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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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GMAC Customers read this


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Hi jayjayhants

 

We are all at the early stages on this so no template letters available yet.

 

Look at the template letters used by the 'Bank Charges Refund' group elsewhere on the forum, and adapt those. Remember the first point of call is the FOS for complainants rather than the Court. Refer in your letter to the points raised by the FSA (search the FSA website for GMAC press release or judgement).

But first establish what your complaint is and quantify the amount claimed (dont forget that the ERC should be calculated on the outstanding mortgage only and not include arrears and charges;))

Regards

 

on*the*case

 

Never Give Up! Never Surrender!

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Hi jayjaypants.

As for the fine to GMAC, i think you might not have any option accepting the offer on the basis of the first findings with the FSA. (Go to the FSA site and search for 'GMAC fine', that will give you an idea of what the findings are from the FSA including the breakdown of the charges they are paying out)

My £70.00+ has been added to my account as from last week. As for the other fees, ie arrears £50 fee, DD unpaid fee, and all other various fees that will be a different story.

As in the last message you will have to adapt the template for claiming bank charges to the mortgage fees etc. I have actually added the ERC

with Kensington Mortgages because i already have my statements so lets see what they come out with.

You should send a Subject Access Request to GMAC to see what fees they have already added to your account. £10.00 cost in which you will get back.

Search for Templates and you will get the information of how to write the letters.

Finally, According to GMAC and as of 31st October all arrears fees (£50.00) have stopped with them working with the FSA findings....

 

Good Luck.

Mcintosh44

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hi macintosh thanks for ure advice............have received an offer of 290.52 now its time for me to have them by the short and curlies!!! going to demand every penny they have taken plus interest...the fact they have stopped the 50.00 monthly fee as from 31st october means it was illegal and so shud be refunded in full...like the banks with their charges,gmac will not want this matter tested in a court room. they will hope that most except their unfair offer and then deal with the likes of us later...gmac are a bent outfit they have been found guilty of overcharging which in laymens terms is ripping people off. now its time for them to be hit where it hurts most in the pocket!!!!:D

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Ive been sent a letter saying that I am entitled to £113.00, on a mortgage redeemed over 3 years ago.... I had to phone them and confirm my identity and they said they will be sending out the cheque within 30 days... can I accept this and chase them for any extra unfair charges at a later date or have I basically made a boo boo by accepting this offer???

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I did the same i had to accept the "crumbs" they offered they told me @30 days for the cheque i think we have to wait for template letter to claim back the charges im gonna wait for my check then send ask for a breakdown of my previous account

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Hi peeps.

 

I have been offered £444 ish. I am OK with this as i shall eventually be pursuing the other charges. I have two points to raise if i may.

 

1. If anybody accepts their offer but is not satified with it, make sure you accept it unconditionally.

 

2. For the purpose of ease and cost, you might find it better to simply ask for a breakdown of charges, rather than a full SAR.

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had my offer and must say feel as if I have been kicked in the teeth with their generous offer of £69.12. I dont know what to spend it all on:mad: I will accept it but want the rest of what they owe me.

 

That insulting offer has made me more determined!!!

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have emailed a firm called jsk claims and am awaiting their response...they seem to be good at claiming money back and their charge of 10% isnt to bad either...i would advise on not responding until the situation as to if the refund is unconditional becomes clear...u dont want to except an offer in full and final settlment because u wont be able to make anymore claims against them in the future...

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have emailed a firm called jsk claims and am awaiting their response...they seem to be good at claiming money back and their charge of 10% isnt to bad either...i would advise on not responding until the situation as to if the refund is unconditional becomes clear...u dont want to except an offer in full and final settlment because u wont be able to make anymore claims against them in the future...

 

i calculated 1350 in charges based on £50 each month from 31 12 04

and 405 from the same dates to 31 3 07 for non dd

havent touched on 2003 and 2008

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It seems you may have rattled their cage :) not surprised considering the mauling they were given by the FSA.

 

I haven't heard anything yet from GMAC, but still a week to go.

 

Keep us posted on your progress.

Regards

 

on*the*case

 

Never Give Up! Never Surrender!

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It seem very pertinent to note that during the FSA investigation, they expressly identified 46,000 mortgagors who were victims of GMAC's conduct. Having so identified 46,000 mortgagors, whose names and addresses will be known to both the FSA and GMAC it would be interesting to find out if any of those identified persons have actually received any money from GMAC by way of refund. Point is that the FSA announcement identified 46,000 customers and calculated £7.7 million of overcharges. So why not just send them people the money? They know which accounts, why not just credit each of the respective borrower's accounts?

