Sale Of Goods Act (buying A Vehicle) - Your Rights

[Mrsmancmonkey]

Hi

Not sure if this helps or this may apply but I know that a finance company are jointly liable for any words or actions that happen within that agreement and as such I you may be able to go down the anteceded negotiations route. I have attached wording my solicitors letters not sure if its any use here as mine was car dealer doing a runner without clearing finance. Good luck with it and sorry if this doesnt help your case

 

 

We refer to your letter xxxx, which is marked “without prejudice”. We do not agree that the contents of this lettere are to be treated as such.

In your letter you have failed to deal with any of the points raised in our previous correspondence to you and in particular no reference has been made as to why the case of Forthright Finance Limited v Ingate does not apply in this situation.

As you will no doubt be aware the principle in this case is that a dealer’s words or actions “relate to” the principle regulated agreement, so as to form part of the antecedent negotiations for that agreement within the meaning of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 56, if they are “all part of one transaction” or part of the same “package”.

In order to avoid our Client taking further action we will need a full explanation from you as to why this case does not apply and also why the definition as contained in Section 56 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not apply. It is still our Client’s position that the part exchange of the Fiat Punto for the Mini financed by Finance Company forms part of one transaction and was part of the package agreed with Motor Dealere, therefore our Client contends that you are vicariously liable for the dealer as a “negotiator” within the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Please can we have your detailed response within 7 days of the date of this letter.

[pebbles55]

are you able to send me a vopy of that letter. Think I may need it!

[jjandbump]

please please can i have a copy of that letter i am desperate to get something firm going now, after the 20th ... yes 20th tme the new car has dieed and needed towing.

 

i have tried to write before but would like to start with the letters from scratch. so if it goes as far as the court i have done everything

[maysula]

Hello Simon,

 

Would you email me a copy of your letter please. I'm having problems with a dealer at the moment - this would be very helpful.

 

Thanks, Dawn

[mas66]

Hello Simon,

 

Would you email me a copy of your letter please. I'm having problems with a dealer at the moment - this would be very helpful.

 

Thanks, Dawn

 

 

Im also in the middle of a car problem and have found the information given by consumer direct (trading standards) very good .. they give good advice and will email you templates of letters you may require.

 

Cheers

 

Mark

[BrookTownsend]

Hi, i am in a similar situation, would you be able to forward on the letter to my email account.

 

[email protected]

 

your help is very much appreciated.

 

kind regards

 

Brook Townsend

 

 

Sale of Goods Act

 

Hi Everyone, just to give you a bit of background on my story before I start with the SOGA!

 

I bought a used Smart car just over three months ago (I know you're all going to tell me that that was the first mistake I made, but hey!) from an independent garage and last weekend it died on me! I got it recovered to my local Merc garage who told me that it needed a new engine and turbo!! - total cost £4000! I only paid £3500 for the car so it is basically written off. I did take out a private warranty with the vehicle (Warranty Direct) but they have refused to pay out because they say that the fault was with the car before the policy was taken out! How did I guess they would say that!! Now, I could persue Warranty Direct at this stage to get them to prove that the fault was already there but this could prove costly for me due to all the "small print" in their policy terms that they could get me on so it seems (in my case anyway) that the SOGA is the way to go.

 

So, over the last week or so I've been swatting up on the Sale of Goods Act and it seems that I am entitled to ask the garage to repair the vehicle or to refund me. It's a bit mind boggling but I think I do know my rights now. Turns out that up until 6 months after the sale of the vehicle, it's up to the dealer to prove that the fault wasn't there when he sold it to me. Can't really see how he would do that so that must be a good thing. It's called the "Reversed Burden of Proof".

 

Now, if you've had the car for more than 6 months then it can be a little more difficult as it is then up to the purchaser to prove that the fault was there when it was bought - but don't be put off by this if you are convinced that you were sold a dudd - it just means that you might have to find an independent mechanic to do a report on the vehicle - the cost of this could then be reclaimed by you from the garage if it turns out that (in the opinion of the independent mechanic) the fault was already there.

