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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
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    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
    • well post it here as a text in a the msg reply half of it is blanked out. dx  
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Do clampers have to be a member of the BPA


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The reason i ask is my daughter got clamped and the signage and reciept (amongst other things) dont adhere with the BPA code of pratice.

 

If a company doesn't belong to this association is there another code they must adhere to?

 

This is the company

BSG SECURITY LIMITED

 

I've looked on the BPA website and i cant see them on there

 

Any help please as you only get 7 days to lodge an appeal

 

Regards

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The reason i ask is my daughter got clamped and the signage and reciept (amongst other things) dont adhere with the BPA code of pratice.

 

If a company doesn't belong to this association is there another code they must adhere to?

Have a read of the clamping guide. Some aspects of immobilisaton are governed by The Private Security Industry Act, the rest by case law.

 

The BPA has no authority at all.

 

This is the company

BSG SECURITY LIMITED

 

I've looked on the BPA website and i cant see them on there

 

Any help please as you only get 7 days to lodge an appeal

 

Regards

You don't have 7 days. You have 6 years in which to make a claim in the County Court for any amount paid.
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Hi,

yes i read the clamping guide, and also posted there.

Although the BPA has no authority, it sets guidelines for the clampers to adhere to, so the clampers don't have to stick to these guidelines then?

 

Oh well i'll fire off a letter tomorrow outlining why i think they should pay the money back and then when they refuse i'll come back here to pick some brains for the court case.

 

cheers

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Hi,

yes i read the clamping guide, and also posted there.

Although the BPA has no authority, it sets guidelines for the clampers to adhere to, so the clampers don't have to stick to these guidelines then?

The BPA only has a voluntary code of practice and is not independent. They have absolutely no power over clampers.

 

The SIA is the primary authority of licensing individuals and firms but are pretty much toothless when it comes to taking action. Other enforcement agencies you can use over various aspects if you think there is a problem with clamping include Trading Standards, the Police and also the courts.

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This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm.

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So all the stuff in the clamping guide about size of signs and what should be on the receipt is pointless then?

 

Damn there goes my appeal!

 

Could you point me to the relevant part of the SIA that deals with clampers.

 

The guy that took the clamp off admitted that he didn't put it on, so how am i meant to find out if the 'clamper' who fitted it holds a frontline license?

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Even if a BPA member goes against their guidelines, they won't do anything about it whatsoever.

 

It's merely a marketing tool to enable the [problematic] to put a logo on their threatening paperwork to add the illusion of credence.

 

Any help please as you only get 7 days to lodge an appeal

 

There is no appeals process - as if a clamping firm will refund people. You have 6 years to bring county court action, which is the only way you're going to get your money back. Even then, concentrate on the landowner as the clampers probably have 10 or 20 CCJs as it is.

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My advice would be to get evidence now.... go back with a camera and take some pics of the area and the signs.

 

The PPCs who have bothered to fight court cases have lost because of the signs not being prominent. You'll need photos to help with this one. Also the signs that are there now could change so the sooner the better!

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I took some photos today. one of the signs is behind a stairwell that goes up to some flats, a couple of others are between 90 and 103 inches from ground to bottom of sign. there are none at the entrance and the phone numbers on signs and reciept are mobiles and premium rate numbers.

 

It says in the clamping guidelines one number, especially on the receipt, must be a landline. But then again if there are no guidelines for them to adhere to, what does it matter! I thought the idea of the SIA was to regulate the business, not just the people who clamp.

 

So is there nothing anywhere which says about certain standards the firms must uphold?

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I took some photos today. one of the signs is behind a stairwell that goes up to some flats, a couple of others are between 90 and 103 inches from ground to bottom of sign. there are none at the entrance and the phone numbers on signs and reciept are mobiles and premium rate numbers.

 

It says in the clamping guidelines one number, especially on the receipt, must be a landline. But then again if there are no guidelines for them to adhere to, what does it matter! I thought the idea of the SIA was to regulate the business, not just the people who clamp.

 

So is there nothing anywhere which says about certain standards the firms must uphold?

You are right there is little formal regulation of the industry. There is no single body that you can take a complaint to. Different breaches are dealt with by different enforcement agencies. These could include the SIA, Trading Standards, the Police and Companies House.

