False accusations after complaining - ** WON **

[Ms_J]

Thanks, Brb.

It is unfortunate that we have to put up with these people!

I hope that we do get some satisfaction from it! My Manager has landed herself a fantastic new job, so they did actually do her a favour in the end!

No doubt I will still be looking for advice!

[honeybee13]

I'm pleased to hear that Ms J, fingers crossed for you. It's good about your manager. HB x

[Ms_J]

I'm pleased to hear that Ms J, fingers crossed for you. It's good about your manager. HB x

 

Thanks, HB.

 

Hopefully things will get resolved quickly?! And then I can move on!

Jx

[honeybee13]

I understand. Moving on is the important thing. Good luck to you. HB x

[Ms_J]

I am off to see the solicitor tomorrow and I have a question....Do any of you guys think that there is any point in solicitor sending a letter asking him to pay up some cash?! I think it is a waste of time and feel that the ET1 would be better. I think that letters flying back and forward is just going to delay things.

Any suggestions?

[Bigredbus]

Hi 'Ms J'... nice to see you around...

 

a) good thing that the solicitor is attempting to settle the matter out of court... I suppose that he has the Compromise Agreement in mind...

 

b) if they refuse... off you go to ET1...

 

This is done to show that you have attempted to settle the matter out of court... If they are too stubborn to refuse, then it is in court that the matter will be settled... at least you, also, know that you have now a way to redress...

Edited March 18, 2010 by Bigredbus
Typo...

[Ms_J]

Ah, I didn't think of it like that! I was too busy rushing ahead as usual!

 

Thank you, Brb:)

[Bigredbus]

No problems 'Ms J'...

[Ms_J]

Hi guys. A quick question.

The bully is now officially in charge! Will this strengthen our case any?

[elpulpo]

Was it formally stated that her role was temporary as a consultant?

[Ms_J]

It was.

[elpulpo]

Not sure if it would have any particular significance.

The employer could always argue that they didn't anticipate that someone coming in and treating the existing employees like absolute sh*te would have the effect of forcing them out of their jobs. They just didn't see it coming, therefore this person ended up staying on.

[Ms_J]

I guess so but we were constantly assured that they had another job to go to and would only be there for 5 weeks! I do have this is writing too.

[elpulpo]

It's worth mentioning, but I don't think it'd be a case turner.

Sorry, I was being a bit flippant in my last post, but basically I meant that they'll probably just argue that circumstances changed and so this bully stayed on after all.

[Ms_J]

It's ok, Elpulpo. I know what you mean, it's just so annoying when we know that she was sent in to get rid of manager and I think I had to go too as I was clearly not going to be her puppet!

Solicitor going to write asking for 2 weeks wages and compensation for me. He is thinking a total of £1500.

Do you think this is about right?

[honeybee13]

Hi Ms_J, I'm pleased the lawyer is sounding positive. I hope the idiot gets what he deserves.

 

I don't know enough to comment on the compensation, sorry.

 

My best, HB

[Ms_J]

Hi HB, thank you.

 

I hope he does too!

 

Jx

[elpulpo]

Are you happy with that? I don't know what your position is now, or how much you're owed.

The ET route is a long old slog. Fair enough if you're gettting on with your life, but if moving on is dependant on this being resolved then it can really get dragged out.

Even if you get the ET decision, you've still to enforce any award made, and when you're dealing with a pillock of this guys calibre, that can take just as long again.

Apart from anything, I'd be looking for an agreed reference, so they don't come back to haunt you if a potential employer were to contact them.

 

It comes down to how you want to settle it. If he's a small business, you can give him a headache for several months, and 3/4K in legal fees whatever happens. From how you've described him, I think I know what type this guy is - a bit of an Alan Partridge? It will really bug him facing an ET, people like that just can't bear to be proved wrong, that's why he acted like such a pratt even when you'd given your notice.

I reckon it'd go right up until the day before an ET hearing and then he'd settle with a confidentiality clause.

[Ms_J]

I have to admit that I think it is a little on the low side. I am unable to work at the moment due to the depression, brought on by his actions! That is the thing that is really getting to me!

 

He is a pillock and "a bit of an Alan Partridge" is spot on.

 

I do want it resolved and to feel satisfied that I have done what I could to clear my name.

Anything that will cause him to be out of pocket is good.....A meaner man I have never met!

[elpulpo]

If you'd left this job and walked into something else, and were now in pretty much the same financial situation you were before, then I'd say let it go.

Given the damage that's obviously been caused, I'd say fight it. If you're happy with what a solicitor manages to settle early on, then fair enough, but don't be fobbed off into settling if you're not happy.

