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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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what should I do now - if anything


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Received a letter today, which I shall endeavour to scan and post later on, but I do have a question.

 

Where do you guys do all your research? I'm very grateful for all the assistance I receive, but sometimes I'd like to find stuff myself, then run it by CAGs for opinions. I know there's a lot of info on the various threads but there's simply too many to go through in detail, and it must be tiresome for you guys to keep repeating the same advice to various people like myself.

 

Is there somewhere in particular that's good for researching everything?

 

Many thanks

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I'm a googler too :p

 

Tend to look on here and the likes of MSE first before checking legislation on the 'regulated' sites such as direct.gov or justice.gov sites

 

Theres a mine of info out there and sometimes you find what you need by tripping over it in a search.

 

Gez

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At least on here, you can get advice from others who have actually been through similar situations and come out the other end.

 

It's very interesting sometimes when you get a letter and go to post it up on your thread and you find that the same letter has gone out to several other Caggers, at the same time

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Thanks everyone. This is their latest letter, I'm reasonably sure it's a standard letter. Although they didn't enclose the OFT leaflet they refer to.

 

I don't plan to respond to it at this stage, as I'm still awaiting the response to the SAR and I'd prefer there not to be two lots of correspondence going. Any comments anyone?

 

capone24Feb01.jpg

 

capone24Feb02.jpg

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Hi Flooz

 

Its a bodged Default notice, doesnt appear compliant........ the giveaway is the line including the text 'TAKEN BY THE DATE SHOWN'

 

They should show a date of remedy above but they've stated 'within 28 days' in the hope that if they ever go for enforcement they'll get a friendly judge who will treat this as de minimis.

 

Keep the envelope for this one and date it to remind yourself when received.

 

They'll terminate soon and probably pass to a muppet DCA but you have the benefit of having this in dispute so its a big no no if they assign it

 

Gez

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Hi Flooz,

 

Yes similar to mine except I broke clause 4 due to going over the limit (except it was only over because they added unlawful charges and interest)!

 

Although a DN usually stipulates a specific date to remedy by, they give 28 days so that is acceptable. It's their cop out because they aren't capable of working out the 14 days.

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I have exactly the same from Cap One giving me 28 days. I have not put it in dispute yet as there are doubts re. enforceability of my agreement from 2006.

 

Having read other threads here I was under the impression that the County Court would virtually always side with the OC even if the DN is technically incorrect.

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I have exactly the same from Cap One giving me 28 days. I have not put it in dispute yet as there are doubts re. enforceability of my agreement from 2006.

 

Having read other threads here I was under the impression that the County Court would virtually always side with the OC even if the DN is technically incorrect.

 

one of the reasons that the court seems to "side" with the OC is because the solicitor or barrister acting for them puts a professional presentation of their arguments and sometimes the LIP struggles

 

not usually being as conversant with the CCA as they perhaps should be it is human nature for them to think that the oppositions argument is more sound

 

the judge has to be "directed" and therefore the LIP needs to be sure of his ground and the relevant legislation that he/she wants the judge to rule upon

 

there really is very little room for error in a DN so if the case for rejecting it is put properly the judge would have little room for manoeuvre even if he is personally biaised- and would also give grounds for appeal if he can be shown to have mis directed himself or not taken proper account of the governing legislation or higher court precedents

 

IMO

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Have retrieved envelope from bin ;-) - no date on it though.

 

At this point (I hope you all agree) I see no point in responding to the letter, as I'm still awaiting response to the SAR. I'm counting the 40 days from when the cheque was cashed (which I feel is very generous, as they must have had the letter several days prior to that). They have approximately 7-8 working days left......

 

I shall endeavour to research further over the weekend, as long as I'm blessed with some spare time.

 

You have no idea how much encouragement you lot are giving me. :-)

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Hi John, thanks for posting. I'm still waiting a response from my SAR, posted on 10 January (unfortunately, not signed for) so being the generous person I am, I'm only counting the 40 days from the date the cheque was shown as cashed on my bank statement, which was 2nd February, although they must have had the cheque many days/weeks before that.

