Accident at Work

[joesoap]

Don't go on Stars much but tonight's local paper for Sagittarius, Mrs Soaps sign;

 

"You uncovered lies and you're not quite sure how to act now that you have this information. You don't yet have the full story, but you will by Wednesday, so bide your time".

 

Solicitors in the morning and Nursie/HR tomorrow afternoon.....I wonder. Perhaps I should start believing.

[MandM]

Hi Joe and Mrs S,

 

I still think the timescales stink!.

 

Also, they state that they 'de-classify the injury as an industrial injury' which suggests that they DID classify it as one in the first place, although if I recall correctly it was never reported to HSE by them.

 

So, we have an admission that they did consider it to be an industrial injury initially (which they forgot to report). Whether they consider it worth reporting or not isn't relevant anyway - Mrs S was off for more than 3 days I believe so it must have been reported (did we ever get to the bottom of whether they did or or not? )

 

Best of luck with your day - just stick to the facts.#

 

It appears that their line of defence quite clearly is that Mrs S has just made it all up - I think they're taking a huge risk by adopting this line .

 

M

[MandM]

Having shown the letter to colleagues they disagree with HR regarding time scales etc and are willing to corroborate Mrs S's statement if necessary.

And this is a very important bit of info for the Sols. He might ask you names/contact details and choose to speak to those concerned.

 

M

[joesoap]

Hi Joe and Mrs S,

 

I still think the timescales stink!.

 

Also, they state that they 'de-classify the injury as an industrial injury' which suggests that they DID classify it as one in the first place, although if I recall correctly it was never reported to HSE by them.

 

So, we have an admission that they did consider it to be an industrial injury initially (which they forgot to report). Whether they consider it worth reporting or not isn't relevant anyway - Mrs S was off for more than 3 days I believe so it must have been reported (did we ever get to the bottom of whether they did or or not? )

 

Best of luck with your day - just stick to the facts.#

 

It appears that their line of defence quite clearly is that Mrs S has just made it all up - I think they're taking a huge risk by adopting this line .

 

M

 

Hi M

 

Thanks for your comments, very much appreciated. It shows that another pair of eyes is necessary sometimes, I never twigged about the "de - classifying" bit.

 

Anyway, been to the solicitors and he wasn't too helpful to be honest. We know that libel/defamation is difficult to prove and we know that we'd have to open a large can of worms to possibly prove it. I guess that opening a can of worms would be very expensive, OK if you win, devestating if you lose. As a safe bet I reckon he suggested that we start the grieveance procedure which we will do later on. Mrs S still has a few things to say to Personnel this afternoon and we'll go from there.

 

We know, and the solicitor knows that the company are trying to preserve their "Accident Free" status, they rely on big contracts from well known retailers to keep going. I'll update as soon as possible. Got a laugh though, after half an hour the 'phone went (receptionist I guess), he said "OK"; that'll be thirty pounds please!

 

But once again M, thanks for the support.

[MandM]

Hi M

 

Thanks for your comments, very much appreciated. It shows that another pair of eyes is necessary sometimes, I never twigged about the "de - classifying" bit.

 

Anyway, been to the solicitors and he wasn't too helpful to be honest. We know that libel/defamation is difficult to prove and we know that we'd have to open a large can of worms to possibly prove it. I guess that opening a can of worms would be very expensive, OK if you win, devestating if you lose. As a safe bet I reckon he suggested that we start the grieveance procedure which we will do later on. Mrs S still has a few things to say to Personnel this afternoon and we'll go from there.

 

We know, and the solicitor knows that the company are trying to preserve their "Accident Free" status, they rely on big contracts from well known retailers to keep going. I'll update as soon as possible. Got a laugh though, after half an hour the 'phone went (receptionist I guess), he said "OK"; that'll be thirty pounds please!

 

But once again M, thanks for the support.

 

No probs JS,

 

Too true about Sols, never make light hearted conversation with them, it all goes on the bill .

 

Yep, the "de - classifying" bit is yet another little nugget to keep should you need it one day.

 

I'd also make some notes asap on the timescale thing. While it's still in peoples minds. Make some notes, map it out, see who (colleagues) is clear about what on times etc. Again, tuck it away then for when you need it.

 

Best of luck to Mrs S for this afternoon,

 

M

[joesoap]

Not much to report really. Nursie and Hr came, sat down and of course HR asked if she could take notes. We did not disagree with this but I took some as well. She listened to Mrs S' gripes while not showing much in the way of facial expressions. I repeatedly asked her why disciplinary action wasn't taken swiftly, don't know was the answer. We said a few things and I could tell Mrs S was fed up, after all, Senior HR is not going to be impartial is she, there'll all on the same side.