 

Anyway, back to my story! The engine is still in my car at the moment so the dealer would have to have it stripped down (at his own expense) if he doesn't agree with me that the car had an inherent problem. If it does go to court (small claims court in my case) and he still can't prove it, I am entitled to ask for a full refund, interest, costs & compensation. So, from his point of view, he's got a difficult decision to make - either pay me back now or risk having to shell a lot more money - especially if he has to have the engine stripped down too.

 

I am also entitled to ask for a replacement car or hire car whilst we are in dispute. If the dealer declines to do this then I can recover any costs incurred for hiring a vehicle and add it to my claim.

 

Now, the main reason for my post is this:

 

I'v got a letter that was put together by myself and a firm of solicitors that outlines my rights and the dealers responsibilities under the Sale of Goods Act. It's basically the first letter you need to send out to the garage - and gives them a defined timeline to which they should respond before further action is taken.

 

If anyone is in the same situation as I am and you would like a copy of the letter PM me with your email address and I can send you the Word file.

 

I'll be sure to keep you updated as to how I get on with my case! and will have available any other letters that I have sent in due course.

 

Simon

[Gingerman]

Hello, I am having a similar problem with a car dealer who refuses to acknowledge or pay for work required to a second hand car. I am now ready to speak to a solicitor and take court action. (Can anyone recommend a solictor with experience in this field)

 

Summary of situation: car is 3 and half years old, has few scratches/faults. Find that CD player don't work, it leaked water in rain etc. When I took this to a specialised garage to get quote, the mechanic there told me that I had a problem with the faulty catalytic converter. This was a problem me and my wife actually brought to the dealer's attention. The 2 salesmen told me it was normal, and it would go away after 15-20 minutes of driving. After 2 months of calling and writing them, I get the problem fixed, but now I am not getting any response from the dealer to reimburse me. Also, they have totally ignored the faulty CD player, and leaking water.

 

Please send me a copy of the letter, or let me know of a decent solicitor.

 

Thanks in advance (and well done for your court success - shame you had to take the long route - I don't want to got this way, but got no choice).

[email protected]

[jjandbump]

We are still batteling with a car we have end less problems with any solicitr you find please let me know i am having real trouble i am preparing my case for the obusman.

[Conniff]

Hello, I am having a similar problem with a car dealer who refuses to acknowledge or pay for work required to a second hand car. I am now ready to speak to a solicitor and take court action. (Can anyone recommend a solictor with experience in this field)

 

Summary of situation: car is 3 and half years old, has few scratches/faults. Find that CD player don't work, it leaked water in rain etc. When I took this to a specialised garage to get quote, the mechanic there told me that I had a problem with the faulty catalytic converter. This was a problem me and my wife actually brought to the dealer's attention. The 2 salesmen told me it was normal, and it would go away after 15-20 minutes of driving. After 2 months of calling and writing them, I get the problem fixed, but now I am not getting any response from the dealer to reimburse me. Also, they have totally ignored the faulty CD player, and leaking water.

 

Please send me a copy of the letter, or let me know of a decent solicitor.

 

Thanks in advance (and well done for your court success - shame you had to take the long route - I don't want to got this way, but got no choice).

[email protected]

 

SOGA

 

Section 14 [2] deals with instances where goods are usable but have some form of defect. Examples include Rogers and Another v Parish (Scarborough) Ltd and Another 1987 where the Court of Appeal held that a series of defects in a Range Rover made it unmerchantable (not of satisfactory quality) even though it was fit to drive.

[jjandbump]

does anyone have any more info on this part of the act that would be fantastic if you could supply it

[CL1411]

Hi All,

 

I am going through the same thing, I bought an Audi A3 for £9.5k 2 weeks ago and took it to Lancaster Audi to have it inspected as warning lights were coming on. Audi advised that in AUgust 07 they sent an invoice to the ex keeper advising it needed a new engine. the ex keeper (a well known high street bank!) then sold it to the car dealer without a new engine!!!