 

Personally, I think this whole FSA announcement is nothing more than a PR campaign to attempt to gain public confidence in the FSA. My reason for this opinion is because horses bolting and stable doors spring to mind. GMAC have scarpered. They looted the British public and scurried back to the USA a long time ago. So what if they've been fined etc., it means squat to us British consumers. Question is have they actually paid the fine? GMAC are defunct in the UK now anyway and have been so for quite sometime. Interesting that the FSA haven't fined any of the other GMAC style loan sharks that are still operating in the UK.

Edited by wonderman
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Hi wonderman

 

GMAC are still operating, managing the ongoing loan book, though they have withdrawn from lending.

The FSA does have clout, though it seems sometimes reluctant to use it. Regarding any ongoing investigation into Capstone, the timescale is 3-6 months, so dont really expect any announcements until the New Year.

Regards

 

on*the*case

 

Never Give Up! Never Surrender!

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Hi All

Just had this offer letter through from Gmac, had completely forgot about this old payed up account and not sent a Subject Access Request or anything, there letter seems to be backing up what we have all be saying for a long time, what does anyone think? gmac offer picture by sellyservice - Photobucket

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Hi All

Just had this offer letter through from Gmac, had completely forgot about this old payed up account and not sent a Subject Access Request or anything, there letter seems to be backing up what we have all be saying for a long time, what does anyone think? gmac offer picture by sellyservice - Photobucket

 

Its a start :)

 

.....then chase them for the rest that they have stolen from you :-x

Regards

 

on*the*case

 

Never Give Up! Never Surrender!

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Hi

do i take this money or tell them to stick this low amount, they took me to court and made my life hell, think i will get them tell what all the charges were on the account and get them to explain how they come to this amount..

 

Make certain that the offer is not conditional. Then request a full statement of all charges and payments, sight of all third party invoices, a proper redemption statement, then send your SAR. Calculate what is due, dont forget the interest, send your demand to GMAC. When they decline to refund, send your complaint to the FOS.

 

Good Luck

Regards

 

on*the*case

 

Never Give Up! Never Surrender!

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how do we make certain that the offer is not conditional, do we just ask this when we contact them to accept offer? I know this sounds a bit of a daft question, but want to make sure I don't make any mistakes

 

The first thing is ask, 'Is the offer conditional'?

Then on receipt of the letter check if it says anything like; 'this offer is conditional on', 'or acceptance of this offer....further claims', 'full and final settlement', etc.

Accepting the letter, doesn't mean that you accept the conditions attached, acceptance is assumed when you cash the cheque.

If you have doubts, then post here again for assistance.:-)

Regards

 

on*the*case

 

Never Give Up! Never Surrender!

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Wohoo I am NOT impressed! I have been offered £100.44 against over £2.5k of charges. I was not surprised but am still disappointed. Now onto next plan of action....

 

You know the drill :-)

 

The FSA payout averages out at about £164 per account......its a start.

 

I've still not heard a peep from GMAC.

Regards

 

on*the*case

 

Never Give Up! Never Surrender!

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I have been offered £30.64 just rang them and they said it is the FSA that have calculated the refunds on each account ? so will be contacting the FSA and offering to supply them with a calculator, every time one of these bodies steps in they end up with a whacking fee for doing thier job and leave the consumer with crumbs and the company laughing with a slap on the wrist.

Why cant they follow the letter of the law andmake these thiefs payback all they have wrongfully taken from customers, not just the minimum they have broken the contract with thier customers and have made a hundred times more than the fine with thier extortinate fees.

sorry rant over just makes me very annoyed.

jdene

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I telephoned GMAC the other day and emailed them reminding them of their obligation to me, I also mentioned that I will be contacting the FSA IMMEDIATELY on the 1st December should their promised communication not be received at my new address.

 

I have had dealings with their HL Legal dept which sent a joke of a 'statement', a typed page including a £4000+ Asset Management Fee... (I assume it is a thinly disguised early repayment charge). I've asked for precise details, ie when was person appointed, their name, who authorised it, what work was done, copies of ALL paperwork, relevant or not AND the clauses and conditions in the original contract with GMAC which 'authorise' them to charge this to me...

 

If they want a paper trail they have one!

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