 

Mrs S said over and over again that she was not a liar, of course, HR did not really respond so she hit her with a bombshell. She told them that she was not happy with the nit - picking gripes, times of the accident etc and the fact that the action was a near impossible task, which it isn't so she calmly asked Senior HR if she knew of any similar incidents. Obviously she said no so Mrs S calmly informed her that a colleague had suffered a similar fate not so long back and it was reported. The Team Leaders put it down to a "near miss" which meant that it didn't have to be reported to HSE. How the hell a bump on the head is a near miss is beyond me. Anyway, HR was given the name of the person who had the "near miss" and the names of the Team Leaders. It was the only time I saw her face change, she nearly sh*t.

 

As Mrs S is on the sick with stress HR cannot take any action so will not write regarding any outcome. To be honest, HR was just interested in getting Mrs S back to work asap, possibly to take the disciplinary (which she wont) and move on. Made it quite clear that Mrs S wouldn't be back to work until SHE was good and ready. HR suggested that she could arrange counselling, get lost (words to that effect) was my reply. Counselling has been arranged through our GP. The firms counsellor will not be impartial.

 

Anyway, I guess this will not be concluded until Mrs S goes back to work. If they don't do anything, Mrs S will begin the grieveance procedure when she does return to work. If anything changes or I think of something else or need assistance, I'll update. Many thanks for the assistance so far.

[MandM]

It was the only time I saw her face change, she nearly sh*t

Hi Mr & Mrs S.

That bit gave me a chuckle.

 

Keep us informed as you've said. Looks like stalemate until Mrs S goes back to work then.

Keep any contact diarised and speak soon,

M

[joesoap]

Hi Mr & Mrs S.

That bit gave me a chuckle.

 

Keep us informed as you've said. Looks like stalemate until Mrs S goes back to work then.

Keep any contact diarised and speak soon,

M

 

 

Will do M.

 

I forgot to say that I pointed out to them both that in the written instructions regarding health problems it says that "only OH can refer workers for physiotherapy" (a team manager harrassed Mrs S in seeing a physio) turning to the Nurse at the same time saying "and you are the author of that document". She squirmed a bit!

[joesoap]

Well, Mrs S is still on the sick but received a letter from the nurse asking if she was fit enough to go up and see her. Mrs S is keen to get something sorted and as she did not feel too bad she did go up to see nursie. Although possibly putting it on, she appeared to have changed alliance (she has probably realised she wasn't the best of help at the start of all this) and was quite concerned. Mrs S told her to inform HR that she would like a meeting asap. Mrs S is now waiting for a letter from HR. She is busy putting all her notes together and as already pointed out , there are several issues to be discussed. I think the main one really is "can she go back to work for these people"? Personally, I think not.

[MandM]

Nice to hear from you Mr S. Let's see what that letter brings. And keep plugging away at those notes. Could come in so handy further down the line. Hope things are improving for Mrs S.

 

M

[joesoap]

Fifteen days since Mrs Soap saw the nurse and advised her that she was ready to have a meet with HR. What has she heard......NOTHING!!!!!

What has happened? Well, pay day today. No pay slip received so I looked on - line to see what had gone in. Not a lot.

There's been no contact regarding a meeting, no letter explaining the pay position and as I've already said, no pay slip yet. To say I'm disgusted would be the understatement of the year! Even if Mrs Soap's full pay had run out, what has been paid isn't even the equivalent of four wek's SSP. I'm away for a think and perhaps calm down, not easy. Anyone wanna buy a house?

[MandM]

Fifteen days since Mrs Soap saw the nurse and advised her that she was ready to have a meet with HR. What has she heard......NOTHING!!!!!

What has happened? Well, pay day today. No pay slip received so I looked on - line to see what had gone in. Not a lot.

There's been no contact regarding a meeting, no letter explaining the pay position and as I've already said, no pay slip yet. To say I'm disgusted would be the understatement of the year! Even if Mrs Soap's full pay had run out, what has been paid isn't even the equivalent of four wek's SSP. I'm away for a think and perhaps calm down, not easy. Anyone wanna buy a house?

 

 

mmmm. All a bit frustrating! Is the company suffering a "quiet period" by any chance? Therefore, in their own interests to keep Mrs S off of work?

 

Need to push for that HR meeting I feel.

 

Apart from that, hope you're well.

 

M

[joesoap]

mmmm. All a bit frustrating! Is the company suffering a "quiet period" by any chance? Therefore, in their own interests to keep Mrs S off of work?

 

Need to push for that HR meeting I feel.

 

Apart from that, hope you're well.

 

M

 

Hi M

 

Not too bad thanks, NUFC helping by winning/drawing. Should be back where we belong come May, says he hopefully.

 

Not sure how quiet they are, trying to get in touch with one of her pals. I've texted/phoned the nurse twice already this morning as she's the go - between. Not heard a thing. Not replying, voicemail. The whole business is very frustrating.

