False accusations after complaining - ** WON **

[elpulpo]

What's happened, Ms J?

[Ms_J]

The letters that I signed for and that I have been accused of stealing/hiding were regarding an earnings arrestment for myself. I did sign for letters but did not open them, I left them (unopened) on the MDs desk as they were addressed to payroll, which I did not deal with, he did.

These accusations came about the day after I raised my grievance. He has stated that he spoke to me and I admitted taking the letters....This is a blatant lie.

I have received a letter from the court saying that I have to attend as the arrestment has not been implemented and the MD is accusing me of stealing the letters.

[elpulpo]

Right. The important thing here is to keep calm. This guy is clearly a very nasty piece of work. Can your manager vouch for the fact that you merely signed for the mail? He's gonna get himself into serious bother if he starts falsely making criminal allegations.

[honeybee13]

Good points, Elpulpo. I guess Ms J is worrying about how she proves she didn't open the letter when it's his word against hers. But as you've said a few times, the proof for a court is much more rigourous than in employment law.

 

This man seems to have no scruples. I musn't swear on the forum, but words fail me.

 

Where's Perry Mason when you need him?

[pippadeee]

Re the letter from a court - in respect to civil or criminal proceedings?

 

I'm a little confused.

 

If criminal proceedings have the police been in touch with you to interview about the matter first as part of any investigation, or tried to?

 

If civil proceedings I don't understand why you have received a court summons without being informed first that proceedings have been started and giving you 28 days to reply with your side of things?

[Ms_J]

I have an ex-colleague who would vouch for me as would my manager but I am unsure if that would be of any help.

I really am worried about this, I feel that this man will not stop until he has done serious damage.

 

Pippadeee, I am guessing that it is civil. There has been no police involvement. Surely if I had done this and he had spoken to me about it and I admitted it, I would have been suspended or instantly dismissed?

 

The arrestment would put in place by the court, they want to know why no money has been received and the MD has said it is because of me.

[elpulpo]

So, if mail was delivered to work addressed to him, you signed for it, but didn't then pass it on to him - how did he know it existed in the first place?

How can one know that someone's stealing mail?

[honeybee13]

Ms J and the others, I apologise if I've misunderstood, but who is the letter about attending court from, please? I'm confused.

[Ms_J]

A letter arrived from the court, manager left it on his desk. I did not see the letter but I can only guess that it was asking why no money has been deducted and he has phoned the court and tried to put the blame on me. I don't know this for sure. I rang the court when these accusation first came about and the woman was very unhelpful, just stated that MD said I had taken the letters and he had met with me and I admitted it.

She also told me that I should have made sure the money was being deducted from my wages?!

[pippadeee]

I have an ex-colleague who would vouch for me as would my manager but I am unsure if that would be of any help.

I really am worried about this, I feel that this man will not stop until he has done serious damage.

 

Pippadeee, I am guessing that it is civil. There has been no police involvement. Surely if I had done this and he had spoken to me about it and I admitted it, I would have been suspended or instantly dismissed?

 

The arrestment would put in place by the court, they want to know why no money has been received and the MD has said it is because of me.

 

I've just read your post on the other forum so it makes more sense now.

 

Basically the court sent an arrestment letter to your employer, you signed for it, left it with your MD unopened and, when the arrestment order wasn't implemented, the court has contacted your employer who said it wasn't implemented because he never received it and because you had "stolen" it to supposedly prevent it from being implemented?

 

He's so obviously trying to make your life a misery in any way he possibly can and has jumped at the chance to cause problems for you re the arrestment order when the chance has unfortunately made itself available for him to do so.

 

When the court contacted him, regardless of the circumstances to do with the first missing arrestment, has he advised them to re-send it so it can be implemented? You aren't at work now so can hardly "steal" it a second time can you.

 

You need to find out the date that the court contacted him. You know the date you signed for it originally obviously. Do you know the date he was contacted about it by the court? Does this date coincide with the date he first accused you of not giving the arrestment letter to him? If it does not then, as already stated by the previous poster, how would he know it had gone astray before the court contacted him about it?

[Ms_J]

Ms J and the others, I apologise if I've misunderstood, but who is the letter about attending court from, please? I'm confused.

 

The letter is from the court. On the top it states company name V my name.

[honeybee13]

Sorry, I just noticed that you received the letter from the court, didn't read an earlier post properly.