 

My solicitor has sent a letter to the car dealer today advising he has until next tues to either fix it or refund me.

 

Apparantly my sol said that if i want a repair, then its up to the dealer to prove the fault wasnt there-He will have a job as I have an invoice from Audi in Aug 07 advising new engine needed and Audi have told me no new engine has been put in

 

If I want a refund the its up to me to prove that the car was unfit for purpose and my sol said this audi documnet will prove it as well so looks like I have got him but the car dealer still tells me to f&^k off when I try and sort this out without legal action!!

 

The car dealer is currently running up extra damages of £250 per week for my hire car and looks like im going to have a court date and hoepfully take him to the cleaners for being arrogant when he knows I have evidence to prove both ways!!

 

I will keep you all updated on my progress in the next few months, if anyone else is in a similar position to me then I may be able to give you a copy of the letter that car garge has been issued with or do any of you have any advice for me??

[Gingerman]

Sale of Goods Act

 

Hi Everyone, just to give you a bit of background on my story before I start with the SOGA!

 

I bought a used Smart car just over three months ago (I know you're all going to tell me that that was the first mistake I made, but hey!) from an independent garage and last weekend it died on me! I got it recovered to my local Merc garage who told me that it needed a new engine and turbo!! - total cost £4000! I only paid £3500 for the car so it is basically written off. I did take out a private warranty with the vehicle (Warranty Direct) but they have refused to pay out because they say that the fault was with the car before the policy was taken out! How did I guess they would say that!! Now, I could persue Warranty Direct at this stage to get them to prove that the fault was already there but this could prove costly for me due to all the "small print" in their policy terms that they could get me on so it seems (in my case anyway) that the SOGA is the way to go.

 

So, over the last week or so I've been swatting up on the Sale of Goods Act and it seems that I am entitled to ask the garage to repair the vehicle or to refund me. It's a bit mind boggling but I think I do know my rights now. Turns out that up until 6 months after the sale of the vehicle, it's up to the dealer to prove that the fault wasn't there when he sold it to me. Can't really see how he would do that so that must be a good thing. It's called the "Reversed Burden of Proof".

 

Now, if you've had the car for more than 6 months then it can be a little more difficult as it is then up to the purchaser to prove that the fault was there when it was bought - but don't be put off by this if you are convinced that you were sold a dudd - it just means that you might have to find an independent mechanic to do a report on the vehicle - the cost of this could then be reclaimed by you from the garage if it turns out that (in the opinion of the independent mechanic) the fault was already there.

 

Anyway, back to my story! The engine is still in my car at the moment so the dealer would have to have it stripped down (at his own expense) if he doesn't agree with me that the car had an inherent problem. If it does go to court (small claims court in my case) and he still can't prove it, I am entitled to ask for a full refund, interest, costs & compensation. So, from his point of view, he's got a difficult decision to make - either pay me back now or risk having to shell a lot more money - especially if he has to have the engine stripped down too.

 

I am also entitled to ask for a replacement car or hire car whilst we are in dispute. If the dealer declines to do this then I can recover any costs incurred for hiring a vehicle and add it to my claim.

 

Now, the main reason for my post is this:

 

I'v got a letter that was put together by myself and a firm of solicitors that outlines my rights and the dealers responsibilities under the Sale of Goods Act. It's basically the first letter you need to send out to the garage - and gives them a defined timeline to which they should respond before further action is taken.

 

If anyone is in the same situation as I am and you would like a copy of the letter PM me with your email address and I can send you the Word file.

 

I'll be sure to keep you updated as to how I get on with my case! and will have available any other letters that I have sent in due course.

 

Simon

 

 

Simon, can you please send me the details of your solicitor. much appreciated. I am now ready to throttle the car dealer for non-reply (2 months since last correspondence sent by me), so I am presuming that only a court order will get them to listen. Thanks in advance.

[jjandbump]

yes details of solicitir would be good too, i have battled and battled with the garage and finance company and they basicly keep saying Tough.

