to solicitors and see what comes of that.

[elpulpo]

Ta, Elpulpo.

I think it is going to take quite a while to get it right, I am now adding and removing bits.

I will try to see a few solicitors but it is not easy getting an employment one who does a free consultation up here.

I will stress the depression thing to solicitors and see what comes of that.

Ah. Yes. Scotland. I forgot.

[Ms_J]

Ah. Yes. Scotland. I forgot.

 

Ah. Yes. Scots don't like to give much away for free!

[elpulpo]

You're talking to a Jewish Yorkshireman:D.

[Ms_J]

lol

[honeybee13]

Elpulpo, is it true that a Yorkshireman is a Scotsman stripped of his generosity? [My father was born in Yorkshire.]

[elpulpo]

Elpulpo, is it true that a Yorkshireman is a Scotsman stripped of his generosity? [My father was born in Yorkshire.]

Yep.

[Ms_J]

Hi guys. I am looking for some advice....Again!

I have been shortlisted for an interview for a job that I would be ideal and I have all of the relevent experience/skills etc. I am worried about what to say when it comes to my reason for leaving my last job. I really would like to give myself a good chance of getting this job and don't want that to let me down.

[elpulpo]

I'd just tell the truth, Ms J.

You weren't happy with the conduct of the management towards you, so you decided to resign. I wouldn't offer anything more than that, unless they really pressure you.

Best not to say that you're considering taking them to ET, that often doesn't go down to well, as you can imagine.

[Ms_J]

I'd just tell the truth, Ms J.

You weren't happy with the conduct of the management towards you, so you decided to resign. I wouldn't offer anything more than that, unless they really pressure you.

Best not to say that you're considering taking them to ET, that often doesn't go down to well, as you can imagine.

 

I can imagine....Nobody wants a troublemaker working for them!

I can get a reference from someone in the company so hopefully my reason for leaving is taken at face value and it's left alone!

[Ms_J]

I have had to start again with my ET1 form, it is like a full time job!

Should I include the fact that I know the letter informing me of my dismissal was prepared by the MD and not the chairman? Also, I am 99.9% sure that it has been signed by his girlfriend although I can't prove this unless I can obtain his signature in some way. Should I leave this out?