 

Forgive me for being thick, can the court just free him of all responsibility for not making the deductions and transfer the problem to you just like that? No investigation, just he says something as a reflex reaction and they agree?

[honeybee13]

Hi. Our last posts crossed. So his company is taking action against you.

 

Does it say anything else about the case?

[Ms_J]

That is correct, sorry for not being very clear. I can't think straight!

 

The last letter that I know about was delivered around about 10th or 11th December. He advised me on 11/12/09 that I would have an arrestment on my Dec wages.

The court advised that they spoke to him on the 11th and he told them that I had admitted to stealing the letters.

 

I know that the person who bullied me took a phone call from someone regarding my wage arrestment and emailed the MD the details to call this person back. This was mid November. I saw the email in the outbox.

 

I went off sick on 15th Dec, raised a grievance and hand delivered it to the office that same night.

The accusations were made on 16th or 17th Dec.

He has informed me by letter today that he has not received my grievance letter!

 

I hope this makes sense!

 

 

 

I've just read your post on the other forum so it makes more sense now.

 

Basically the court sent an arrestment letter to your employer, you signed for it, left it with your MD unopened and, when the arrestment order wasn't implemented, the court has contacted your employer who said it wasn't implemented because he never received it and because you had "stolen" it to supposedly prevent it from being implemented?

 

He's so obviously trying to make your life a misery in any way he possibly can and has jumped at the chance to cause problems for you re the arrestment order when the chance has unfortunately made itself available for him to do so.

 

When the court contacted him, regardless of the circumstances to do with the first missing arrestment, has he advised them to re-send it so it can be implemented? You aren't at work now so can hardly "steal" it a second time can you.

 

You need to find out the date that the court contacted him. You know the date you signed for it originally obviously. Do you know the date he was contacted about it by the court? Does this date coincide with the date he first accused you of not giving the arrestment letter to him? If it does not then, as already stated by the previous poster, how would he know it had gone astray before the court contacted him about it?

[honeybee13]

Sorry if this is repetition, the old brain is struggling a bit.

 

Do you have any of this in writing?

[Ms_J]

Hi. Our last posts crossed. So his company is taking action against you.

 

Does it say anything else about the case?

 

It states that a copy of an interlocutor is enclosed and I have to attend the hearing or further action may be taken against me.

 

It is to find out why the arrestment order has not been implemented.

[Ms_J]

Sorry if this is repetition, the old brain is struggling a bit.

 

Do you have any of this in writing?

 

All I have in writing is the accusations that he has made.

[pippadeee]

Ok. Two separate issues which, because of the arrestment order and your employers actions, have become interlinked.

 

1) Re the court and arrestment order hearing - on Monday morning try to go see someone in Citizens advice to assist you with that side of things. Aside from anything else, your earnings right now have reduced and potentially to zero until your pay issue is resolved and/or you're in employment again if you leave.

 

You haven't been at work since 15th December so, if your employer still has not implemented the arrestment order when queried by the court, the blame for that lies solely with your employer. He was by then, without any doubt, aware of it, still hasn't implemented it and you personally cannot force an employer to do so. Your employer has told lies to the court and making unfounded allegations against you, harassing you to the point it made you ill and subsequently unable to work you have been off sick with work related stress, and still the harassment continues. Thats what you tell Citizens Advice, and at the hearing if it comes to it.

 

Also go see your GP again and explain the latest developments and the effect it is having on you. Get it logged with your GP.

 

 

2) Which grievance is your employer claiming not to have received? I thought a grievance hearing was set for the same day as the disciplinary?

 

3) On Monday you should also ring the ACAS helpline for advice. Before you do make a brief note of what you want to ask them so its clear in your head before you call.

 

4) Before any disciplinary is held, there should have been an investigatory meeting first. I don't believe your employer did that? Also, whilst a grievance and disciplinary can be held at the same time, the grievance should be heard first, not held after the disciplinary.

 

 

Sorry, I know you aren't thinking straight right now - I know what its like so understand what you're going through but if you can provide a concise timeline of events (to do with the arrestment, to do with accusations/disciplinary and the grievance) it would be of great help.

[Ms_J]

Ok. Two separate issues which, because of the arrestment order and your employers actions, have become interlinked.

 

1) Re the court and arrestment order hearing - on Monday morning try to go see someone in Citizens advice to assist you with that side of things. Aside from anything else, your earnings right now have reduced and potentially to zero until your pay issue is resolved and/or you're in employment again if you leave.