[MandM]

Hi M

 

Not too bad thanks, NUFC helping by winning/drawing. Should be back where we belong come May, says he hopefully.

 

Not sure how quiet they are, trying to get in touch with one of her pals. I've texted/phoned the nurse twice already this morning as she's the go - between. Not heard a thing. Not replying, voicemail. The whole business is very frustrating.

 

Just keep plugging away at them. You're entitled to know where you stand.

 

Off the record, would be nice to see the black and white back up there . West Ham myself - but we appreciate nice football and NU have given some good displys in the past - far too big to be out of the top flight.

 

M

[joesoap]

Just keep plugging away at them. You're entitled to know where you stand.

 

Off the record, would be nice to see the black and white back up there . West Ham myself - but we appreciate nice football and NU have given some good displys in the past - far too big to be out of the top flight.

 

M

 

Oh well, end of the day and not a peep from anyone. If still no word by Friday am, Mrs Soap is on the war - path.

 

I hope the new owners don't destroy WHU. Mike Ashley has his faults but looking back, after the silly spending by Shepherd (especially on Owen), he has got the club back on track finance wise; just a pity we were relegated though!

[MandM]

just a pity we were relegated though!

Not for long I feel

[Helford]

Hi all,

 

It's the first time that I have seen/read this thread.

 

 

Back to basics!

 

Question: When the original accident occurred was it reported to the line manager and an entry put in the accident book? Such MUST be available to all staff, the appropriate managers AND the HSE.

 

If in the accident book and a more than 3 day sickness absence then the employer MUST report to RIDDOR. If they have failed to do this then any court in the land will look at your compensation claim favourably.

 

The HSE has a legal right to see all papers relating to this accident.

 

With regard to the circumstances giving rise to this accident. Was this procedure a regular occurance or a one off. If regular, what training and equipment was given, if any. Bottom line, had any Risk Assessment of this procedure been undertaken? The absence of a Risk Assessment for this task will work in your favour with regard to compensation.

 

H & S is my area, employment law not a strength! However, it does strike me that they are on a VERY sticky wicket given their treatment of your good lady. I hope that she is on the road to recovery.

[joesoap]

Not for long I feel

 

Looking good.

 

Hi Helford

 

Everything has been done by the book at our end, accident duly reported etc. Every event has been filed. No assistance from the H & S Executive.

 

Mrs Soap has decided that depending on whether or not there's contact tomorrow, she might just bite the bullet and resign and inform them that she will be filing (is that the right word) for Constructive Dismissal. She just can't move on and someone has to make the first move. We are aware that everything possible should be done to rectify the position but Mrs Soap informed the nurse two and a half weeks ago that she was fit enough to convene a meeting.....Silence from the employers. They are not interested, they are trying to frighten her..........no chance. I'm trying to find a sample letter on Google/elsewhere regarding Constructive Dismissal.

 

Any thoughts?

[elpulpo]

I'd suggest that you send a letter before resigning with an ultimatum of what you require.

CD is just such dodgy territory, don't give them any opportunity to say, "well, if we'd known how she felt, we'd have done something about it". Make sure it says "I want this, that and the other, by this date, or we will hold that you have effectively dismissed me".

[Helford]

Follow elpulpo's advice.

 

Blunt question - Is there actually an entry in the accident book?

[elpulpo]

I've just noticed I'm a Classic Account Holder. How did that happen?

[joesoap]

Follow elpulpo's advice.

 

Blunt question - Is there actually an entry in the accident book?

 

Yes, it was written in the book by a first aider.

 

El Pulpo, thanks for that. We are going to do that. Mrs Soap had actually mentioned that first thing this morning but just got more fed up as the day went on.

[elpulpo]

I read some advice once about CD that struck clear -

"Don't resign with a view to claiming Constructive Dismissal unless you're happy to resign anyway".

[Helford]

Hi,

 

So the designated first aider dealt and put the incident in the accident book, Mrs Soap was then off work for 6 weeks plus (When you started this thread). The employer had 10 days to report this incident to RIDDOR which they failed to do, you notified in their absence.

 

Bottom line the employer has committed a criminal offence and is now trying to say that you are in the wrong! Unbelievable. I have to say it's not looking good for them! Go for it!

[joesoap]

As there was no pay slip or correspondence, had to check on line for her pay that was due today. Full pay has now expired and the amount that was put into the bank didn't even amount to 4 weeks Statutory Sick Pay. She hasn't been off 28 weeks in total yet (even linking two seperate periods). Had a quick read up and if SSP was coming to an end the employer should have sent Mrs Soap a SSP1. They probably don't even know the procedure. Now that we've looked that up, Mrs Soap is now expecting a termination letter!!!