 

Therefore, I've still a little more time before they are 'out of time'. They wasted some, requesting a further signature, as the one on the letter didn't match they one they had 'on file' (I am simply not happy sending something without a signature), hindsight is a wonderful thing though . No doubt there's a possibility they could say they 'never received the 2nd letter' - the one explaining why they don't need a signature. But we'll see. :-)

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The don't need your signature Laura - there's a template letter in the library, which I used as the basis for my letter to them. :-) I don't know how it all works at the moment, but from what I do understand I wouldn't think the lack of a signature would mean they don't have to comply, especially if they have used the funds which you sent.

 

If I'm wrong, I'm sure there'll be someone that can point you/us in the right direction. :-)

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The don't need your signature Laura - there's a template letter in the library, which I used as the basis for my letter to them. :-) I don't know how it all works at the moment, but from what I do understand I wouldn't think the lack of a signature would mean they don't have to comply, especially if they have used the funds which you sent.

 

If I'm wrong, I'm sure there'll be someone that can point you/us in the right direction. :-)

 

 

Heres the link http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/572-debt-letter-when-company-refuse-cca-due-to-no-signature-

 

Gez

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They don`t need a signature for the CCA that`s true but what I`m getting at we gave them one and still acting silly buggers and saying it`s not what they have on file

 

Can't be you thats signed the application they're witholding then :rolleyes:

 

Gez

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Reply received now to my SAR, they've cashed the cheque, haven't sent any of the information requested, just this response....

 

CapOne1MarA.jpg

 

 

 

CapOne1MarB.jpg

 

They are obviously insisting that they've sent the agreement to us, I posted their previous responses and the document(s) they sent, and the general consensus was they've sent a signed copy of the application form, and some T&C's which may or may not relate to the account.

 

I'm not sure how to proceed. I guess a response pointing out what they HAVE actually sent (which does not appear to be an enforceable agreement); clarification of what constitutes as 'reasonable' contact regarding the telephone calls, and also point out that as they've cashed my cheque, surely they have a duty to provide the remainder of the information I've requested.

 

Somehow, I'd like to get them to see that the quicker they start admitting the truth, then the quicker we can come to an amicable settlement. I'm beginning to feel a bit helpless in it all though :-(

 

Also, received on the same day, another 'notice of sums in arrears' - standard letter I guess, and something I've got to get used to.

 

Any advice on how to take the next step please?

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They don`t need a signature for the CCA that`s true but what I`m getting at we gave them one and still acting silly buggers and saying it`s not what they have on file

 

Dear sirs

 

FTAO (the signature of the letter)

 

i refer to your letter of XXXXXXXXXXX

 

there is no requirement in any event for a request made under s78 for the request to be signed.

 

there is no doubt that you are satisfied as to my identity having been in correspondence and sent confidential information to me on a regular basis to this address

 

You are now in default of your obligations under s78 of the consumer credit act and will remain so until you fully comply

 

You are being deliberately obstructive and I have no doubt that this will be the cause of some amusement amongst your colleagues.

 

I am confident that in the event that i need to show this correspondence to a judge he will take the same view of your actions as i do.

 

Kindly do not correspond with me any further with regard to disingenuous concerns as to my signature

 

Y F

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Flooz, keep smiling :)

 

Don't let them get you down, I know been there. DD has posted a suitable response for you.

 

Just think about them receiving all the letters from Caggers and the fuss in their office thinking what to send out next to us, oh shame.:D

 

Feel sorry for the staff sometimes, but not for long!

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Thanks for your support everyone.

 

Dotty - I think DD's letter's for Laura, I went through that stage with them already, they're now not complying with the SAR (despite cashing the cheque), saying they've already sent the agreement to me, which is fully enforceable. They sent a copy of a signed application and some general T&C's, but none of the other information requested in the SAR.

 

Just don't know what my next move should be.

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