 

You haven't been at work since 15th December so, if your employer still has not implemented the arrestment order when queried by the court, the blame for that lies solely with your employer. He was by then, without any doubt, aware of it, still hasn't implemented it and you personally cannot force an employer to do so. Your employer has told lies to the court and making unfounded allegations against you, harassing you to the point it made you ill and subsequently unable to work you have been off sick with work related stress, and still the harassment continues. Thats what you tell Citizens Advice, and at the hearing if it comes to it.

 

Also go see your GP again and explain the latest developments and the effect it is having on you. Get it logged with your GP.

 

 

2) Which grievance is your employer claiming not to have received? I thought a grievance hearing was set for the same day as the disciplinary?

 

3) On Monday you should also ring the ACAS helpline for advice. Before you do make a brief note of what you want to ask them so its clear in your head before you call.

 

4) Before any disciplinary is held, there should have been an investigatory meeting first. I don't believe your employer did that? Also, whilst a grievance and disciplinary can be held at the same time, the grievance should be heard first, not held after the disciplinary.

 

 

Sorry, I know you aren't thinking straight right now - I know what its like so understand what you're going through but if you can provide a concise timeline of events (to do with the arrestment, to do with accusations/disciplinary and the grievance) it would be of great help.

 

Thanks, pippadeee.

He has provided me with proof that I signed for 2 letters, I have just checked the dates and they are for july and August.

 

1) I will got to CAB on Monday and make an appointment to see a solicitor. I will also go back to my GP.

There was money taken off my wages for the arrestment in Dec.

 

2) It was my manager that had the greivance and then disciplinary meeting arranged. I have only ever been told to attend a disciplinary.

 

3) I rang ACAS today and the man wasn't very helpful. He said that I would have to attend a disciplinary even though I have resigned due to me being in my notice period. The disciplinary hearing is going to take place on Thursday regardless. I have been given the option of sending a rep or doing it by phone.

 

4) No investigatory meeting took place. I did ask about this in an email to the MD, I did not receive any answer to this part of my email.

[pippadeee]

I've just been wading through your earlier posts to get things and timelines clear in my head.

 

Re the arrestment, if this is now in place what's the point of the hearing? You're hardly going to sign for something relating to you then not pass it on are you? If you were going to do something like that then a person of a mind to do something like that would probably sign it in anyone's name but their own and illegibly.

 

I'll leave it to CAB to advise you how best to handle that side of it however.

 

 

Re your employer - I didn't know you had actually resigned. When did you resign, what did you say in the letter?

 

Have you re-sent the original grievance to him? And what did you say in that grievance?

 

 

On the face of it, your employer has not followed correct procedures in respect to the disciplinary process. They haven't held any sort of investigatory meeting with you first. They didn't give any notice of the first disciplinary meeting, infact I believe they only informed you of it when claiming later in the day that you failed to attend one scheduled first thing that day? Is that right?

 

Hard as it may be to go, you should go to that disciplinary meeting on Thursday.

 

1) If you haven't re-sent that original grievance to him you need to do so on Monday AND this time by special delivery.

 

2) Include a second grievance letter to that of later events you wish to be included in the original grievance, including the fact that no investigatory meeting was ever held (or suggested) with you, you raised this fact with the MD on xx date and he ignored you etc.

 

3) Include in that letter a request for copies to be provided of a copy of your employment contract and terms and conditions of your employment, the company's formal grievance policy, absence policy and its disciplinary policy to be provided to you (and if they have not done so, evidence of the accusations against you) . That they have not, and if they still do not, is a point in your favour so ask and hopefully they'll hang themselves a little more by not providing you with these.

 

 

If they dismiss you on Thursday you may be in a strong position with respect to unfair/ wrongful dismissal. If they do not follow correct procedures the dismissal can be automatically unfair. It sounds as though they have not followed them so the more you can assist them to hang themselves by messing up even more, the better.

 

Ideally you need someone there with you. Anyone you can ask? They only need be there as a note taker on your behalf.

Edited January 16, 2010 by pippadeee

[Ms_J]

Thanks for all your help, it is much appreciated.

 

I said the same thing earlier, I could have just signed with a squiggle. Plus the fact that I loved my job and would never have done anything to jepordise it.

 

I have not yet re-sent the original grievance. I will do as you suggest and send it with another letter with more issues I wish to add.