[Conniff]

It don't look like we are going to hear from Simon any more as this thread is pushing two years old now, so I would suggest all those that have asked for a copy of the letter etc start their own thread with their problem and so that others may assist.

[webbscatering]

Does anyone have a copy of the letter?

[CL1411]

I went through the same problem a few months ago, i have put the letter that my solicitor sent to the car dealer below (you just need to fill in the blanks) Good Luck!!

 

Dear Sir

Re: xxxx(car)

Our Client: XXX

Date of Purchase- XXXXX

We write to advise you that we act on behalf of XXX and we have been instructed to write to you in relation to the above vehicle.

We understand from our client that on the XXXX, he purchased the above vehicle from you for £XXXX. A copy of your sale invoice is attached hereto for your ease of reference. Our client has informed us that since his purchase of the vehicle he has experience significant problems with the car’s XXXXXX. The vehicle has been inspected by XXXX and a long standing engine fault has been identified. Lancaster Audi have further advised our client that the vehicle is unsafe to drive and as such we have advised our client that the vehicle is defective.

TAKE NOTICE that our client hereby formally rejects the vehicle under s.14 (2) and s.14 (3) of the Sale of Goods Act 1979. Due to the fault with the vehicle’s engine you have failed to discharge your implied duty under s. 14 (2) of the Sale of Goods Act that the vehicle be of satisfactory quality and further under s. 14 (3) that the vehicle be reasonably fit for purpose.

You have until XXXXX(allow 7 working days) next to arrange for the engine faults to be corrected or to collect the vehicle from our client’s address and refund the purchase price to him. If our client does not hear from you or the vehicle is not collected by you and the purchase monies refunded within the specified time period then our client will arrange to have the vehicle delivered to your place of business and will commence legal proceedings to recover the purchase price together with interest and costs without further notice.

Yours faithfully

[autopilot]

I have a similar problem but the garage has gone into liquidation.

The cam belt went in the first 2 months and it had been replaced only 3000 miles prior to purchase. An independent report which i had done states it was due to the cam belt not being correctly fitted during that repair.

Under the Sale of Goods Act I have written to American Express (credit card -not charge card) claiming the repair costs but they say that as the car was second hand they are not paying.

I think I should go down the small claims route - what are your opinions.

[CL1411]

I thought that if you bought goods on a credit card then you have some sort of cover for this. If you are rejecting the car under the SoGA 1974 then I dont see the difference in a second hand car.

 

Maybe you should read carefully through your T&C's and see if "buying second hand goods" is excluded from their protection policy!

 

If it isnt then I would ask AA to confirm exactly within the T&C that it states you are not covered because you bought second hand!!

[pomella]

Well done Simon........... I know this is a long shot, I bought a car with the mileage altered, service history book, which was a fraud. Taken car to garage and will need to spend over £600.00 to get up to scratch. Have been in touch with just about every organisation and told my rights are limited because it was a private sale. Do you think I have any hope ???

[webbscatering]

Well done Simon........... I know this is a long shot, I bought a car with the mileage altered, service history book, which was a fraud. Taken car to garage and will need to spend over £600.00 to get up to scratch. Have been in touch with just about every organisation and told my rights are limited because it was a private sale. Do you think I have any hope ???

Hi Pomella, It looks like Simon no longer uses this thread, try starting a new one under your own title and i am sure you will get all the help you need. But back to your question I take it you have proof of tampering because the DVLA take a dim view of this, as for your service history book to be honest is just a selling tool, but there again i might prove the vehicle milage is not correct.

I take an independent garage has shown you evidence of clocking like the numerals do not line up. or do not work at all, or if its digital the pixels are broken. The dash has been removed with evidence of the scratches to screw heads. Check these out because the more muck you throw something will stick, Cheers Kev

[pomella]

Thanks Kev

 

The milaege (according to MOT history) read 135k in 2007 then 62k in Jan 2008. I have informed the DVLA but they are not interested and told me to call Police who can't help either.