At the same time, don't let this become the focal point of your life in the coming months, where everything in the immediate future is based around the outcome of an ET. I'm not saying that you don't have a good case, but all the other aspects of your life have to go on too.

I'm fond of a saying, and it's taken me 39 years next Friday to realise this-

'Success doesn't bring happiness, happiness brings success'.

Do what ya have to do now to recover from how this nebbish treated you, don't rely on the ET to do that, but resolve that perhaps you'll walk into the ET in several months time, looking good and happy, and watch the guy squirm.

[Ms_J]

Thank you, Elpulpo for your very wise words!

I won't be fobbed off but at the same time, I will not be silly!

 

I am trying to move on and looking into my options for the future, I am thinking it will be back to college for me.

 

I am certainly not going to give anyone the satisfaction of thinking that they have beaten me and if it does go to ET, I WILL walk in looking good and feeling happy....I had to do it at court last month and I will do it bigger and better if it comes to it again!

 

I don't know where that came from but I hope it lasts!

[pippadeee]

Whatever amount you ask for its usual for them to come back first with some insulting, paltry amount...and then the bartering will start. If you're lucky he'll agree to settle and not haggle (or much) but in his case I can't see that happening and he'll dig his heels in, push his luck, try to wear you down so you just give in and drop it or take a token amount.

 

A couple of things to consider if he does this-

 

1) Any "negotiating" over settlement amounts can basically be a case of playing a game of chicken. Until you're happy with whatever amount is offered don't give in. At worst, even if you're really wanting to avoid a tribunal, hold out to the bitter end. Its amazing how many stubborn ex employers will start to panic like hell in the days leading up to court and do end up settling the eve before the tribunal day.

 

When rejecting any offer that may be made that you aren't happy with, sending back a message via lawyers on the lines of "I'd rather take my chances in court because I wish to clear my name and, win or lose the case, I'm still free to speak to the media to tell my side of the story" is a powerful and effective message to send back.

 

2) What's the "worth" of a confidentiality agreement in financial terms to your ex employer? In terms of cost, wasted man hours dealing with tribunal stuff and negative publicity and/or being known as a bad and unlawful employer? That is what he should be thinking about.

 

In respect to you - if you are going to agree to a settlement and subsequently be gagged forever more by a confidentiality agreement the incentive to do so should match accordingly ie an amount which compensates for the fact that you do not get your day in court, don't get the chance to formally clear your name in court and are no longer allowed to discuss (defend yourself or diss them for it) your ex employer and your side of the story and what actually happened?

 

If your solicitor thinks £1500 is a fair amount then use that as a guide as to what you might be awarded if it goes to tribunal. You could try for more and if they offer less and in due course agree to £1500 then you've got your money. They will definitely offer less than you suggest though so definitely start higher than the amount you'd be happy to settle for is my advice.

 

 

Just a point too about getting an agreed reference incorporated into any confidentiality agreement. Whilst that clause covers what your ex employer will put in a reference if one is ever requested, it does NOT cover what an ex employee of that company (now or in the future) may say about you. Loose tongues and malicious tittle tattle behind the scenes can be a far bigger problem than a formal reference ever may be.

 

And a confidentiality agreement does not protect you from this! If you're ever faced with such a situation whereby a prospective empoyer hears something negative about you (unofficially) the problem you have (assuming you get to even know about it) is that, because of the confidentiality agreement, you can't discuss it so how do you defend yourself in those circumstances? I've been there, and I can tell you it's horrendous.

 

So again, stick to your guns for a settlement that you feel would adequately compensate you. Anything less than that, from my own experiences, I assure you is NOT worth signing any confidentiality agreement for.

[pippadeee]

PS- in terms of working out an amount you'd be happy to settle for - obviously there is the figure for wages and notice pay you didn't receive but also to be taken into consideration is the fact that you were forced to leave your job and with no job to go to so an additional amount to reflect loss of income whilst inbetween jobs could reasonably be considered and asked for too.

 

I'd at least be asking for the wages and notice pay you should have got and didn't plus an additional amount equivalent to a month's gross salary. I'd try for that at the least, and I wouldn't sign away my rights in any agreement for less. Infact personally speaking, I wouldn't ever sign one again, not unless they added a zero onto the settlement amount the next time.

[Ms_J]

Thank you, pippadeee.

I have no desire for an agreed reference, I know that it would be worthless with him!

 

I have been discussing this with my OH and we are both of the opinion that the confidentiality agreement aspect of things would alter the situation. I am not willing to be gagged for what would essentially be peanuts.

 

Thanks again for your input, you have given me lots to consider!

[Bigredbus]

Excellent... 'Ms J'... it's gathering momentum...