 

Case law (namely Arthur vs Anker and Vine vs LBC Waltham Forrest) largely dictates how the industry is run. Remember that case law is as binding as statute law until statute law is introduced or amended to over-ride it.

 

The PSI act adds some regulation to the industry but falls short of anything really useful. The receipt requirements are listed as conditions of being licensed by the SIA under the PSI Act and regulations (See section 6). The guide quotes from them. You should report any breaches to the SIA. If you can find any breaches it will add weight to any civil case. You can use it to question the business practices in court.

 

You might want to consider looking at the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading regulations 2008 (CPUT). Any potential breaches there should be reported to local trading standards.

 

If you've been threatened when clamped you should make a complaint to the police.

 

With regard to the SIA the whole peice of legislation relating to clamping is a shambles. The powers that be had an opportunity to outlaw clamping permanently. Instead we got yet another un-elected body to regulate some of the people in the industry. There is no question that some undesirables have been prevented from joining the industry because of a criminal record. However the SIA have been remarkably slow to enforce breaches of the act and ususally have only done so when someone else has initiated criminal proceedings (e.g. the police) for some other matter. Largely it is something of a toothless dog.

 

If the company that clamps you is a limited company you might want to check out some of the requirements under the Companies Act, financial status (use webcheck at Companies House). A limited company must include various things (such as registered office address) on any paperwork. Again breaches of any act goes towards the character and conduct of the clamping company in any civil case.

 

As indicated any action you take should be against the landowner and the clamper in conjunction. Before any court action you should attempt to resolve the issue. (Write a letter before action).

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I've got the name and address of the landowner, i'm just writing to the clamping company now.

I can't see them volunteering the nature of the relationship between themselves though, so i guess this would be under pre action protocols then?

 

For it to be a valid arrangement would they need to show that the landowner actually receives some money from BSG for damages for trespass?

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you don't need to worry about the arrangement between the two of them at this stage.

 

Write to both with your appeal, then the LBA and then issue court proceedings against both. If the landowner believes that they are not responsbile for their land, the onus will be on them to provide this to the court and you in their reply to defence

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Well i just tried to send a recorded delivery to the address on the receipt, but surprise surprise its just mailboxes. Just about to send it to the registered company address.

The registered company address is one you should send all correspondence to, especially if you are sueing them. It is a legal requirement (Companies Act) for a Limited Company to have an address to which all correspondence can be sent to.

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This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm.

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I've sent it to the registered company address now, although it still wasn't coming up as BSG on the Post office computer.

 

It was something accountants or associates, couldn't really hear her.

 

I gave them 14 days to reply, although they probably wont, which will look better for me if it goes to court.

 

I'm going to compose a letter over the weekend to the landowners and enclose a copy that i sent to the clampers.

 

John

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I've sent it to the registered company address now, although it still wasn't coming up as BSG on the Post office computer.

 

It was something accountants or associates, couldn't really hear her.

 

I gave them 14 days to reply, although they probably wont, which will look better for me if it goes to court.

 

I'm going to compose a letter over the weekend to the landowners and enclose a copy that i sent to the clampers.

 

John

If could be they are using their accountants office as the registered address. If this is the case then they are likely to be paying for the privilege.

 

However if it is sent back as "not known at this address" then you should report the company to compliance section of Companies House as they are in breach of the Companies act.

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This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm.

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I've sent it to the registered company address now, although it still wasn't coming up as BSG on the Post office computer.

 

It was something accountants or associates, couldn't really hear her.

 

I own a Ltd company and also use my accountant's address as my registered office. It is quite common and perfectly legal.

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it took my clampers about a week to collect my appeal from the post office according to the recorded post... When I sent the court papers online to the registered address / accountants they acknowledged the same day they would have received them. The accountants probably faxed them over

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Thats fine as long as i get a yay or a nay off of them

 

*EDIT*

Why do you use that, don't you want anyone contacting you??

 

because it is far easier allowing him to deal with any of the companies house legal bits (which he does for me anyway) rather than me have to worry about whether I have fully complied with business requirements like company name plates on property etc. I do put my home address and phone numbers on letterheads etc which I use as my "operating address" so no, it has nothing to do with hiding from anybody.

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