 

It just seems people can break the law and tamper with Mileage readings without any consequences......... maybe thats why they do it!!

[webbscatering]

Thanks Kev

 

The milaege (according to MOT history) read 135k in 2007 then 62k in Jan 2008. I have informed the DVLA but they are not interested and told me to call Police who can't help either.

 

It just seems people can break the law and tamper with Mileage readings without any consequences......... maybe thats why they do it!!

 

Try the Trading Standards these are definately the people you should see as their work includes dealing with misdescribed vehicles, mileometers which have been turned back (known as 'clocking'), unroadworthy vehicles (those that would fail an MOT), sub-standard vehicle servicing, traders selling vehicles in residential areas, misleading prices and incorrect credit advertisements. The DVLA are the Vehicle Inspectorates who do the MOT, now there must be something should be doing even if means looking into a complaint.....whats the point in paying your speeding fines:-D

[pomella]

I will try trading Standards again, they did say they would not deal with private sales, maybe I will help someone helpful this time. Will keep you posted........

[Jemms00]

Hi Simon, I tried to PM you but it seems you are over your limit for messages. I am experiencing similar problems so it would be great if you could email a copy of the template to me? Please PM me when you have the time and I'll send you my email. Thanks!

[2008]

Sale of Goods Act

 

Hi Everyone, just to give you a bit of background on my story before I start with the SOGA!

 

I bought a used Smart car just over three months ago (I know you're all going to tell me that that was the first mistake I made, but hey!) from an independent garage and last weekend it died on me! I got it recovered to my local Merc garage who told me that it needed a new engine and turbo!! - total cost £4000! I only paid £3500 for the car so it is basically written off. I did take out a private warranty with the vehicle (Warranty Direct) but they have refused to pay out because they say that the fault was with the car before the policy was taken out! How did I guess they would say that!! Now, I could persue Warranty Direct at this stage to get them to prove that the fault was already there but this could prove costly for me due to all the "small print" in their policy terms that they could get me on so it seems (in my case anyway) that the SOGA is the way to go.

 

So, over the last week or so I've been swatting up on the Sale of Goods Act and it seems that I am entitled to ask the garage to repair the vehicle or to refund me. It's a bit mind boggling but I think I do know my rights now. Turns out that up until 6 months after the sale of the vehicle, it's up to the dealer to prove that the fault wasn't there when he sold it to me. Can't really see how he would do that so that must be a good thing. It's called the "Reversed Burden of Proof".

 

Now, if you've had the car for more than 6 months then it can be a little more difficult as it is then up to the purchaser to prove that the fault was there when it was bought - but don't be put off by this if you are convinced that you were sold a dudd - it just means that you might have to find an independent mechanic to do a report on the vehicle - the cost of this could then be reclaimed by you from the garage if it turns out that (in the opinion of the independent mechanic) the fault was already there.

 

Anyway, back to my story! The engine is still in my car at the moment so the dealer would have to have it stripped down (at his own expense) if he doesn't agree with me that the car had an inherent problem. If it does go to court (small claims court in my case) and he still can't prove it, I am entitled to ask for a full refund, interest, costs & compensation. So, from his point of view, he's got a difficult decision to make - either pay me back now or risk having to shell a lot more money - especially if he has to have the engine stripped down too.

 

I am also entitled to ask for a replacement car or hire car whilst we are in dispute. If the dealer declines to do this then I can recover any costs incurred for hiring a vehicle and add it to my claim.

 

Now, the main reason for my post is this:

 

I'v got a letter that was put together by myself and a firm of solicitors that outlines my rights and the dealers responsibilities under the Sale of Goods Act. It's basically the first letter you need to send out to the garage - and gives them a defined timeline to which they should respond before further action is taken.

 

If anyone is in the same situation as I am and you would like a copy of the letter PM me with your email address and I can send you the Word file.

 

I'll be sure to keep you updated as to how I get on with my case! and will have available any other letters that I have sent in due course.

 

Simon

kl