 

I wasn't informed of the first disciplinary, I recieved an email later that day telling me I had failed to attend and then a day or two later I received the letter telling me to attend.

 

Will asking for and them providing a copy of my contract etc not put them in a stronger position?

I don't actually have a contract for this job!

 

I am really not sure if I can bring myself to attend on Thursday. I feel sick just thinking about it. It is now to be chaired by the partner of the bully as he owns another franchise and is familiar with company policies and procedures.

I can't really think of anyone I could ask to attend with me.

[elpulpo]

I don't think you shoiuld attend the disciplinary, Ms J.

 

I don't think you should ask for the contract, D&G's either. For exactly the reason you stated above.

[Ms_J]

I don't think you shoiuld attend the disciplinary, Ms J.

 

I don't think you should ask for the contract, D&G's either. For exactly the reason you stated above.

 

Thanks, elpulpo. I really don't think I can attend. I am going to go back to my GP as I really am struggling to cope now and think the depression may be creeping back in. I would kill for a full nights sleep and to be able to think straight!

 

The letter from employer did not state that my resignation had been accepted which leads me to believe that he wants me in on Thu to sack me.

[pippadeee]

Yes you have a contract, they just have failed to provide you with a copy of it. That's another "crime" they've committed because they should have done.

 

In your favour right now (tell this to ACAS) -

 

No copy of contract ever provided.

No investigation or investigatory meeting held or even suggested.

No written warning or notice of the disciplinary meeting, infact only a claim after the event that you didn't attend it.

No copy of disciplinary policy/procedure provided.

No sight of all evidence intended to be used against you provided. (for all three allegations)

They should have mentioned in any disciplinary invite letter the possible sanctions.

 

Re the allegations themselves (tell this to ACAS too)

 

1) That you were AWOL - incorrect. Your partner called them (have you a copy of your phone bill with the time/date of the call on, or can you get it?), you also sent them an email (got a copy of that?) Then any other discussions later on the subject you may have had, sick notes etc.

 

2) Failure to attend a disciplinary - incorrect. You received no notification of it, written or otherwise, until accused AFTER the supposed event. If they happen to present any proof that they did send something, they did so without providing any notice at all.

 

3) Re the "signed for" third accusation- incorrect. Proof of signature is not proof of failing to pass letters on. We've already touched upon the point of doing something like signing for something in your own signature etc.

 

The first two parts are nonsensical and can be disproved. Had a reasonable employer investigated first these would have discounted at that stage as you obviously were innocent of these two claims. That leaves the third one which, again, they haven't even investigated first, and seem to be pathetically grasping at straws with.

[Ms_J]

Yes you have a contract, they just have failed to provide you with a copy of it. That's another "crime" they've committed because they should have done.

 

In your favour right now (tell this to ACAS) -

 

No copy of contract ever provided.

No investigation or investigatory meeting held or even suggested.

No written warning or notice of the disciplinary meeting, infact only a claim after the event that you didn't attend it.

No copy of disciplinary policy/procedure provided.

No sight of all evidence intended to be used against you provided. (for all three allegations)

They should have mentioned in any disciplinary invite letter the possible sanctions.

 

Re the allegations themselves (tell this to ACAS too)

 

1) That you were AWOL - incorrect. Your partner called them (have you a copy of your phone bill with the time/date of the call on, or can you get it?), you also sent them an email (got a copy of that?) Then any other discussions later on the subject you may have had, sick notes etc.

 

2) Failure to attend a disciplinary - incorrect. You received no notification of it, written or otherwise, until accused AFTER the supposed event. If they happen to present any proof that they did send something, they did so without providing any notice at all.

 

3) Re the "signed for" third accusation- incorrect. Proof of signature is not proof of failing to pass letters on. We've already touched upon the point of doing something like signing for something in your own signature etc.

 

The first two parts are nonsensical and can be disproved. Had a reasonable employer investigated first these would have discounted at that stage as you obviously were innocent of these two claims. That leaves the third one which, again, they haven't even investigated first, and seem to be pathetically grasping at straws with.

 

I have kept everything that has been sent and received. I can provide a bill with the telephone call made by my partner.

 

On the disciplinary hearing letters it states that if the allegation is proven it will be classed as gross misconduct and my employment could be summarily terminated. In the same letter he states that I have already admitted to signing for and stealing the letters and also that I wanted to make payment and any back log that should have been paid.

This is probably why he has deducted half of my salary in December. I have just re-read the letters and it is now falling into place!